more bottle questions

[TMRwife]

4 day old calf we have in the pen bottle feeding. When we found her on Sunday, she was too weak to stand up and nurse - mom was still attentive (and very aggressive), calf just couldn't eat. Got her in a pen and have been bottle feeding her. She is up, looking better. Now have mom in pen with her. She tries to nurse, but never opens her mouth to latch on - just doing the head butting thing. The milk is actually dripping out of mom's udder. She'll take a bottle great as long as I force her mouth open, good suck, but has never opened her mouth for the bottle either. Very aggressive cow and don't have the facilities to help the calf nurse. The mom would kill me if I even got close. Any ideas or ever heard of this before?

 

[Suzie Q]

Without facilities would make it a bit hard.

If here I would put her in the crush and open the bottom. Being a bit gentle and get milk out doesn't usually upset the cow, but I can put a rope on if I think she is going to kick me.

Then knees behind the calf to hold it forward and one hand on neck to put it down and the other one to open mouth and insert teat and put milk in the mouth.

I have done this with a few calves, and once they learn I haven't had a problem with them opening their mouth.

All mine were introducing new calves to a different mother. I haven't had a problem with a calf not opening its mouth to suck. Maybe Mum has kicked him in the mouth or something?

Bottlefeed the calf like you are doing and I would say that he then won't be hungry enough to drink from Mum. JMHO.

 

[TMRwife]

It's the darndest thing I've ever seen - she'll get up under her mom and butt at the udder, but never latches on and won't open her mouth. She is now 6 days old. Every time I feed her, I have to open her mouth. She'll lick the bottle and nudge at it, but will not open her mouth. Very strange. Guess she is my bottle calf for the year (and none too bright apparently)

 

[dun]

It's the darndest thing I've ever seen - she'll get up under her mom and butt at the udder, but never latches on and won't open her mouth. She is now 6 days old. Every time I feed her, I have to open her mouth. She'll lick the bottle and nudge at it, but will not open her mouth. Very strange. Guess she is my bottle calf for the year (and none too bright apparently)

Rather then forcing her mouth open and sticking the nipple in you might just dribbel milk on her nose so that it runs into her mouth and see if she gets the idea about opening up.

 

[Dixieangus]

Rather then forcing her mouth open and sticking the nipple in you might just dribbel milk on her nose so that it runs into her mouth and see if she gets the idea about opening up.

This is how i get most my stubborn ones to get the idea...Stand over then dribbel a little milk on her nose (a good helping) she will usually lick it and then start messing her tongue around, and bingo you can usually have her......I also had one that just didnt have the sucking reflex and lasted a week of force feeding then died

 

[TMRwife]

I tried dribbling milk this morning and she would lick, but still not open her mouth. I'll keep trying. Nothing wrong with her suck reflex - once she takes the nipple, she never lets go! We have mom in the pen with her just in case of a miracle, and as soon as she is done with the bottle, she goes immediately to her mom and starts trying to nurse - albeit with a closed mouth and just hitting the udder.

 

[binger9066]

i had a few bottle calfs that were pulled off the cow they were the same way i just stand over there back with there head between my legs and tilt headback and pry there mouth open after about a week or two they had no problems they would come running. also try a little sugar on the nipple

 

[Suzie Q]

Mum will be drying up if she is not sucking.

 

[Dixieangus]

you are opening her mouth for her and giving her the bottle right?

 

[dun]

You might try sticking the nipple in and when she gets a good suck going, pull it out and leave it right at her mouth. After a couple of times I would think she would start hunting for it and the light would go on

 

[msscamp]

Any ideas or ever heard of this before?

Sounds like a version of dummy calf syndrome. Usually this happens in cold weather when the calf doesn't suck right away. Milk provides lactose which is a form of sugar that 'feeds' the brain. I've learned over the last couple of years that when I have a goat kid that gets too cold dextrose mixed with water provide 'brain food' and will get the sucking instinct going very quickly. I'm wondering if the mother wasn't a bit too "attentive". She was more concerned with mothering, wouldn't stand still long enough for the baby to suck thereby causing a long enough delay for the instinct to suck to be lost - maybe permanently.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Any ideas or ever heard of this before?

Sounds like a version of dummy calf syndrome. Usually this happens in cold weather when the calf doesn't suck right away. Milk provides lactose which is a form of sugar that 'feeds' the brain. I've learned over the last couple of years that when I have a goat kid that gets too cold dextrose mixed with water provide 'brain food' and will get the sucking instinct going very quickly. I'm wondering if the mother wasn't a bit too "attentive". She was more concerned with mothering, wouldn't stand still long enough for the baby to suck thereby causing a long enough delay for the instinct to suck to be lost - maybe permanently.

So if a calf has not been fed for a day or two, could it then lose the suckling instinct?
Have you seen where dextrose does not get the sucking instint back?

 

[msscamp]

Any ideas or ever heard of this before?

Sounds like a version of dummy calf syndrome. Usually this happens in cold weather when the calf doesn't suck right away. Milk provides lactose which is a form of sugar that 'feeds' the brain. I've learned over the last couple of years that when I have a goat kid that gets too cold dextrose mixed with water provide 'brain food' and will get the sucking instinct going very quickly. I'm wondering if the mother wasn't a bit too "attentive". She was more concerned with mothering, wouldn't stand still long enough for the baby to suck thereby causing a long enough delay for the instinct to suck to be lost - maybe permanently.

So if a calf has not been fed for a day or two, could it then lose the suckling instinct?

I would certainly think so. Think about it. Sucking not only feeds the body, it also provides nutrients to the brain and keeps the instincts functioning. If that doesn't happen, instincts tend to fade and die. The instinct to suck is rewarded through milk, energy, and nutrients. I know it happens in cold weather, why wouldn't it happen in warm weather too?

 

[dun]

Any ideas or ever heard of this before?

Sounds like a version of dummy calf syndrome. Usually this happens in cold weather when the calf doesn't suck right away. Milk provides lactose which is a form of sugar that 'feeds' the brain. I've learned over the last couple of years that when I have a goat kid that gets too cold dextrose mixed with water provide 'brain food' and will get the sucking instinct going very quickly. I'm wondering if the mother wasn't a bit too "attentive". She was more concerned with mothering, wouldn't stand still long enough for the baby to suck thereby causing a long enough delay for the instinct to suck to be lost - maybe permanently.

It isn;t the sucking instince/reflex/whatever that the calf doesn;t have. It's the finding the teat/nipple and opening it's mouth. Apparantly once it get on it it sucks just fine.

We had a 2 day old calf spook and hit the neigbors woods (1 mile away) for 3 days. When it found it's way back it started sucking as if it had been doing it all of it's life.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Any ideas or ever heard of this before?

Sounds like a version of dummy calf syndrome. Usually this happens in cold weather when the calf doesn't suck right away. Milk provides lactose which is a form of sugar that 'feeds' the brain. I've learned over the last couple of years that when I have a goat kid that gets too cold dextrose mixed with water provide 'brain food' and will get the sucking instinct going very quickly. I'm wondering if the mother wasn't a bit too "attentive". She was more concerned with mothering, wouldn't stand still long enough for the baby to suck thereby causing a long enough delay for the instinct to suck to be lost - maybe permanently.

It isn;t the sucking instince/reflex/whatever that the calf doesn;t have. It's the finding the teat/nipple and opening it's mouth. Apparantly once it get on it it sucks just fine.

We had a 2 day old calf spook and hit the neigbors woods (1 mile away) for 3 days. When it found it's way back it started sucking as if it had been doing it all of it's life.

We have a few new born rescue calves. Tried all the nursing tips in these treads and they would not suck. Squirted and poured milk for days. Really flustrating. Talked to the big dairy next door and they said "yep, the calf must be pretty far gone". Timing is everything.

Had another one last week. Sledded them across the flood zone and into the working facility ASAP and again tried the tips. No go on sucking. Tubed the calf twice with Karo/milk replacer at 0 and 12 hours - - and then it nursed like a Holstein at 24 hours. Either it needed brain food or time to bond.

Ship the cow and buy a headgate. :cboy:

 

[Suzie Q]

I have to agree with Stocker Steve.

Selling the cow to fund the money to have the correct facilities makes a lot of sense to me.