Murray Grey Bull Pics.

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hrbelgians

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I actually was planning on moving him after this season, now seeing his offspring I have second thoughts?

View attachment 2
Murray Grey Bull,
Sired by Ballee Thumbs Up and out of a cow called Ladon Fern, which was pictured recently in one of the favorite cow topics.
Sorry about the background. I only have one open sky direction on my place and it is to the west, which puts the light on the wrong side of me.

View attachment 1

Any opinions? Feel free to pass them!
 

OK Jeanne

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Here's a photo of your bull's sire, Ballee Thumbs Up:

thumbsup2.jpg




Here's his dam, LaDon Fern, taken a few years ago when she was in our fall calving group:



1819fern_fancy.jpg



And here she is with her spring 08 heifer calf. She's 13 yrs old now, but still doing well:

Fern_08Heifer.jpg
 

DOC HARRIS

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hrbelgians":3t34n43j said:
I actually was planning on moving him after this season, now seeing his offspring I have second thoughts?

View attachment 2
Murray Grey Bull,
Sired by Ballee Thumbs Up and out of a cow called Ladon Fern, which was pictured recently in one of the favorite cow topics.
Sorry about the background. I only have one open sky direction on my place and it is to the west, which puts the light on the wrong side of me.

View attachment 1

Any opinions? Feel free to pass them!
hrbelgians-

Wa-ay better than average beef bull! These are up-and-coming cattle, and Murray Grey's are an up and coming breed!

DOC HARRIS
 
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hrbelgians

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Hey M. Sarria, thanks and anything is possible when the time is right!

Ok Jeanne, Thanks for the additional photos!!!

Thanks for the compliment on the bull Doc, and yes I am very excited about the Murray breed and can't believe the calves I am getting compared to what I used to have. My opinion of course.
 

trin

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what will a murray gray bull add to your herd if you was to advice a person to use a murray grey bull
 

Wisteria Farms

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trin":3t5jb350 said:
what will a murray gray bull add to your herd if you was to advice a person to use a murray grey bull
Depends on WHICH Murray Grey Bull you use....as with any breed...
and depends on what you're putting him on...
Here is a page I really like from the NorthWest Murray Grey Assn website:
http://www.murraygreybeef.com/Information.htm
 

OK Jeanne

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If you are selling direct-market beef, the MG will give you, as a breed, the genetic predisposition for tenderness. If you are in
the commercial system and retain ownership, take a look at this year's calgary carcass contest---below are the top 11
picks by the Judges. Murray Greys are historically in the top winners of this contest; either number 1 or well represented in
the top group.

For more info on the breed:
http://www.murraygrey.org

For info at the website of the founding ranch of the breed in Australia, see:
http://www.michaelong.com.au/


----------------------------------------------------



SCHERING PLOUGH ANIMAL HEALTH CALGARY STAMPEDE 2008
STEER CARCASS COMPETITION
XL BEEF CALGARY
Plant Stampede Sterling Silver Carcass WtSc Fat Fat REA REA Marbling Marbling FatCover FatColor RibEye Muscle Marbling
Ranking Tag Tag Exhibitor Breed Score Live Wt Wt Lbs Score mm Score sq cm Score Score Color Score Texture
1 25 137 CAMERON SCHMALTZ MURRAY GREY 82 1209 745 13 8 6 86 22 AAA60 27 4 4 3 2 1
2 10 189 STAN GILCHRIST SIMMENTAL 81 1287 799 13 9 5 96 18 AAA80 29 4 4 2 3 3
3 52 165 BRITTANY DOWLING SPECKLE PARK 80 1128 661.2 13 8 6 83 22 AAA30 24 4 4 3 2 2
4 4 103 BILL LAMPORT HEREFORD 77 1160 683.8 13 9 5 89 22 AAA20 23 4 4 2 2 2
5 26 126 FRASER'S MURRAY GREY MARKET HEIFER 77 1141 671 13 9 5 89 22 AAA20 23 4 4 2 2 2
6 35 153 CIRLCE K ANGUS SIMMENTAL 76 1298 771.8 13 9 5 91 18 AAA40 25 4 4 2 3 2
7 36 148 MEGAN BOND MURRAY GREY 76 1104 655.2 13 9 5 94 18 AAA40 25 4 4 2 3 2
8 1 195 NATHAN C. JENSEN OPEN 76 1023 641 10 5 9 97 18 AAA30 24 3 4 2 3 3
9 33 133 KEVIN REE MURRAY GREY 76 1138 684.8 13 9 5 92 18 AAA30 24 4 4 2 3 3
10 47 147 BRUCE KNIGHT MURRAY GREY 76 1186 743 13 7 7 99 18 AAA10 22 4 4 2 3 3
11 14 136 BRUCE KNIGHT MURRAY GREY 73 1283 791.4 13 12 2 78 18 AAA50 26 4 4 2 2 2
Judges:
Fred Taylor
Saem Taj
Lana Bakken XL BEEF CALGARY 1
 

3waycross

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Well, I guess I'll start the poop storm here;

I don't like this Bull

He's a nice bull starting at his nose and working back to his flank, and he is sure enough thick BUT; when you get to his flank, to me that's where the trouble starts.

Maybe it's the picture , actually it's not, but isn't he extremely high flanked. There is nothing about his but that I like, he slopes funny from his hooks to his pins and he doesn't carry his muscle down into his hock well at all.

The first time I saw him I got this impression so I thought let's see what he throws, and sorry to say his calves for the most part are the same way. What I can't figure out is why nobody else sees this; Doc Harris. I have seen you destroy better bulls here and you refer to him as a fine example of a BEEF bull.
Take a look at his calves they look just like him. I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings here just giving my honest assesment. What is glaring to me is how much different his rear end is compared to his father, and how much he doesn't pass along that genetic package.
Now if this is just a matter of how him and the calves are posed I would sure be willing to see some other BETTER pictures.
 
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hrbelgians

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Wisteria Farms":2krff6ud said:
hrbelgians":2krff6ud said:
Hey M. Sarria, thanks and anything is possible when the time is right!
Hey now....I seem to recall you asking if I wanted to trade....haha.

Don't lose any sleep Wisteria, I was not really campaining to sell!

Trin,
I don't know if I can actually answer your question so, I will try to explain my thoughts in my own simple little fashion.
I had to start somewhere myself and I was looking for something that was easy calving, a little smaller framed for efficiency, (as I am total forage),very strong as for reproduction, a good temperment, a little more heat tolerant than my angus, something that had a good resale value or demand for offspring, last but not least I just wanted something a little different than the main stream for whatever reason, good or bad thats just me.

I did a lot of research and thought this breed had lots of things to offer. However I do realize, I am not in a position to belittle any other breed, nor would I want to because I would bet lots of other breeds out there also have these things to offer within their breed!
My personal experience of what I gained is, extremely efficient, calving is a breese, temperment is very good, and already have people watching my cattle and wanting to buy offspring!


3way, You are not hurting my feelings, if those are your feelings and opinions I will respect you for it!
Question; what angle of picture would you like to see of him and or the offspring? I don't know if I have anything but will check.
Thanks for your opinion!
 

DOC HARRIS

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3waycross":2bwq5x27 said:
Well, I guess I'll start the poop storm here;

I don't like this Bull

He's a nice bull starting at his nose and working back to his flank, and he is sure enough thick BUT; when you get to his flank, to me that's where the trouble starts.

Maybe it's the picture , actually it's not, but isn't he extremely high flanked. There is nothing about his but that I like, he slopes funny from his hooks to his pins and he doesn't carry his muscle down into his hock well at all.

The first time I saw him I got this impression so I thought let's see what he throws, and sorry to say his calves for the most part are the same way. What I can't figure out is why nobody else sees this; Doc Harris. I have seen you destroy better bulls here and you refer to him as a fine example of a BEEF bull.
Take a look at his calves they look just like him. I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings here just giving my honest assesment. What is glaring to me is how much different his rear end is compared to his father, and how much he doesn't pass along that genetic package.
Now if this is just a matter of how him and the calves are posed I would sure be willing to see some other BETTER pictures.
3waycross-

Your assessment of my previous post on this bull is absolutely CORRECT!

This is a good example of my doing something without giving it enough thought in advance. It has been my intent and objective on these Forums to be as sincere and correct in my obvservations as possible - AND - I really 'sucked gas" on the analysis of this bull!

In order to 'save face' and make a Mickey Mouse excuse for my mistake, I will try to give a half-baked reason for my "TOO QUICK" reply concerning this bull. Here goes: when I wrote that thread regarding the bull, I was in a hurry to take my wife shopping :roll: - she was waiting in the car for me :help: - the cat was giving me a hassle :???: - the phone was ringing - :? somebody was at the door :nod: , and - and - and - oh, what the hey! It was just a reply without giving the picture enough consideration, which goes against my principles! I apologize for violating my own rules in judging cattle!

I'll try again..

(It is now 35 minutes later than the above posting :tiphat: ). Here is my considered opinion: 3way - Your discernment is exceeded only by your sagacity! You are absolutely right on every point! The bull has a good head and crest, but he is too 'open shouldered and rough', he is fairly deep in the heartgirth, but appears to lack sufficient leg bone size for a bull of his stature (can't see his cannon bones for the grass he is in), he is deep-bodied but too short-rumped in proportion - and THAT is where his real trouble begins. He slopes off very much in his rump (from hooks to pins) lacks sufficient development for a bull his age in his top round area and adjacent to his tail setting, and certainly lacks hindquarter musculinity in his lower rounds, not carrying down adequately to his hock. He IS cut up in his flank, HOWEVER, that perception MAY be caused by the rather 'bulging' grass-belly he carries! His scrotal size indicates a reasonable high fertility score, but the EPD would have to verify that opinion. BUT, upon careful observation, he is bordering on being a "funnel butt", and for a Murray Grey that is an unacceptable characteristic. I will accede to this caveat - IF he is breeding cows, as is possible as indicated by the female in the background, I will cut him some slack on conditioning. (He DOES look tired, doesn't he? Maybe 'exhausted' would be a better word!) But, genetically and phenotypically, he really leaves a lot to be desired insofar as OPTIMAL breeding seedstock is concerned.

For "Herd Improvement" in Sire Selection choices, one must be very particular and picky, paying attention to seeming minor characteristics, but those traits WILL be manifest in his progeny, and perfection is not TOO good for a herd bull!

I hope that I have redeemed myself in your eyes, 3waycross, as you certainly did nail THIS guy with your observations! Well done!

The bottom line in this exercise is this: One should NOT judge any animal by ONE PICTURE! Or ANY bunch of pictures! You should see the animal, see the progeny, and see the DAM.

DOC HARRIS
 
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hrbelgians

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Thanks for the replies!!
Doc,
Even your second go around doesn't hurt my feelings and I don't think that was your intention.

I posted him on here so I could potentionally learn something!

Now you guys will think I am trying to come back and act like a [email protected], but this is exactly why I wanted to post a picture of him! I have questioned his rump for a while and wanted more opinions. He does however have more bone to him than this picture shows. The problem is this is about all I have even close to decent at this point. I can try and get some more photos of his calves later and evaluate again, but I feel some of his calves are better than what you can see in the photos I posted.

Yes he is one fertile dude!

Oh by the way Doc, how old is he? Did you check or did you guess?

Yes, he is breeding right now and in this particular photo, he just got done taking care of the in-heat culprit which is standing 6" in front of his nose, you just can't see her! So I would say you read him pretty well as he was still tying to get his next breath!!
 

Jovid

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OK Jeanne":25pgj1lg said:
If you are selling direct-market beef, the MG will give you, as a breed, the genetic predisposition for tenderness. If you are in
the commercial system and retain ownership, take a look at this year's calgary carcass contest---below are the top 11
picks by the Judges. Murray Greys are historically in the top winners of this contest; either number 1 or well represented in
the top group.

For more info on the breed:
http://www.murraygrey.org

For info at the website of the founding ranch of the breed in Australia, see:
http://www.michaelong.com.au/


----------------------------------------------------



SCHERING PLOUGH ANIMAL HEALTH CALGARY STAMPEDE 2008
STEER CARCASS COMPETITION
XL BEEF CALGARY
Plant Stampede Sterling Silver Carcass WtSc Fat Fat REA REA Marbling Marbling FatCover FatColor RibEye Muscle Marbling
Ranking Tag Tag Exhibitor Breed Score Live Wt Wt Lbs Score mm Score sq cm Score Score Color Score Texture
1 25 137 CAMERON SCHMALTZ MURRAY GREY 82 1209 745 13 8 6 86 22 AAA60 27 4 4 3 2 1
2 10 189 STAN GILCHRIST SIMMENTAL 81 1287 799 13 9 5 96 18 AAA80 29 4 4 2 3 3
3 52 165 BRITTANY DOWLING SPECKLE PARK 80 1128 661.2 13 8 6 83 22 AAA30 24 4 4 3 2 2
4 4 103 BILL LAMPORT HEREFORD 77 1160 683.8 13 9 5 89 22 AAA20 23 4 4 2 2 2
5 26 126 FRASER'S MURRAY GREY MARKET HEIFER 77 1141 671 13 9 5 89 22 AAA20 23 4 4 2 2 2
6 35 153 CIRLCE K ANGUS SIMMENTAL 76 1298 771.8 13 9 5 91 18 AAA40 25 4 4 2 3 2
7 36 148 MEGAN BOND MURRAY GREY 76 1104 655.2 13 9 5 94 18 AAA40 25 4 4 2 3 2
8 1 195 NATHAN C. JENSEN OPEN 76 1023 641 10 5 9 97 18 AAA30 24 3 4 2 3 3
9 33 133 KEVIN REE MURRAY GREY 76 1138 684.8 13 9 5 92 18 AAA30 24 4 4 2 3 3
10 47 147 BRUCE KNIGHT MURRAY GREY 76 1186 743 13 7 7 99 18 AAA10 22 4 4 2 3 3
11 14 136 BRUCE KNIGHT MURRAY GREY 73 1283 791.4 13 12 2 78 18 AAA50 26 4 4 2 2 2
Judges:
Fred Taylor
Saem Taj
Lana Bakken XL BEEF CALGARY 1

I have a couple of questions.

How many different breeds of steers were represented?

How many total steers?

If i'm reading the resuts correctly the # 1 steer only hung at 62 % and only had a 13 in rib eye.
Is that the average for Murray Grey?
 

3waycross

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I agree with Doc on the shoulders also but I figured I was doing enough damage with my first post. Having said that . IF; you were breeding for "terminal" on some cows that complimented his faults and he wasn't being bred to heifers he sure ain't the worst bull I have seen here!
Good luck with him .
 

OK Jeanne

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[quote

I have a couple of questions.

How many different breeds of steers were represented?

How many total steers?

If i'm reading the resuts correctly the # 1 steer only hung at 62 % and only had a 13 in rib eye.
Is that the average for Murray Grey?[/quote]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Jovid:

I believe the breeds were identified in the text. I "pasted" that info from a pdf that was forwarded to me by one of the
Canadian MGIA members. I don't know how many animals were entered.....and I don't know the age of the animals/rules about age of the entries. I suspect all that info is on the web somewhere.

One of the bulls we have used in the past had a 18.5 inch ribeye. Another one we have used, that is pictured on the
opening page of our farm website (OK Major) had a 20 inch ribeye size. I believe their grown weight was around 1900 to 2100
depending on quality/quantity of forage. Some Murray breeders want larger bulls & cows and a few want smaller. I think
we are probably right in the mid-range.
 
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hrbelgians

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3waycross":2fnd5uy2 said:
I agree with Doc on the shoulders also but I figured I was doing enough damage with my first post. Having said that . IF; you were breeding for "terminal" on some cows that complimented his faults and he wasn't being bred to heifers he sure ain't the worst bull I have seen here!
Good luck with him .

I want to thank everyone again for the replies, positive and negative as well.

3waycross,
Is your concern as for not using him on heifers, because of his shoulder?? Leading to birth problems?

Doc,
Check your P.M.
 

3waycross

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Yes for sure the shoulders. Short neck and coarse shulders all hitting the birth canan at the same time can cause as many or more problems as excessive weight.
 
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hrbelgians

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3waycross":p81xo53v said:
Yes for sure the shoulders. Short neck and coarse shulders all hitting the birth canan at the same time can cause as many or more problems as excessive weight.

Yep I understand.
Just for the records.
I did use him on 6 heifers.
Here is what happened this year with the heifers when calving. They had almost no labor at all, simply layed down, squirted them out and went back to eating grass. In less than 1 hr start to finish the calves had sucked and were on the move around the pasture, I was impressed.

So I guess I have to expose my stupidity, because this year he has bred 12 heifers??
 

3waycross

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What did the calves weigh. If they were 65 to 70 lbs then the shoulders are not a huge problem. The problems start when the calves get to a marginal size for birth weight and have structural issues to go along with the weight.

What has been a problem for us may not be a problem for you. Remember also 1/2 of every calf is the mother also.

I am a big believer that calving ease along with a lot of other issues is kinda like Baseball, it's not the extrodinary events that you need to breed for it's the averages. That's why people will tell you that a coarse shouldered bull is not great for calving ease. Because the average or the odds say that it will be a problem.

The other thing is like I said if your cows compliment his weaknesses then it mitigates some of the problem. Keep in mind that what he brings to the table is not just there for one generation. If at some point you go to another bull with the same issues it adds to what is already there, in Genotype and phenotype.

We had a lot of pulls out of a Gelbvieh bull that was throwing 80 lb calves and had coarse shoulders. Which is one of the main reasons his dtrs are being bred to a Red Angus bull with very good shoulders and it will be for sure an issue when looking at bulls in the future. For the record his first crop of dtrs were bred to a blk angus bull that was not necessarily a calving ease bull but the calves were structurally like the angus bull and they did what your heifers did laid down and spit them out. A heifer from another ranch bred to the same bull had to be pulled.

I don't know if any of this matters it's just what we have learned and dealt with.
 
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