Modern Education

[504RP]

People have been telling these same stories for decades. Has nothing to do with those teaching, only the ones that are supposed to be learning.

Your BADLY mistaken about that !!! Are you a teacher yourself, spouse a teacher, family member a teacher ? Your comment sounds exactly like something someone like that would say !

I say it's both, I have a daughter inlaw that teachers and she is discussed with the curriculum they are told to teach. No it's no CRT but some have mentioned the test, and that is correct

I agree with you !

 

[504RP]

Some students put out no effort in school. No matter how good a teacher is, if there is no desire, motivation or effort by the student, not much learning will happen by that student. I see the same characteristics in some adults in the working world. Just putting in their time with little effort to be productive. I would bet that young man sat in classrooms with other students who put out some effort then, and can make change, kind of like the young lady in your story. You can blame modern education if you want, I blame modern society and personal attitudes.

You said you taught for 30 years ? So by reading your reply I can tell you place more of the blame on as you put it " Some students " Now is it just as well possible that it could be like a two sided coin and also be " Some teachers aren't qualified to be a teacher ! " ???

I know of several I have had who's classes I attended and made straight in there class that was nothing more than a joke !!! Sure all of us who had teachers in school liked teachers like as high school student's. Did I learn anything from teachers like that ? Why hell no I didn't.

Even had teachers in college like that. Know of a boy I went through high school with who why they graduated him is beyond all of us that graduated with him. Went all through high school with him. His school records will prove that when I say he never made above a D grade during his whole time in school .

That idiot went on to a vocational school to become a teacher there himself !!! Probably can't spell his own name today !!!

 

[M.Magis]

Your BADLY mistaken about that !!! Are you a teacher yourself, spouse a teacher, family member a teacher ? Your comment sounds exactly like something someone like that would say !

No. Sounds like you just think you're smarter than everyone else. Maybe you are, I don't care to be honest. But you're acting like a jack azz.

No. Sounds like you just think you're smarter than everyone else. Maybe you are, I don't care to be honest. But you're acting like a jack azz.

 

[504RP]

Back at you ! Your bad wrong about me being smart. I am far from that. If anything will be the first to admit I am at the bottom of the smart class.

I do apologize for the comment I made to you though and hope you will accept my apology. Your right also about me behaving like a jack azz. I deserve that also.

I took what you said as if you yourself were or was a teacher. To me it seems like alot of teachers blame the students and at the same time students blame the teacher's.

I think some of that holds true for both party's. Again I hope you will accept my apology and am truly sorry for behaving the way i did .

 

[calfmomma]

Education is like a lot of others things. Failures and lack of success can be blamed on many factors and many groups. But, in the end, personal responsibility is the major factor. In the case of education, parents and the kids themselves. There are many poor quality teachers, but most are capable and competent. Many are excellent. But what do they teach? Remember the 3 R's? Reading, wRriting, and aRithmetic. That use to make up a major portion of education and was beneficial in every day life. If you master those, you can get by. May need to put more emphasis on those before moving on to all the other stuff.

First response to educational problems is to spend more money - hire more teachers, give them raises, build new buildings, etc. Throwing money at a problem just wastes money. If that were the solution, we would be in great shape. We don't get our money's worth in terms of what we spend per student compared to other countries. At least I have read that.

I attended the smallest school in my state. Less than 100 students in the high school. No choices of classes, everyone in each grade took the same classes. Too small to offer more choices. Hard to get the best teachers or opportunities in such a small school. But was able to go to college, get an engineering degree and graduate at the top of the class. Personal responsibility - expect to do well and put the effort in. Look for people to help you instead of looking for someone to blame for things.

Our daughter went to public elementary school. We were not real happy with what was happening there - a couple of excellent teachers, but a couple of real duds. The system treats everyone the same, good or bad. The real world should reward the best and penalize the one's that don't perform. We were thinking about home schooling. This was years ago when home schooling was not very accepted and was viewed with hostility by some. We visited the middle school and the high school to help with our decision. They were very proud of a couple of their programs. One was to require the students to take home an egg shell for the weekend and bring it back on Monday without breaking it. One was to take home a doll that would regularly cry and require attention. These programs were supposed to teach responsibility. No discussion of the 3 R's. This school district was one of the top districts in the state.

Our decision was made and our kids were home schooled. At that time, you had to get "permission" from your local school district in order to home school. We were told that they would probably not be able to go to college, not be eligible for scholarships, and would be irreparably harmed by our actions . After a few years of the home schooling, our daughter asked what was required to finish. My wife gave her a list of courses and books and told her that when she finished those and passed the tests for them, she could "graduate" from home schooling. She finished high school at 15 while also taking college transfer courses at the local tech school. She attended the local state university for two years and took only the necessary courses to allow her to apply to vet school. She was accepted to vet school when she was 18 and graduated with high honors when she just turned 23. Remember that our school district had warned us that we were doing irreparable harm to our kids. I did brag a little in this, but to make the point that success in education is a personal responsibility and a responsibility of having kids. If we turn our kids over to the government or the "system" for the whole of their education, we get what we have.

This is the ticket! In the end, it is up to us as parents to make sure our children learn to take initiative, responsibility for their actions and so on. Great job of taking the leap and doing what was best for your child! I work as a banker and the level of dunce I see is incredible and I vowed a lot of years ago to never let a child in to the world without brains, common sense and respect!

 

[alacowman1]

Not all are that dense..girl at our local store never misses a lick..she just graduated and not been at it long..but she stays on top of things..

 

[sstterry]

The problem with Common Core Education is that it was developed by politicians and not Educators. True educators hate it, but it is forced on them by politicians that think they know what is best more so than the experts.

 

[Son of Butch]

My mother was a teacher and she said her teacher training classes taught/told her that a child failing a test or class wasn't the child's failure, but her failure as a teacher.

But, contrary to modern day participation award society beliefs, not all of our children are above average.
A local cashier at a Mom & Pop store has struggled making change for 20 years, she is not as bad as 20 years ago when a running joke was, I'm short on cash, hold on I'll have LuAnn break a 20

On the other hand, what she lacks in math skills is more than made up for by her gentle soul and kindness. Case in point: If she sees a pregnant girl is checking out, she reaches under the counter and throws a $15 bottle of prenatal multivitamins in the bag for free. She probably would have been fired long ago if her parents didn't own the store.

 

[Ky hills]

There are at least a couple elephants in the room that are not addressed when education is being discussed. One being that there is a significant percent of students that are not actively learning because they have no personal desire to do so nor do their parents or guardians. Those individuals disrupt and cause chaos for the other children and teachers. There is not really anything that the teachers can do about it. Years ago when I went to public Junior High school it was a fiasco, then in high school most of those individuals had turned 16 and quit so it wasn't quite as bad in those years. Now they have passed a law where no one can quit until 18 years of age. That does nothing for them learning it just prolongs the problem behavior and it's affect on the learning environment of others.
For many people that are drawing government assistance it is generational, and the importance and seriousness of children benefiting from education is not even a consideration.
On the other end of the spectrum, My wife has been a private school teacher. Some of those schools are better than others. She received less than 1/2 the pay of public school teachers with none of the benefits, all the while putting her all into it and dealing with all of the same issues and probably more. Curriculum is an issue in private schools too, the last place she worked was changing over curriculum and she did not like the new materials at all. Then there are some people that have a sense of entitlement and expect teachers to overlook bad behavior and literally give good grades even when the children don't earn those grades. The administration of the schools often push teachers to give grades too, because of pressure from parents and the fact that they want to make a good showing for recruiting new students and appeasing and retaining the ones they have.

 

[Dave]

504RP You complain about young people not being able to make change. However, your third post in this thread is full of double negatives. I am not the grammar police because I am far from prefect. Just thought I would point that out. Along with math they also should teach proper grammar in school.

 

[Ky hills]

Everybody makes mistakes and, everybody that works has to learn how to do the job if it's something they are inexperienced at. I'm far more concerned about people that are disinterested or rude when it comes to their work. Yesterday my wife went to some furniture stores looking for a chair to go in our short term rental. We had been working around the house and just went without dressing up. First place she went in the woman working told her she just didn't like the price is why she didn't find what she wanted. There was some truth to that, however she didn't find the kind she was looking for price or not. Needless to say that store did not make a good impression. As for young people struggling to make change at the checkout counter, to their credit at least they are working. Math was never one of my strongpoints in school, but I was pretty good at spelling. My wife is kind of the opposite she is good with math but will often ask me how to spell something. I'm not perfect at that and the older I get I have to look up more to get a correct spelling, I make mistakes and misspell and I make plenty of grammatical errors, in my posts. I see others do too and it's no big deal, sometimes due to the autocorrects or what ever the results can be quite funny to read. I've notice certain individuals on this forum use elaborate wording, and sometimes I have to really do some cypherin to figure out what the crap they are saying. All in all, I'm probably the least educated person on here, no college, but I did take the schooling I had seriously, and tried to make the most of it while I was there.

 

[ChrisB2]

Some people are good at things when alone and not under "pressure" but as soon as they know someone is watching them they struggle. I'm sure pretty much everyone of us figured out the correct change from the original post in a second or two; but if someone is standing in front of us waiting it might be a different outcome. Similar to shooting free throws in an empty gym compared to having 16,000 screaming fans in there.

 

[Brute 23]

Some people are good at things when alone and not under "pressure" but as soon as they know someone is watching them they struggle. I'm sure pretty much everyone of us figured out the correct change from the original post in a second or two; but if someone is standing in front of us waiting it might be a different outcome. Similar to shooting free throws in an empty gym compared to having 16,000 screaming fans in there.

That use to happen to me when I was gauging. Bosses or who ever would walk up and say how much gas did this well make and I would be like... uh... uh... uh. I felt stupid and some even made smart comments. Over time I learned to look at my papers before I talked to them or have them handy if they called. If I got caught of guard I learned to say... I get like 500 readings day it's hard to remember one like that but I will look real quick if you like? That usually passified them.

 

[bigbluegrass]

I remember a math test. It was a higher math class (Algebra or Calculus). I got everything correct, except that at one point I added 2 + 3 and got 4. Obviously I got the wrong answer. After getting that problem wrong, I started using a calculator on all of the math tests for even the simplest math problems. We were always allowed to use the calculator and were required to have one for certain problems, I just didn't because I thought I was better than that.

Honestly, I have a hard time making change. I love math and always have. But something about somebody standing their with their hand out just makes me unable to do simple math. Lucky for me, I have never had a job where I needed to make change every day, all day.

 

[alacowman1]

Some people are good at things when alone and not under "pressure" but as soon as they know someone is watching them they struggle. I'm sure pretty much everyone of us figured out the correct change from the original post in a second or two; but if someone is standing in front of us waiting it might be a different outcome. Similar to shooting free throws in an empty gym compared to having 16,000 screaming fans in there.

When I use to rodeo the fans put more pressure on me mentally. than the other competitors..could practice at home like Roy cooper..hit the arena,and I was like ""hillbilly out if his element""

 

[Brute 23]

At work I leaned to always have a system and follow that system. Develope your system in the down time so when you are in a high pressure situation you revert to it. That always made training people easier also because I could hand them the system.

When I was taught math if you had 10.00 and wanted to subtract 5.46 they would have you start with ten and picture the ten over the 5.46 in your head and borrow from the 1 then remember the 9s all this stuff. it was emphasized to do it one paper. It was a PIA and I wasnt that great at it. Over time I learned my own ways from doing basic math, all day long, daily... especially since it was ft and in.

Now if I see that same math problem I'm going to start at the bottom and say it takes .04 to get to 5.50... .50 to get to 6.00 and 4.00 to get to 10.00.... 4.54. My brain sees that easier and I can do it in a fraction of the time in my head.

If that cashier would have been taught a system and started with 4 pennies, then 2 quarters, and then 4 dollar bills, then check what's in their hand vs the number on the register, their odds of getting it right would have been higher.

That is actually how they are trying to teach kids now days to do math which IMO is actually better. Seeing how they are teaching it is screwed up though also, IMO. Once I see how they are wanting it done on Google, I can reword it with an example to my son and he gets it better.

A big issue with the math is I dont think they have fine tuned the best way to present that style of math because it is fairly new. Plus, you have a lot of teachers who grew up doing it a different way trying to teach the new way. Over time it should get better... and it has.

 

[herofan]

Ate lunch at cracker barrel. Ticket came to $ 15.02 . Gave the cashier who was young man I would guess to be in his mid 20's a twenty dollar Bill.

A girl about the same age was standing beside him whom I guess was sort of like a shift supervisor. There was one of thoes bowls that you could leave loose change ( penny's) or take a penny or two rather than bust a dollar bill for a penny.

I didn't have any change loose change. I handed the cashier a $ 20 bill and assumed the cashier would take two penny's from the bowl and give me $ 5 back.

He gave me back a $ 1.45 ? The young lady chimed in and told him that wasn't the right change. The second time he gave $ 3 and some change AFTER trying to figure in his head for 2 or 3 minutes.

Then the young lady stepped in and gave me a $ 5 dollar bill, took 2 penny's out of the penny bowl. She apologized and said the guy was new and they were still training him ?

Had a similar incident happen a week earlier at another restraunt. And i have seen other kids like that use a calculator to figure how much change to give back.

I think modern education isn't very good. Computer training in both schools and work places isn't any good either in my opinion.

I will say that one act doesn't define a person. It's possible that he could work Algebra problems like nobody's business. He may be a future doctor, business-owner, or engineer, and be a great one. It could be that he was nervous being a new employee, he just isn't good with math in his head, or perhaps he has a learning disability but decided to try to work instead of draw a check. Give him a while, and he may be managing the place; who knows.

Even being a genius in math, or any area, doesn't guarantee success, just the same as appearing to be lacking in some areas doesn't guarantee failure. My daughter went to high school with a guy who constantly impressed her with his math skills. He was great with multi-step problems in his head and made the top score in math on the ACT; however, he dropped out of college, and is living at home just doing odds and ends at age 23.

I know we live in a culture where people constantly attempt to show how smart they are and are always looking for others to slip up to display how dumb they are. I try to realize that I don't know other's situation. Maybe they are nervous, having a bad day, or maybe they just had a brain freeze and said or done something that seemed silly. It probably won't ruin their life as a whole.

I like these Einstein quotes:

"Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish on it's ability to climb a tree, it will live it's whole life believing that it is stupid."

"The only thing you absolutely have to know is the location of the library."

"I can is 100 times more important than I.Q."

"I speak to everyone in the same way whether he is the garbage man or the president of a university."

 

[504RP]

504RP You complain about young people not being able to make change. However, your third post in this thread is full of double negatives. I am not the grammar police because I am far from prefect. Just thought I would point that out. Along with math they also should teach proper grammar in school.

Oh Dave I will be the first to admit my grammar, spelling,punctuation etc..., is by far incorrect in more ways than i care to say.

On the flip side i am sure someone well versed in these subjects could easily find fault and error in yours along with every one else that post on this fourm.

I am not saying I am perfect. Actually find it sort of amazing with what little i do manage with my meager knowledge of grammar, spelling etc..., that i have gotten through life as well as i have. I made straight A in English all the way through high school as did most of the others that i graduated with. Thus the reason for that was I had a English teacher who found it easier I guess to pass all of her students with high marks than to in my opinion fail thoes of us who didn't actually learn anything in her class.

But Dave i have have been earning well over 6 figured for over 30 years now, my net worth is well over a million dollar's. Earned all of that without any governments.

I did learn some when i went to school. Sure glad I can count out change in this day and time.

I know of tons of people with college degrees that haven't done very well at all.

 

[Ryder]

Some students put out no effort in school. No matter how good a teacher is, if there is no desire, motivation or effort by the student, not much learning will happen by that student. I see the same characteristics in some adults in the working world. Just putting in their time with little effort to be productive. I would bet that young man sat in classrooms with other students who put out some effort then, and can make change, kind of like the young lady in your story. You can blame modern education if you want, I blame modern society and personal attitudes.

From what I can hear lack of motivation is the big problem. That goes for students, teachers and parents. So many times technical instruction is substituted for teaching. They are not the same. Teaching involves leadership and human motivation as well as technical instruction. A computer or a book can instruct but it takes a good teacher to put life into it.

The more "free" schooling becomes, the less incentive by students and parents to care. Why should they care? They have nothing invested.

 

[504RP]

I will say that one act doesn't define a person. It's possible that he could work Algebra problems like nobody's business. He may be a future doctor, business-owner, or engineer, and be a great one. It could be that he was nervous being a new employee, he just isn't good with math in his head, or perhaps he has a learning disability but decided to try to work instead of draw a check. Give him a while, and he may be managing the place; who knows.

Even being a genius in math, or any area, doesn't guarantee success, just the same as appearing to be lacking in some areas doesn't guarantee failure. My daughter went to high school with a guy who constantly impressed her with his math skills. He was great with multi-step problems in his head and made the top score in math on the ACT; however, he dropped out of college, and is living at home just doing odds and ends at age 23.

I know we live in a culture where people constantly attempt to show how smart they are and are always looking for others to slip up to display how dumb they are. I try to realize that I don't know other's situation. Maybe they are nervous, having a bad day, or maybe they just had a brain freeze and said or done something that seemed silly. It probably won't ruin their life as a whole.

I like these Einstein quotes:

"Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish on it's ability to climb a tree, it will live it's whole life believing that it is stupid."

"The only thing you absolutely have to know is the location of the library."

"I can is 100 times more important than I.Q."

"I speak to everyone in the same way whether he is the garbage man or the president of a university."

Lol !!! I guess anything is possible. But on the flip side may not turn out to be none of thoes things ? Which as simple as that transaction was and personally being there in person to see for myself what happened. I am going to lean more toward the young man had trouble doing simple math in his head.

As far as thoes quotes that are from Einstien I will have look thoes up for myself before i beleive he made such statements.

But anything I guess is possible. Maybe that young man will be able to lay golden eggs some day too !!! Lol !!!