Montebelliard’s
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Rafter S
Well-known member
I had never heard of the breed, so I Googled it. It appears to be a dairy breed. Do you have a dairy herd, or do you plan to use him on beef cattle? And if you plan to use him on beef cattle, why?
simme
Old Dumb Guy
So, you have a Simmental. Montbeliarde is one of the French registries that are part of the larger breed known as Simmental. Although they were known as Simmental in Switzerland, they had different names in other European countries.
From "History of the Simmental Breed" - "Selection in Europe was initially for three features . . . milk, meat and as draft animals. The demand for working animals is greatly reduced today but muscularity and high milk production are still important to the success of Simmental. The breed is known by a variety of names, including "Fleckvieh" in Germany; "Pie Rouge", "Montbeliarde", and "Abondance" in France; and "Pezzata Rosa" in Italy."
Montbeliarde is known for milk and cheese production. Closer to a Holstein than a beef animal in France. Did your calf come from a dairy? Maybe you could share a picture?
Simmentals are the second largest breed of cattle in the world in terms of numbers with a lot of diversity worldwide. Largest is Brahma. North American simmentals have evolved quite a bit due to selection for our conditions and needs.
A French Montbeliarde cow.
From "History of the Simmental Breed" - "Selection in Europe was initially for three features . . . milk, meat and as draft animals. The demand for working animals is greatly reduced today but muscularity and high milk production are still important to the success of Simmental. The breed is known by a variety of names, including "Fleckvieh" in Germany; "Pie Rouge", "Montbeliarde", and "Abondance" in France; and "Pezzata Rosa" in Italy."
Montbeliarde is known for milk and cheese production. Closer to a Holstein than a beef animal in France. Did your calf come from a dairy? Maybe you could share a picture?
Simmentals are the second largest breed of cattle in the world in terms of numbers with a lot of diversity worldwide. Largest is Brahma. North American simmentals have evolved quite a bit due to selection for our conditions and needs.
A French Montbeliarde cow.
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BC
Well-known member
Dairy breed. The grazing dairy down the road uses them. Red colored helps with Texas heat and butterfat content is better than Holstein.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Dual purpose breed. Beware that they are not a calving ease breed.
The ones imported to the USA have been selected for their dairy traits.
A dairy neighbor/friend uses Holstein x Jersey x Monty rotation successfully,
fine cattle, but beware of calving ease.
p.s.
I have bought Monty x Holstein steers in the past to finish and they feed out better than straight Holstein steers.
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RockinRB
Well-known member
There is a dairy here that uses montebeliardes to cross with their holsteins. A few years ago we bought one of their bull monty x holstein bull calves to graft on a cow. He looked really good for a dairy calf, although he was clearly dairy.
Because of the time frame he was being grafted onto the cow, he didn't get banded when we branded and he slipped by all summer. Somehow he ended up breeding a couple heifers. The calves out of him had noticeable dairy influence but weren't horrible.
Because of the time frame he was being grafted onto the cow, he didn't get banded when we branded and he slipped by all summer. Somehow he ended up breeding a couple heifers. The calves out of him had noticeable dairy influence but weren't horrible.
Peace
Well-known member
I would be very leery to keep a dairy bull intact...the tend to have a satanic temperment
farmerjan
Well-known member
I have had many dairies use them over the years. They tend to make a much stouter, stockier, calf. The ones that have milked them, have found that they milk well, they hold alot more weight on their body, and good dispositions. I really like them. They do well in a grazing situation. I would call them more along the lines of a dual purpose than just a dairy breed because of their being beefier but they are not slouches with putting milk in the tank. I want to breed a few of my nurse cows to a montebliarde this next time around.
A dairy bull is no more "satanic" than a beef bull would be if her were penned up in a little pen and got to smell cows day in and day out that were in heat and such. Yes, most dairy bulls need watching, and many get to feeling a little too big for their britches after they hit 2-3 yrs old. I also agree that a jersey tends to be more likely to turn on you..... that said we have had more problems with holstein bulls getting aggressive on most of my farms. I ran a jersey bull with some cows for about a year at my nurse cow field. He was quiet and knew his place and I never trusted him but was not afraid of him either. Respect helps... but I have had 2 beef bulls over the years that I would never go further into the field than I could run out of, or would only go in because I had the truck... they never actually did anything, but I just did not like their "way of looking and snorting a little".... Granted, the safest bull is in a little straw......
A dairy bull is no more "satanic" than a beef bull would be if her were penned up in a little pen and got to smell cows day in and day out that were in heat and such. Yes, most dairy bulls need watching, and many get to feeling a little too big for their britches after they hit 2-3 yrs old. I also agree that a jersey tends to be more likely to turn on you..... that said we have had more problems with holstein bulls getting aggressive on most of my farms. I ran a jersey bull with some cows for about a year at my nurse cow field. He was quiet and knew his place and I never trusted him but was not afraid of him either. Respect helps... but I have had 2 beef bulls over the years that I would never go further into the field than I could run out of, or would only go in because I had the truck... they never actually did anything, but I just did not like their "way of looking and snorting a little".... Granted, the safest bull is in a little straw......
Peace
Well-known member
I will agree that Holstein bulls tend to be the worst, but my experience with dairy bulls on ground tells me they're nasty when they're on ground as opposed to concrete. I don't know why, but they just believe they're the boss and will tie into about anything that comes onto their ground. Plus, if you can't ready body language of bulls, any of them can be real trouble, too big, too strong and too unpredictable.
I appreciate everyone's responses, y'all made some excellent points and made me consider a few things I hadn't, mainly the birthing ease issue.
As for being satanic, he was a bottle baby and is awful friendly now at around 500 lbs I'd guess. Gets a little frisky at times with his head, but nothing that causes fear in us. Respect, yes. Fear, not yet. So far their dispositions have been perfect.
We plan on buying heavy bred 4-6 yr old cows this season and keeping them until weaning and then sending them back off to market. We may retain one or two if they seem worthy. By then our Monty bull should be just a few months away being from being ready for work. That's plan A anyway. I'm working on plan D right now, cause we all know A, B and often C don't work.
As for being satanic, he was a bottle baby and is awful friendly now at around 500 lbs I'd guess. Gets a little frisky at times with his head, but nothing that causes fear in us. Respect, yes. Fear, not yet. So far their dispositions have been perfect.
We plan on buying heavy bred 4-6 yr old cows this season and keeping them until weaning and then sending them back off to market. We may retain one or two if they seem worthy. By then our Monty bull should be just a few months away being from being ready for work. That's plan A anyway. I'm working on plan D right now, cause we all know A, B and often C don't work.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
The 'satanic' part comes - not so much from being a dairy breed - but from having been hand-reared by humans. Having been removed from the dam, virtually from birth, they imprint on, and have no fear of humans, and once the testosterone starts flowing... any human is viewed as a potential rival - and no human is a match for 1000-2500 lbs of bone and muscle.
Chances are, a beef-breed bull raised on a bottle, instead of on his dam, would be just as dangerous, because he would have no fear/respect of humans.
We had neighbors/clients, back in TN, who were dairymen, and their father was killed, out in the barnlot, by a Holstein bull, who literally ground him into the dirt, 'til he was just a bloody mass of broken bones and smashed organs.
We see similar dangerous behavior in other species, like hand-reared stallions, llamas... they even call it 'Berserk Llama Syndrome'.
There is an Amish dairy in the next county that's milking Montbeliard or Fleckvieh... I've only seen them from the road, at highway speed, so not sure which.
Back when I was toying with the idea of training a yoke of working steers, I'd thought about seeing if I could buy a couple of bull calves to work with...they'd be easier to look at than a pair of Jersey or Holstein steers.
Chances are, a beef-breed bull raised on a bottle, instead of on his dam, would be just as dangerous, because he would have no fear/respect of humans.
No bull, these animals are dangerous
Bulls are dangerous and unpredictable and can seriously injure or kill their handlers or bystanders. So why do farmers still keep them on the farm?
www.wisfarmer.com
We see similar dangerous behavior in other species, like hand-reared stallions, llamas... they even call it 'Berserk Llama Syndrome'.
There is an Amish dairy in the next county that's milking Montbeliard or Fleckvieh... I've only seen them from the road, at highway speed, so not sure which.
Back when I was toying with the idea of training a yoke of working steers, I'd thought about seeing if I could buy a couple of bull calves to work with...they'd be easier to look at than a pair of Jersey or Holstein steers.
BFE
Well-known member
My dad and grandpa hauled hundreds of loads of livestock in the old days. Dad tells about the East St. Louis stockyards, they'd get a Holstein bull in and you could hear the yard men yelling down the alley. They'd scramble for the fence and here in a minute a big bull would come barreling down the alley snorting and wild, looking for blood.
Yes we will use him on a few small beef heifers. To be honest, this is a straight up genetics play, a "hey, what if we …" type of deal. I am utterly fascinated with genetics.
We also raise goats and I've been experimenting with crossbreeding Nigerians with Spanish and Boer bucks. I had plenty of people tell me that couldn't be done - or that doing so would kill the mother. Nonsense. The experiment has gone extremely well so far. Better than expected. A mature Kiko, Boer or other meat goat sells for $350-1000. Average $450 from what I've found. We spend $125 max on each Nigerian doe, and I can't tell you the number of them we've bought who were also pregnant. Two or three months later we have 2-3 free kids. So for each Kiko I would have bought we got three mature Nigerian does. Their kids are bringing $3.25-$4 a pound at 60 lb weights. Nigerians have a monthly breeding cycle, meat goats twice a year.
We will cross Monty with charolais we have and see what we can get. Then see what kind of beef he produces. Hoping for nice marbling.
I guess my thinking has been thus … if I can buy a nice, healthy bull calf for $100 (when an angus or other fine beast would be $300-$500) and raise him to produce a nice calf for our family and then take him to the auction at 1700 lbs or so and get .80 per lb for him I can't go wrong. Well. Guess I shouldn't have said that. Just jinxed myself.
mickroos65
Well-known member
What is driving the goat market? I know very little about goats. I am considering getting a few but I don't understand the market. Will be watching for future posts of your cattle project.
Straight up demand, mostly from Muslims and Hispanics, especially on holidays. I'm not sure of these numbers, but a huge amount of US goat meat is still being imported. Like 40%? Mostly from AUS.
During Ramadan I saw a few goats run through at a little over $5 lb live weight. Back down to around $4.20-$4.50 now for premium kids, but that's still very strong for post-holidays.
mickroos65
Well-known member
Interesting. Thanks for the reply
Here is a link to the San Angelo, TX auction. It will give you an idea of the market.
file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/75/05/E7AF71AB-879F-4041-A019-2C6BCD5C64D3/ams_2014.pdf
Let me know if the link is incorrect.
