Mothering ability

[gertman]

Do certain breeds have better mothering abilities than others, I'm speaking in terms of protecting their calves against predators (dogs, coyotes, etc.)

 

[greatgerts]

Most breeds with Brahman in them have pretty good mothering ability.

 

[cherokeeruby]

Well I am opening a can of worms here but Brahmans have a very strong reputation of calf protection. They have been known to kill cattle dogs when someone is trying to prove to a Brahman breeder how useful those type of dogs are. Also heard a story from a man who immigrated from India about his cows surrounding a killing a lion when he lived in India.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

My Herefords have done a good job, including chasing off dogs.

 

[Jake]

not breeds, but regions, for what I've seen cattle from northern decent, or areas of high predator problems are really good mothers. Grandpa's told of a cow pullin off a piece of the calf's hide trying to pull it out of a hole....

 

[Dyann]

Texas Longhorn!

 

[Frankie]

Do certain breeds have better mothering abilities than others, I'm speaking in terms of protecting their calves against predators (dogs, coyotes, etc.)

I saw our Angus cows kill a skunk one day. I've never figured out why. They encircled the skunk and finally one of them reached out with her front foot and snapped its back. They stood around with tears running out their eyes from the skunk juice and waited until it died, then they went back to grazing.

Some of the continental breeds are raised in barns in Europe. I believe it makes them less agressive toward predators. When we had commercial cows, we got hold of a very young calf one day to band it. He bawled and you never heard such a thunder of hoofs as the entire herd headed our way. When they got to where we were, they just milled around and looked confused but I have no doubt if a predator had hold of that calf instead of us, they would have taken him out. We didn't have good corrals on some rented pasture when we first got commercial cattle. Most of the calves we've ever lost were lost that one year. They got sick and couldn't keep up with the herd, making them sitting ducks for predators.
That year has made me a big believer in a good herd health program.

But don't think cows need horns to protect their calves. I know several humans that have been hurt pretty bad by the feet of an upset momma.

 

[cattle_gal]

Most of it is environment personality. And yes some genetic. Salers (very much) and the Continentals are protective. But as a whole what kind of environment they live in and how humans shape it.

Those with cow dogs that submits a cow will have less protective cows towards coyotes than those without cows dogs. A canine is a canine in a cows eyes. And if they have to mind a cow dog they will be less aggresive towards a coyote.

Our cows will encircle coyotes, bear and anything that looks like it's out to get a calf. Dry cows could care less about predators.

 

[Campground Cattle]

Most of it is environment personality. And yes some genetic. Salers (very much) and the Continentals are protective. But as a whole what kind of environment they live in and how humans shape it.

Those with cow dogs that submits a cow will have less protective cows towards coyotes than those without cows dogs. A canine is a canine in a cows eyes. And if they have to mind a cow dog they will be less aggresive towards a coyote.

Our cows will encircle coyotes, bear and anything that looks like it's out to get a calf. Dry cows could care less about predators.

I have to throw the BS Flag on this one, I assure you a coyote or stray dog is up for a fight. A cannine is not a cannine in a cows eyes they can tell the difference they know what belongs here and what doesn't. We work the cows regularly with a Bordie Collie.

 

[dun]

If a coyote is 100 yds or smore the cows could care less. Any closer and they'll run them off or attack them if they can catch them. All none member dogs are pursued no matter what distance. The calves learn it from their mothers and it carrys on through till old age, wet or dry, the cows have one mode.

dun

 

[cattle_gal]

I have to throw the BS Flag on this one, I assure you a coyote or stray dog is up for a fight. A cannine is not a cannine in a cows eyes they can tell the difference they know what belongs here and what doesn't. We work the cows regularly with a Bordie Collie.

Sorry to say that's the way it is with us. We live in the heart of predator country- coyotes, bears, cats, wolves, ect. It's a different story up here than the midwest,east and south. We do not want any of our cattle to submit to any of the canine breed or any predator as much as they can. We have no dogs. Not many ranchers are this way though. A choice that has protected us more against the killing of our calves. With the wolves it's going to get ugly with everyone here soon. They are still "protected" - even though there are 1000 running around.

My neighbors use dogs heavy on their cattle, they tried once to move our cattle out of the way during their move using dogs. Our cattle fought back and won. Now the nieghbors know all they have to do is push them some and they move out of the way and the dogs stay in the pickup. I've got video of the cows going after a coyote it isn't pretty. I've only got partial video of them going after a 2 year old brown bear and encircling them. See they out numbered him. If they didn't as in what happened a couple of years ago the bear killed 2 newborn calves in one night the end of calving and about 3 weeks after hibernation was done, only because there was 2 pair in the pasture. He was a old big bear. He just pushed his luck to meet his maker.

 

[Campground Cattle]

I have to throw the BS Flag on this one, I assure you a coyote or stray dog is up for a fight. A cannine is not a cannine in a cows eyes they can tell the difference they know what belongs here and what doesn't. We work the cows regularly with a Bordie Collie.

Sorry to say that's the way it is with us. We live in the heart of predator country- coyotes, bears, cats, wolves, ect. It's a different story up here than the midwest,east and south. We do not want any of our cattle to submit to any of the canine breed or any predator as much as they can. We have no dogs. Not many ranchers are this way though. A choice that has protected us more against the killing of our calves. With the wolves it's going to get ugly with everyone here soon. They are still "protected" - even though there are 1000 running around.



My neighbors use dogs heavy on their cattle, they tried once to move our cattle out of the way during their move using dogs. Our cattle fought back and won. Now the nieghbors know all they have to do is push them some and they move out of the way and the dogs stay in the pickup. I've got video of the cows going after a coyote it isn't pretty. I've only got partial video of them going after a 2 year old brown bear and encircling them. See they out numbered him. If they didn't as in what happened a couple of years ago the bear killed 2 newborn calves in one night the end of calving and about 3 weeks after hibernation was done, only because there was 2 pair in the pasture. He was a old big bear. He just pushed his luck to meet his maker.

Well I throwin the BS flag again apparently you have never been around a true stock dog. Bring a couple of Cathuola Curs in and them cows would be lookin for bear's for company.

 

[cattle_gal]

Campground I've been around plenty of cow dogs even the Cathula's. The main difference is the numbers. Strength in numbers. If cattle are trained to subimit they will go as the dog says - may take spliting of the cows tail down the middle from the dogs teeth. And if one cow misbehaves then that dog will get after her, however if the whole herd goes after one or 2 dogs that dog has quite a lot to deal with.

But Campground I'm not looking to train the cows to dogs, I like my cows standing up for themselves and attacking anything that might come for a snack on their calf. If it barks/yaps it's fair game. Domestic or wild. It's working for us.

 

[Dee]

It must have alot to do with personality of the cow. Here in the lot the biggest predator I have seen them take out is a loose Wal-mart bag. They all circle the rustling bag, and one brave one will come out of the herd, carefully approch the bag, and stomp it to death saving the ones that weren't quite as brave to step up first. :lol:

 

[TheBullLady]

We have Brahmans and Simmentals, and I would definately say the Brahmans are better mothers. In fact, a lot of times a Brahman will "babysit" seven or eight calves. The Simmentals will walk off and leave a calf when a Brahman would not. Of course if the calf started bawling I'm sure the Simmental would come running!

 

[Craig-TX]

In my own experience I've never seen a good cowdog that any cow or bull could handle. One of the big differences between a cowdog and a coyote is that the coyote will go after the babies. And they go for a kill in the throat. A cowdog will go after the adult cows just as readily as a calf, trying to turn them and work them from the rear. They are two distinctly different types of behavior.

Craig-TX

 

[Wren]

I know alot of you raise normal breeds but of the cows I have raised I have a highland cow that is a great mother. The only problem is she is half wild. Well unless you have bread or doughnuts. I can use my german shepard to work and she still stomps coyotes or anything else. I have noticed that a highland will take after something sooner than any of the other breeds. Most cows it 100 feet. With Highlands it's anything in thier pastures. They are very terratorial cattle.
Just my opinion.

 

[cattle_gal]

In my own experience I've never seen a good cowdog that any cow or bull could handle. One of the big differences between a cowdog and a coyote is that the coyote will go after the babies. And they go for a kill in the throat. A cowdog will go after the adult cows just as readily as a calf, trying to turn them and work them from the rear. They are two distinctly different types of behavior.

Craig-TX

Coyotes and wolves other favorite spot to attack is the hind quarter/hamstring. The young of course die as they get eaten alive and the older yearlings cattle and sheep will survive a little while longer. The theres the attacks of what I call "sport" - injury or kill the animal without eating one bite. Pups that are learning how to attack are the worst terrorizer Never kill the victim but leave a bloody mess and a live animal that we have to shoot anyway. One case with a wolf on a yearling steer, you could never tell that he was attacked until he died a day or 2 later and they did the autopsy holes in the hide and the muscle looked like hamburger when the wolf bit in - Sheer force there.

 

[Beefy]

to get back to the original question, the answer is not really. brahman cross cattle in general are pretty protective (sometimes frantic) when something tries to mess with the calf. we have some angus cross cows that will run a coyote or dog off regardless of if she has a calf or not, and then back last summer a charolais cow pinned my old chocolate lab down giving him fatal internal injuries. so certain cows within breeds are more protective than others, but all it takes is one bawl to have the whole herd surround something (or you).

 

[Chuck]

In fact, a lot of times a Brahman will "babysit" seven or eight calves. The Simmentals will walk off and leave a calf when a Brahman would not. Of course if the calf started bawling I'm sure the Simmental would come running!

I have noticed this in most every breed. There always seems to be a couple of cows in every herd that will lay up somewhere with a bunch of calves with them while the other Moms are off wandering around. Maybe its Bovine Day Care. :lol: