Moving cattle/calm or hyper?

[herofan]

I didn't want to hijack the "sticks" thread by going in a totally different direction, but it did cause me to think about something.

I'll say up front that I have never managed a large herd, probably never more than 20. Whenever we tried to move cattle; however, I was always taught by my father and grandfather to be calm around them. For example, if the herd is in the field and we wanted them to go through an opening or the barn, two or three of us will calmly walk around them, and slowly start walking toward them and maybe wave our arms a bit. They, in turn, will usually start walking slowly away from us and in the direction we want. If we have one a little wild, calmness certainly woks best with it. I try to not even raise a voice.

On the other hand, I've noticed when cattle are unloaded at the sale barn, as soon as it steps off the truck, the workers start warping it with a stick until it goes in the correct pen. Often, it doesn't even seem necessary, it just seems part of the workers routine. Even if the cow heads in the right direction, they have to casually get in at least one good hit with their stick. What's with that?

I remember one time a neighbor's cow got out on us, and it was the wildest thing i had ever seen. It would run through a fence or gate like it was made of thread. We finally got it in a barn and the neighbors came to get it. They backed their trailer to the barn and got in there acting all wild; the cow almost ran through the barn wall. My dad told them to let him try by himself. To be honest, after seeing how the cow had acted, I even assumed he would have no luck, and probably get trampled in the process; however, he got a gate in his hand, remained very calm, and slowly walked the cow on the trailer. Sure, it took a few minutes, but he got the job done without tearing the barn down with the cow loose again.

I've been asked a few times over the years to help someone with their cows, and the first thing they do is grab a stick and start yelling, Hyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

This has nothing to do with feeling it is cruel to them, but being calm was always just more effective for us. Anyone else?

 

[Hook]

There's a time for both. Usually calm handling pays off with calm easy going cows and calves. But sometimes a stick, a shout, a hotshot is needed to get them going where you want or keeping them from goin where you don't. The trick is figurin out when and how to use both.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Slow and steady, remain calm, never yell, seldom make any noise at all. That's how I do it and I prefer little, if any, help.

 

[Alan]

Crazy Cowboys makes crazy cows, plain and simple. If I'm moving a calf or calves not use to being moved I make sure I bunch the herd before I start moving them, calmly. The only time I have real trouble is trying to get a weakling calf or young cow up the alley and through the chute, I learned here, to pen the herd in the working pen open the alley and chute all the way and walk away. They only have one way out and figure it out every time. I do this two or three times a year, older cows will stand in the alley waiting for me to get to the chute to open it. They will usually have a few youngsters follow them through. I haven't touched my hot shot in years.

 

[Putangitangi]

We/I do it calmly whenever possible and have taught my previously-louder partner the same. The cows are far calmer than they used to be. It upsets me seeing wild, violent behavior at sale yards. It's unnecessary, probably taught by men who are actually afraid of the animals to their younger counterparts, who just carry it on "because that's the way to do it".

Sometimes, on days I should probably have stayed home with a book, I shout at mine when they play up and won't go where I want them. Often I'll leave the gate for them to find later and go and find that book and a glass of wine. Shouting at them only upsets both sides and rarely achieves much.

 

[bigbull338]

when i work cattle i work them them with out yelling or rushing.my beefmasters and their calves pen pretty easy.working cattle calmly and quietly works real good.my dad would work them by yelling and making them do what he wanted.

 

[Nesikep]

Quietly, and ALONE for me, unless I have an expanse of area where I know they'll scatter, in which case I'll tell my parents to JUST STAND THERE. I have a few halterbroke girls, I'll usually put the halter on one and lead her where I want the others to go, they usually follow pretty well. This year I sorted out all the calves myself, I penned them all into a small pen, and just let the cows out one by one.. By the time I had about 3 cows left I run them into the crowding pen first so if a calf gets in, I have a second chance to sort them out and don't have to do it all over again.

It chafes my arse as well when I see my perfectly behaved calves getting chased and riled in the sale barn.. some handlers are far worse than others, I like it when the calves have the opportunity to show they are NOT freaks.. One time in particular they had to separate 2 tame heifers in the ring, and they were chased back and forth through it a half dozen times.. I know it could have been done by just walking between them and rattling the stick a little.

It's also the reason I do most of my vaccination without even running them through the chute... on a lot of them I just walk up and by the time they know what happened, it's all over.. I have a few that have a 6th sense for when i have a needle though, they're all lovey-dovey for 51 weeks of the year... Vaccination week they stay 50 ft away!.. even if I try and get them before the others.

 

[djinwa]

Surprise, surprise, cattle are like the rest of us. They don't like being forced to do things. Smart owners learn how to make it so they are doing things voluntarily. Much easier for them to take themselves somewhere voluntarily instead of trying to force them against their will.

Have to admit it could be a guy thing, and our urge to go to battle and conquer. Some years ago a calf got out, and I didn't want it heading to the hiway, so I was hollering to everyone to get out so we could chase it back in (which doesn't work too well with a single calf).

My wife yells out and asks me why I couldn't just take the calf's halter-broke mom out and lead them both back.

Duh. Guess I forgot about that method. Anyway, did that by myself, without a rodeo.

Have also learned training to cubes or grain works wonders, as it did last night when a heifer got out and into a hayshed.

So I suppose the salebarn boys need to assert their authority. You would think they would be pressured more to avoid stressing cattle, as stress suppresses the immune system. Underlying cause of pneumonia in feedlots, which is why they called it shipping fever.

Another problem is we aren't very good at relating to cattle. We know what we're doing to them and where they are going, but they have no idea. As far as they are concerned, when they're being forced to go somewhere, it could mean death. That is why they are always looking to escape, and worry about being trapped somewhere. Ideally you give them some time to learn that each new place and situation isn't going to kill them before you pile on more stress.

Of course, it is also good to breed for cattle who are less reactive to stress, i.e. genetically more docile.

 

[Brute 23]

There's a time for both. Usually calm handling pays off with calm easy going cows and calves. But sometimes a stick, a shout, a hotshot is needed to get them going where you want or keeping them from goin where you don't. The trick is figurin out when and how to use both.

:nod: Slow and easy. There are times when you have to keep the animal moving for your sake and their's.

You will not push Brahman cattle by being crazy. They will flush like quail or be in your back pocket. You lead them or apply slight pressure until the decide to move.

 

[highgrit]

We move ours easy and try to keep it slow. We rotate pastures every few days and cross a paved road a half dozen times a year. All we do is put feed in a little trailer and lead them anywhere we want them. All the problem cows have hit the road, and I won't put up with high strung cattle.
No more rodeos on this farm, the clown got to old.

 

[bigbull338]

like i said before my beefmasters are pretty easy to pen.so we have to make sure we get the 1s we want.because if we dont itll be a week or 2 before we can pen them again.because they know being pened means some1 is getting a free ride to a sale or new home.

 

[Nesikep]

I will say there are some cows that are so high strung there's no use keeping your calm! Once again I hauled a load of Indian cows, a bunch of rangey herf/angus crosses, 1 big old baldy bull, a young bull who was mean as heck but thankfully too small to do much damage, and one of the horned herfs was probably an older cow judging by her horns (they nearly crossed over the bridge of her nose), and she was one of those that would come after you no matter where you were, and 2 bred heifers. When I looked at the group, I had decided I wanted the bull and 2 others in the front of the trailer, and the other 3 in the back, perfect weight distribution, right? As luck would have it, the bull and 3 others went in, and we had a heck of a time getting just ONE of them into the back, it was all or nothing.. and on a 3-4 hour drive on twisty roads I wanted that load right, with the divider! I really don't see how indians can be so good at working horses when they're so horrid working cows! Right from the get-go their hands are waving, they have 4 guys yelling. At least this time around they built a new corral and loading chute so we didn't have any clattering, unsteady fence panels. I'll be taking another load from them at some point... they need snow before the cattle will come for hay, so next trip will be on snow.. JOY.. What I do for money

 

[Dave]

You don't raise dust or your voice when handling cattle. I tell people that John Wayne worked in movies not on real cattle.

 

[milkmaid]

People with good cattle handling skills don't need to be loud... usually because they saw and fixed the potential problem before "loud" became necessary.

And of course - salebarns or any place with lots of half-grown boys who need to prove their masculinity by making cattle run tend to create hot, flighty cattle.

 

[Putangitangi]

People with good cattle handling skills don't need to be loud... usually because they saw and fixed the potential problem before "loud" became necessary....

Sometimes the "problem" which didn't get fixed was that the cattle are so calm, they won't move without some noise and fluster behind them!

 

[Hook]

Ahhh, the beauty of different operations, breeds, operators, locations, Managment.

There isn't any answer that applies to every operation

 

[milkmaid]

People with good cattle handling skills don't need to be loud... usually because they saw and fixed the potential problem before "loud" became necessary....

Sometimes the "problem" which didn't get fixed was that the cattle are so calm, they won't move without some noise and fluster behind them!

Ha.... yes. Tame cattle are in a class all of their own.

 

[Toad]

Cattle often act in the same manner as their owner. I was recently helping move cattle for an older neighbor and overheard him talking to another neighbor. They were discussing how calm I was and how they really liked how I was around his cows. I don't think I stopped smiling for a week. Huge compliment coming from 2 men who have worked cattle for many many years.

 

[cow pollinater]

Sale barns are the worst place to watch people handle cattle. They have to deal with all types of cattle that have been handled in every way imaginable and they have to do it fast enough to keep the sale moving and they have no idea what the disposition of the cattle is like until they're on the truck leaving the yard... hardly shocking that they treat them all like they're rank. That way there is no surprises.

 

[Deepsouth]

I pen cows by myself. Range cubes are a powerful motivator.