More Research Debunking "Bigger is Better"

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Do small cows make more money?
Aug 3, 2016 by Alan Newport in BEEF Editors' Blog


For years, indeed decades, the argument over cow size has been bantered about by cattle producers. Now, adding to the debate, research from Wyoming shows smaller cows can produce more beef per acre per ranch, and potentially produce more income.

The research report is available in the journal Rangelands and it shows, in the plainest terms, that 1,000-pound cows on the working university ranch in Wyoming are weaning more pounds of beef than any other category of cows up to 1,400 pounds. Because they can be run at higher stocking rate, this ends up being more total pounds of beef produced per acre and for the whole ranch.

The researchers divided the existing cows into five weight classes and then extrapolated each class to a whole-ranch stocking rate for comparison. The four-year study included the drought year of 2012, the wet year of 2014, and two years of approximately average rainfall.

In an article I wrote for Beef Producer, a sister publication to BEEF, I calculated from the pounds weaned in each scenario what the potential value of the calf crops would be in the drought year, the wet year, and over the four years as an average.I chose a price of $142 from the fall of 2012, which was about the middle of the price range for the years of the study (2011-2014), from a weekly futures price chart.

This is how the gross sales values calculated for the biggest-cow ranch versus the smallest-cow ranch, using the researcher's records for calf production:

The big-cow ranch had a four-year average of $139,024 gross calf income. In the wet year, they brought in $140,018 gross calf income. In a drought year, they brought in $124,325.

The small-cow ranch had a four-year average of $173,753 gross calf income. In a wet year, they produced $204,592 gross calf income. In a drought year, the cows produced $133,600 in gross calf income.

The management did not change for cow size, so this suggests much higher profit potential for the smaller cows


Full article: http://beefmagazine.com/blog/do-small-c ... more-money
 
Seen this article on Facebook, but many people are skeptical of it, mainly about what the smaller framed calves are bringing.
 
[*]t
Muddy":1xybw6ze said:
Seen this article on Facebook, but many people are skeptical of it, mainly about what the smaller framed calves are bringing.
. They will bring less if sold as stockers or feeders. The cost of gain usually runs higher also to get them to the preferred weight the packers want. To make an accurate judgement the cattle need to be followed all the way to the rail. Now if a breeder is selling beef himself then he can slaughter them at lighter weights and the smaller cow might make more money. Smaller framed cattle around here are docked heavily. So you can't use the same price for comparison.
 
I chose a price of $142 from the fall of 2012, which was about the middle of the price range for the years of the study (2011-2014), from a weekly futures price chart.
Assumptions are not research. They are opinions. The university would have actual sales data. Why was actual sales data and pound pricing not used?
#1 key to increased income with beef cattle: female fertility. Learn to select for that and red will be black if there is any black ink to be had. You don't read the tea leaves or the latest magazine; you read the cows and how they fit and if they are showing traits of fertility.
 
Ebenezer":2zd4kz7i said:
I chose a price of $142 from the fall of 2012, which was about the middle of the price range for the years of the study (2011-2014), from a weekly futures price chart.
Assumptions are not research. They are opinions. The university would have actual sales data. Why was actual sales data and pound pricing not used?
#1 key to increased income with beef cattle: female fertility. Learn to select for that and red will be black if there is any black ink to be had. You don't read the tea leaves or the latest magazine; you read the cows and how they fit and if they are showing traits of fertility.

I like the way you think, word of mouth and opinion never means much. The actual data says that carcass weights are on a downward trend.
http://www.agcenter.com/newcattlereport.aspx
 
Big or small is irrelevant. Do your cattle work in your environment and do they have a high percentage ability to grade choice? We will never beat Brazil on low cost weight, we have to be the high end product.
 
lots of questions with this article:

1. I need numbers how many 1000# cows vs 1400# cows per 100 acres?
2. I find some of the numbers shocking esp the wet year numbers.
3. No costs associated, Income isnt as important as profit.
4 If my 1400# cows raised a calf 50 lbs bigger than my 1000# cows, I would find better 1400# cows..:)
 
I think smaller to moderate framed cows are more efficient , and wean a higher percentage of body weight in relation to their inputs needed when bred to larger terminal bulls over having larger framed cows this study seems a little on the iffy side. It almost seemed like he didnt do any actual research and was just plugging in numbers that would get him to the results he wanted.

Reminds me of an article I read from a professor who was pushing that calving heifers once and then selling them as fat cattle to get the most profit. THey seemed to not take into account some key facts and push it just to get their name out there as doing something different.

http://www.angusjournal.com/ArticlePDF/ ... _15-AJ.pdf
 
Kris Ringwall at NDSU has done several years of the same study with high plains cattle with similar results...
Here is one of many article written about their studies:

BeefTalk: Pounds of Calf Weaned per Acre


The pounds of calf weaned per acre is key to the evaluation of any cattle system.
By Kris Ringwall, Beef Specialist

NDSU Extension Service

This Beeftalk concerns pounds of beef produced per acre utilizing two different types of cattle to help demonstrate what pounds of calf weaned per acre means.

The information presented, at this point, is an example of production data reflecting pounds of calf weaned per acre. For this article, I will not expound on marketing options.

Pounds of calf weaned per acre is a critical measurement in the commercial cow/calf operation. Unfortunately, the calculations seldom are made. Most producers appreciate the concept, but convenient processes are not readily available to measure pounds of calf weaned per acre.

Cattle may graze multiple pastures and pasture inventory may change during a season, plus all calves need to be weighed, making the collection of the needed data difficult. But the concept is real, and developing management and genetic programs that allow producers to better manage pounds of calf weaned per acre would be a very positive step for beef producers.

To help understand the concept, I would like to utilize two herds that are in residence at the Dickinson Research Extension Center (DREC) and also introduce the concept of cow size into the discussion. The herds are referred to as the "beef" herd and the "range" herd.

Utilizing the 2014 CHAPS (Cow Herd Appraisal of Performance Software) production records, a fair description of the two herds can be developed: The beef herd cows averaged 1,490 pounds at weaning; the range herd cows averaged 1,140 pounds at weaning. Granted, these are fall weights and will be used to estimate spring grass turn-out weight because the center does not weigh cows in the spring during calving. The two cow herds differ in cow weight by 350 pounds.

In terms of the pastures - the land base these cattle are grazing - the beef herd and the range herd have separate pastures. For the purpose of this BeefTalk, we will utilize 1,280 acres, with each pasture being one section of land (640 acres). Both groups of cattle graze native range for 4.5 months.

The DREC ranch headquarters are at Manning, and the pasture stocking rate is 2.2 acres per AUM (animal unit month). One AUM is equivalent to a 1,000-pound cow grazing for one month. Therefore, each 640-acre pasture would support 64 to 65 cows (640 acres divided by 2.2 acres per AUM divided by 4.5 months) at 1,000 pounds per cow for 4.5 months of grazing. The total cow weight turned out on June 1 would be 64,646 pounds (64.646 cows times 1,000 pounds) for each pasture.

To help further understand the meaning of pounds of calf weaned per acre, I will use the beef and range herds to expand the concept because the two herds, as noted before, differ in mature cow weight by 350 pounds. The actual number of cows stocked on summer native range pasture will be determined by the average cow weight for the beef and range herds.

The beef herd could stock 43 to 44 cows (64,646 pounds divided by 1,490 pounds of average cow weight) on the pasture, while the range herd could stock 56 to 57 cows (64,646 pounds divided by 1,140 pounds of average cow weight).

Each herd was calved on crested wheat pasture during May, with native range turnout for 4.5 months of summer grazing at the start of June, followed by fall aftermath grazing from mid-October to mid-November while managing the cows for weaning. The calves were weaned in early November.

Using the more conservative number, 43 beef cows were sent to native grass pasture and weaned 43 calves that averaged 540 pounds at 164 days of age. Likewise, 56 range cows were sent to native grass pasture and weaned 56 calves that averaged 485 pounds at 176 days of age.

Because the age was not the same, the beef calves' weight per day of age was 3.29, so adjusting the calves to a common age of 170 days of age, the beef calves would have been estimated to weigh 559 pounds. The range calves' weight per day of age was 2.75, so adjusting their weight to 170 days of age, the range calves would have been estimated to weigh 468 pounds.

The beef herd weaned 24,037 pounds (559 pounds times 43 calves at 170 days of age) of calf, or 37.6 pounds per acre. The range herd weaned 26,208 pounds (468 pounds times 56 calves at 170 day of age) of calf, or 41.0 pounds per acre.

Although one is tempted to discuss the efficiency of cow size, that discussion is very complicated and for today, let us simply appreciate the number of pounds of calf weaned per acre, knowing that pounds of calf weaned per acre is key to the evaluation of any cattle system.

Ultimately, calf value and costs also must be included. Because land drives the cow/calf business, efficient production of high-dollar calves is crucial.

May you find all your ear tags.
https://www.ext.nodak.edu:8089/news/col ... -acre/view


Using prices off the Northern Livestock Video's Summertime Classic auction sale for our area of the country and taking them at steer prices- the beef herd calves would have brought $151.50 at 559 lbs= $847 for a total of $36,421 for the 43 head..

while the range cows calves would have brought $168.50 at 468 lbs for a price of $789 with the total for 56 calves being $44,184..

Which if my arithmetic is correct means a plus difference of $7763 for the moderate sized range cows over the same acreage..
 
If you have range for your cows for half the year, who cares how much they eat? If smaller cows would be so profitable you'd think the minis would be golden.. except for pets you can't give the things away though.
I think in cold winters the somewhat bigger cow will do better, and bigger cows have less calving problems.

also, when cow/acre is calculated, is the winter feed coming of that acreage? It's impossible to *perfectly* stock a place, you're either over or you're under, as every year is a little (or lot) different.. So is the possible excess food taken into account?

What I can say is I have about 25 head on my place full time, it's between 50 and 60 acres of useable land, and I sell a little hay here and there, occasionally plow up an acre and plant other crops, etc. I'm trying to get rid of my monster cows as well, but I think the 1000 lb mature weight is taking it too far.. 1200 to 1500 is about where I'm trying to be
 
Nesikep":1mltqmtx said:
If you have range for your cows for half the year, who cares how much they eat? If smaller cows would be so profitable you'd think the minis would be golden.. except for pets you can't give the things away though.
I think in cold winters the somewhat bigger cow will do better, and bigger cows have less calving problems.

also, when cow/acre is calculated, is the winter feed coming of that acreage? It's impossible to *perfectly* stock a place, you're either over or you're under, as every year is a little (or lot) different.. So is the possible excess food taken into account?

What I can say is I have about 25 head on my place full time, it's between 50 and 60 acres of useable land, and I sell a little hay here and there, occasionally plow up an acre and plant other crops, etc. I'm trying to get rid of my monster cows as well, but I think the 1000 lb mature weight is taking it too far.. 1200 to 1500 is about where I'm trying to be

Hum, i dunno, when we had sims, i had way more calving problems with sims than i do now with angus cows...
 
Oldtimer":2ni7laho said:
Kris Ringwall at NDSU has done several years of the same study with high plains cattle with similar results...
Here is one of many article written about their studies:

Using prices off the Northern Livestock Video's Summertime Classic auction sale for our area of the country and taking them at steer prices- the beef herd calves would have brought $151.50 at 559 lbs= $847 for a total of $36,421 for the 43 head..

while the range cows calves would have brought $168.50 at 468 lbs for a price of $789 with the total for 56 calves being $44,184..

Which if my arithmetic is correct means a plus difference of $7763 for the moderate sized range cows over the same acreage..
$789 for a smaller framed steer calf? Without any heavy dock?
 
I think it depends more on environment In the east with high moisture grass a large framed cow with capacity to utilize the grass in probably best suited.
In other arid type areas where cattle have to travel and hustle a smaller framed cow
In a areas with a moderate climate then that theory may hold true
 
one of many article written about their studies:
Why didn't the first article nail it? Or is the purpose to write many articles?????

while the range cows calves would have brought $168.50 at 468 lbs for a price of $789
Only in dreams and frequent sales propaganda from sellers of small frame bulls. Small frame calf would not bring a $0.17 premium. FRAUD ALERT!!!... FRAUD ALERT!!!

The beef herd cows averaged 1,490 pounds at weaning; the range herd cows averaged 1,140 pounds at weaning.
Here is the real problem: AVERAGE
If the average was 1490 then the range would be 200+/- pounds in most herds. I am assuming (so I must be an author!) :lol: Who would want a 1690 pound cow? I've got a better idea. When pound cow prices are up, sell the top half of the roving battleships out of the herd and get back to real world weights. Money!!!! Same thing on range cows: would they vary 200+/- pounds? Who wants to guess and be a co-author?

The pounds of calf weaned per acre is key to the evaluation of any cattle system.
It may be the key to evaluating a "cattle system" but "profit - costs = the economics of a cattle business". You had better have calves that fall into the range of what the buyer's really want if you care to have a business versus a system.
 
Cross-7":3mlc2bof said:
I think it depends more on environment In the east with high moisture grass a large framed cow with capacity to utilize the grass in probably best suited.
In other arid type areas where cattle have to travel and hustle a smaller framed cow
In a areas with a moderate climate then that theory may hold true
I think that's completely correct, I'm just against this new "one size fits all" idea of the really small cow working everywhere.
Doesn't work for condoms either
 
Ebenezer":3onyrzus said:
one of many article written about their studies:
Why didn't the first article nail it? Or is the purpose to write many articles?????

while the range cows calves would have brought $168.50 at 468 lbs for a price of $789
Only in dreams and frequent sales propaganda from sellers of small frame bulls. Small frame calf would not bring a $0.17 premium. FRAUD ALERT!!!... FRAUD ALERT!!!

The beef herd cows averaged 1,490 pounds at weaning; the range herd cows averaged 1,140 pounds at weaning.
Here is the real problem: AVERAGE
If the average was 1490 then the range would be 200+/- pounds in most herds. I am assuming (so I must be an author!) :lol: Who would want a 1690 pound cow? I've got a better idea. When pound cow prices are up, sell the top half of the roving battleships out of the herd and get back to real world weights. Money!!!! Same thing on range cows: would they vary 200+/- pounds? Who wants to guess and be a co-author?

The pounds of calf weaned per acre is key to the evaluation of any cattle system.
It may be the key to evaluating a "cattle system" but "profit - costs = the economics of a cattle business". You had better have calves that fall into the range of what the buyer's really want if you care to have a business versus a system.

I took the price for that weight right off of Northern Livestock Videos summer classic auction.. These are prices being brought today in our area :
http://www.northernlivestockvideo.com/c ... saleid=984

A few years ago I saw where lightweights (400-500) in our area were bringing almost the same as a 600-700 lb calf... I believe the reason is we have a lot of folks that run yearlings and like the range cattle type grass genetics...

And I disagree with your weight assumption... My cattle come off pasture in the fall right after weaning at their best weight- and are at their lightest after wintering and calving- so that weight taken then would be their heaviest weight..North Dakota winters are much like mine (only 100 miles from ND line) so I would not dispute them...

Like someone said- it might be different in the south or back east- but after 50+ years of raising cattle I've found that the moderate cattle that have the genetics to survive in the tough years and thrive in the good years work the best for here..
 
Oldtimer":8e8p6s5n said:
Ebenezer":8e8p6s5n said:
one of many article written about their studies:
Why didn't the first article nail it? Or is the purpose to write many articles?????

while the range cows calves would have brought $168.50 at 468 lbs for a price of $789
Only in dreams and frequent sales propaganda from sellers of small frame bulls. Small frame calf would not bring a $0.17 premium. FRAUD ALERT!!!... FRAUD ALERT!!!

The beef herd cows averaged 1,490 pounds at weaning; the range herd cows averaged 1,140 pounds at weaning.
Here is the real problem: AVERAGE
If the average was 1490 then the range would be 200+/- pounds in most herds. I am assuming (so I must be an author!) :lol: Who would want a 1690 pound cow? I've got a better idea. When pound cow prices are up, sell the top half of the roving battleships out of the herd and get back to real world weights. Money!!!! Same thing on range cows: would they vary 200+/- pounds? Who wants to guess and be a co-author?

The pounds of calf weaned per acre is key to the evaluation of any cattle system.
It may be the key to evaluating a "cattle system" but "profit - costs = the economics of a cattle business". You had better have calves that fall into the range of what the buyer's really want if you care to have a business versus a system.

I took the price for that weight right off of Northern Livestock Videos summer classic auction.. These are prices being brought today in our area :
http://www.northernlivestockvideo.com/c ... saleid=984

A few years ago I saw where lightweights (400-500) in our area were bringing almost the same as a 600-700 lb calf... I believe the reason is we have a lot of folks that run yearlings and like the range cattle type grass genetics...

And I disagree with your weight assumption... My cattle come off pasture in the fall right after weaning at their best weight- and are at their lightest after wintering and calving- so that weight taken then would be their heaviest weight..North Dakota winters are much like mine (only 100 miles from ND line) so I would not dispute them...

Like someone said- it might be different in the south or back east- but after 50+ years of raising cattle I've found that the moderate cattle that have the genetics to survive in the tough years and thrive in the good years work the best for here..
. MODERATE - What is moderate? I've found it varies with each breeder.
 
I think Oldtimer is confused. From my interpretation we're talking about the frame size, not the actual weights. Buyers didn't want short calves, even if their weights are same as the typical feeder calf. So just don't confuse the short calves with the lightweight calves.
 
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