Muscling versus flabby cattle

[DiamondSCattleCo]

CAN WE SAY LIMOUSIN, ROMAGNOLAS, MURRAY GRAYS, CHAROLAIS WILL ALL BENEFIT THE BEEF INDUSTRY MORE THAN THE 3% BREED :tiphat:

Actually I'd say that NONE of the breeds are particularly benefitting the industry. Even Limo was sitting at 38% acceptable for rib eye. That tells me the current quest for low BW, pencil gutted, framier pieces of junk is really hurting our industry. Cattlemen need to start looking at those old broad backed, deep ribbed animals first, and worrying a little less about BW and EPD numbers.

Rod

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

oops, double post

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Limousin cattle along with some other breeds have went down hill in the quest for homo black and polled animals. Most black Limousin cattle in the US have bred purebred to puebred to get homo black cattle until they have really dropped the limousin precentage so low they are not even purebred.

 

[jfranseen]

Red Bull Breeder,
I agree with you that some of the Purebreed Limousin cattle have become watered down and lost the ability to muscle that has made the breed popular. The Lim-Flex craze has me a bit worried. Not that I have not seen some great Lim-Flex cattle. It seems to me a Lim-Flex animal is the perfect animal to harvest, ie Limousin muscle complimenting Angus quality grade genetics. It worried me they are lacking the muscle the breed is known for. We use bulls that still transmit breed character to their progeny. We like them to be polled, but black or red is not too much of a concern. When they are hanging on the rail nobody knows what color of hide they have. One quick question. How did they get fullbloods to be polled or homo polled? We don't use any fullbloods now, but every year I think I would like to find one that would work in our herd.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

One cow called Hy Country Polled Wonder. I have read there have been polled ones in France but polled is considered a genetic defect in France and cannot be entered into the herd book. And now there is a few new outcross bloodlines that are being used.

 

[ANAZAZI]

muscled cattle do get my vote rather than flabby!

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I would like to see the a list of the limi sires they used to come up with 38% . I would be willing to guess the number is because of black purebreds, and the lower limi precentages in them.

 

[Frankie]

Table 2. Breed differences in ribeye (RE) EPD Breed RE EPD for 15.3-sq.-in. ribeye Sires qualifying*
Hereford +0.51 <1%
Angus +0.53 3%
Simmental +0.2 9%
Gelbvieh +0.27 2%
Charolais +0.23 28%
Limousin +0.16 38%
*Based on MARC Across-breed EPD analysis Source: Duane Wulf, South Dakota State University

CAN WE SAY LIMOUSIN, ROMAGNOLAS, MURRAY GRAYS, CHAROLAIS WILL ALL BENEFIT THE BEEF INDUSTRY MORE THAN THE 3% BREED

Piedmontese aren't even on the list. So we can say they offer no benefit at all to the beef industry.

I don't know where you got this article, or if you just made it up, but currently about 10% of Angus sires meets that criteria. And even a higher percentage of younger sires, so we're working on it. Unlike your Piedmontese claims, I've never claimed Angus are the perfect breed...yet. But if you take the top 5-10 qualities that keep a cattleman in business, you'll find Angus in the top 3-4 breeds of each qualaity. Do you know that the same traits that make an animal double muscled also affects the skeletal growth? A double muscled animal will have about 10% less bone to carry all that extra weight around the pasture. How long do you think they will hold up under normal grazing conditions? Do you know they don't use oxygen as well as normal muscled breeds and have more respiratory problems? Do you know the abortion rate for double muscled breeds is higher in hot weather than normal muscled breeds?

Efficiently produced quality meat is the Angus goal. If you're going to produce Standard, you better have all the muscle you can possibly get out there.

 

[Frankie]

[
So even if the limis have stayed the same they have 4 times the bulls to your angus mere 10% you claim. Any proff the numbers have moved from 3% to 10% for angus?

Proof? Proof? ROTL! You, who never, ever post a link, as me for Proof? Too funny.

Now about the age of the cows have a 17 year old still producing she had twins at 14. we just caried off a 12 year old yesterday. Nothing wrong with her just retaning some heifers and dont have room for everything. Now what I am producing is beef selling bulls to limi and angus breeders for the pied cross. And for the record that dont net standard more of them grade prime than your straight angus or angus cross.

So you say. Got any proof? :lol: :lol: Your own breed association said Piedmontese produce Select or Standard beef. Are you calling them a liar?

Now as the article states 15.9 inch ribeyes as yerlings is what is needed. For the record what percent if any of your bulls tested meet that criteria. I do believe I HAVE ENOUGH ENFO OF YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS TO GET THE INFO WHETHER YOU CARE TO POST IT OR NOT.

No, the article says

In order to produce such a carcass using black baldy cows, as an example, considering that average genetics in this crossbred produces a ribeye size of 12.3 sq. in., [Meat Animal Research Center (MARC) data — Table 1], Wulf explains you need to use a bull on these cows that has a yearling ultrasound scan of at least 15.9 sq. in.

So it depends on your cow herd.

I will tell you not post my personal information on this board. I don't mind complaining to Macon again. That's probably one of the things that got you kicked off the board last time.

 

[redfornow]

One more thing based on your angus going from 3% in 2001 to 10 % in 2008 it will only take the angus breed 28 more years to catch the limis if the limis stay the same. Seems the are moving 1% a year. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

If you can believe any of these numbers?? :help:
And I doubt you can, to be honest.

Based totally on the assumed growth from 2001-2008 of 3% to 10%
The angus bred would only need roughly a decade of continued growth at the mythical percentages that have been presented by both sides to catch up the the made up date? :clap:

To to say these are rough numbers would be and understandment. :dunce:

 

[BRG]

I believe the REA is very important as well. This is why we try to select bulls that are above average for REA for our seedstock program. I see way to many people and associations looking at the actual REA sizes where they should be looking at square inches of REA per hundred pounds of body weight. Because a bull that weighs 1400 lbs is behind if it has a measurement of a 16 inch REA while a bull that weighs 1200 lbs is way ahead if it measured a 16 inch REA. 1.10 sq. inchers per hundred pounds is what they have told me we should be shooting for. Nearly all of my herdsires have been ultrasounded and the ones that have been will average out at 1.20 square inches per hundred pounds. With actual measurements of 20.5, 16, 16.5, 16.5, and 11.5. We pay attention to this because nearly all of our customers breed Red Angus to Red Angus and do not crossbreed. So we need to have some power to them in order to work for the packer. The industry has way to many yield grade 4's or higher.

 

[smnherf]

I believe the REA is very important as well. This is why we try to select bulls that are above average for REA for our seedstock program. I see way to many people and associations looking at the actual REA sizes where they should be looking at square inches of REA per hundred pounds of body weight. Because a bull that weighs 1400 lbs is behind if it has a measurement of a 16 inch REA while a bull that weighs 1200 lbs is way ahead if it measured a 16 inch REA. 1.10 sq. inchers per hundred pounds is what they have told me we should be shooting for. Nearly all of my herdsires have been ultrasounded and the ones that have been will average out at 1.20 square inches per hundred pounds. With actual measurements of 20.5, 16, 16.5, 16.5, and 11.5. We pay attention to this because nearly all of our customers breed Red Angus to Red Angus and do not crossbreed. So we need to have some power to them in order to work for the packer. The industry has way to many yield grade 4's or higher.

I agree with you BRG. REA is one of the most misrepresented figures listed in any catalog. Unless you know the scan weight of the bull, the REA number by itself is pretty irrelevant as like you say a 1500 lb bull witha 15" REA isn't really very good, whereas a 1200 lb bull with a 14" REA is pretty good.

I am becoming more and more concerned with the use of REA epds. They don't value REA/cwt and by doing this I believe we tend to select for larger and larger cattle. We really aren't changing the actual carcass composition in terms of having a higher % of the weight of the carcass as REA, only making the entire package bigger. REA/cwt addresses that issue.

The average on the bulls I am selling this year is 1.18 REA/cwt.

I also know Dr Wolf fairly well, He was the meats judging coach and his wife was on the same livestock judging team I was on at SDSU. He is a good guy, but he is still pretty beholden to his Limi roots too. He is using 2000 data. I know my cattle have changed quite a bit from then. Also, I don't think the beef industry needs every steer to have 14.1" ribeyes. There is a demand for some smaller ones too. I know people that when they went to buy smaller RE for a special event, they actually were charged more for the smaller ones than the big ones. The consumer is the ultimate source for out money and we need to make sure we aren't overshooting what the market is telling us.

At some point in the quest for more and more REA aren't we in danger of going too far. Cutability is more than just REA, BF is a major contributer too.

 

[BRG]

SMN,

Exactly. I am not sure about other breeds, but the Red Angus Association ratios off of size only and not REA/cwt. I think they should use REA/cwt somehow. Because a bull that has a 14 inch REA may ratio over 100 in alot of different herds, but the bull may weigh 1500 lbs. Then the EPDs are made off of this ratio. That does not give you an accurate EPD. The ratio says it should increase the EPD and offsprings REA, but in reality it actually takes you backward. To me, if a bull is under 1 square inch of REA/cwt it should be under 100 ratio.

 

[Frankie]

What ever floats your boat I will be sure and not post your name. Very insecure about them tests to say the least. I will not post your name by the bull tests but I can post the test info. See all I have to do is have one person with a bull in them tests email me with the complete test then post it. I am quite sure everyone can read the numbers and dicypher the info. I will be sure and black out your name off the test and leave the results intact. That way you will suffer no humiliation or harm.

One more thing I believe in being born again and life after death. So please dont worry on my part about what when or where because I will live again. Just like the past. :nod:

It's no secret that we test bulls at OBI and have for a lot of years. So a good Christian person like you would, of course, want to be fair and post links to their bull tests for comparison. We have some good ones and we have some not so good ones, but none of them are tested by "Frankie".

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/exten/OBI/

Do you realize how pitiful you are? You come on this board under a new name. it only takes a few posts before we know who you are. You bash Angus; I ojbect. Again and again you can't make your case, so you attack me personally. You've offered up my phone number, threatened to come to my house, and to disrupt a sale you thought I would attend. All of these things have contributed to you being banned from these boards. And now you're doing it again. No, if God looks into your hate filled heart, he can't be happy with His work. Get over it. Angus is the most popular, accepted breed of cattle in the US. Actions speak louder than words. Get to work on your breed and leave mine alone.

 

[Frankie]

What ever floats your boat I will be sure and not post your name. Very insecure about them tests to say the least. I will not post your name by the bull tests but I can post the test info. See all I have to do is have one person with a bull in them tests email me with the complete test then post it. I am quite sure everyone can read the numbers and dicypher the info. I will be sure and black out your name off the test and leave the results intact. That way you will suffer no humiliation or harm.

One more thing I believe in being born again and life after death. So please dont worry on my part about what when or where because I will live again. Just like the past. :nod:

It's no secret that we test bulls at OBI and have for a lot of years. So a good Christian person like you would, of course, want to be fair and post links to their bull tests for comparison. We have some good ones and we have some not so good ones, but none of them are tested by "Frankie".

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/exten/OBI/

Do you realize how pitiful you are? You come on this board under a new name. it only takes a few posts before we know who you are. You bash Angus; I object. Again and again you can't make your case, so you attack me personally. You've offered up my phone number, threatened to come to my house, and to disrupt a sale you thought I would attend. All of these things have contributed to you being banned from these boards. And now you're doing it again. Isn't that one definition of insantity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? No, if God looks into your hate filled heart, he can't be happy with His work. Get over it. Angus is the most popular, accepted breed of cattle in the US. Actions speak louder than words. Get to work on your breed and leave mine alone.