MINERAL QUESTION

[simangus23]

Tex you asked for help with your mineral--- dont believe that your feed company puts plenty of Ca in your mineral because "it is cheap" your first Post is confusing and incorrect information: "
"Excess calcium also restricts absorption of phosphorus. (wrong) Excess phosphorus will restrict absorption of phosphorus. (wrong) Making mineral is like making a cake and doing it right.(Irrelevant) You need the proper amount of each ingredient balanced as there are many ingredients that effect utilization of other ingredients(true) in both positive and negative ways.(redundant)
Let's take some Purina Hi Mg mineral---- 14 % Mg 8% Ca 4 % P and NO Vitam D3 (psssstttt that is a 2:1 ratio) and furthermore you know what that does to Ca uptake? Well I know you don't, but what that does is Phosphorus (P) is elevated in the bloodstream and it is a limiting factor to Ca uptake and without any Vitamin D3 to help with your "balance of ingredients" you get a resulting Milk Fever incident where the cow needs what? CALCUM

Call me Professor from now on kid
LOL Sim

 

[Jovid]

Tex you asked for help with your mineral--- dont believe that your feed company puts plenty of Ca in your mineral because "it is cheap" your first Post is confusing and incorrect information: "
"Excess calcium also restricts absorption of phosphorus. (wrong) Excess phosphorus will restrict absorption of phosphorus. (wrong) Making mineral is like making a cake and doing it right.(Irrelevant) You need the proper amount of each ingredient balanced as there are many ingredients that effect utilization of other ingredients(true) in both positive and negative ways.(redundant)
Let's take some Purina Hi Mg mineral---- 14 % Mg 8% Ca 4 % P and NO Vitam D3 (psssstttt that is a 2:1 ratio) and furthermore you know what that does to Ca uptake? Well I know you don't, but what that does is Phosphorus (P) is elevated in the bloodstream and it is a limiting factor to Ca uptake and without any Vitamin D3 to help with your "balance of ingredients" you get a resulting Milk Fever incident where the cow needs what? CALCUM

Call me Professor from now on kid
LOL Sim

Another fine post by Simangus :lol2: :lol2:

Today he is an expert in mineral production and consumption. The other day he was giving veterinarian advice. WOW a veterinarian mineral expert professor. :lol2: :lol2:

When I grow up I want to be just like SimAngus. :banana: NOT

 

[TexasBred]

Tex you asked for help with your mineral--- dont believe that your feed company puts plenty of Ca in your mineral because "it is cheap" your first Post is confusing and incorrect information: "
"Excess calcium also restricts absorption of phosphorus. (wrong) Excess phosphorus will restrict absorption of phosphorus. (wrong) Making mineral is like making a cake and doing it right.(Irrelevant) You need the proper amount of each ingredient balanced as there are many ingredients that effect utilization of other ingredients(true) in both positive and negative ways.(redundant)
Let's take some Purina Hi Mg mineral---- 14 % Mg 8% Ca 4 % P and NO Vitam D3 (psssstttt that is a 2:1 ratio) and furthermore you know what that does to Ca uptake? Well I know you don't, but what that does is Phosphorus (P) is elevated in the bloodstream and it is a limiting factor to Ca uptake and without any Vitamin D3 to help with your "balance of ingredients" you get a resulting Milk Fever incident where the cow needs what? CALCUM

Call me Professor from now on kid
LOL Sim

Well Professor, since you apparently failed the course as evidenced by this idiotic post it seems you need further instruction and since you don't believe me I'll cut and paste some research information for you to read. Study it. You can't learn by osmosis.

Cows should be kept on a low calcium diet while they are dry (not lactating).

This stimulates their calcium regulatory system to keep the blood levels normal by mobilising the body stores of calcium from the bone. When the demand for calcium increases at calving, calcium can then be mobilised much more rapidly from bone than from the feed therefore preventing milk fever.

Research has shown that cows with low blood magnesium levels have a greater chance of getting milk fever. There is evidence to suggest that a magnesium supplement such as magnesium oxide, will also help prevent milk fever. Magnesium oxide should be fed at the rate of 50g per cow per day, from at least 10 days prior to calving. Then feed a calcium supplement after calving to prevent further problems at 50g calcium/cow/day.

Another preventative treatment has been developed using anionic salts. This appears to work well when it is possible to formulate the total ration that the cow eats, eg; housed cows. A metabolic acidosis is created in the animal by feeding the anionic salts. This aids the absorption of calcium from bone to meet requirements after calving. In pasture based systems this is not easily achieved because of the variation of anion and cation levels in different pastures. The effect of anionic salts, which are generally unpalatable, in this situation is questionable but in some cases may be effective.

Now either go back to school and take some post graduate coures in animal nutrition and quit posting idiotic information to the board. As for the Purina mineral, Vitamin D is insignificant in most minerals as well as feeds. Most animals and humans manufacture enough Vitamin D from sunlight to meet their daily needs. Personally in an ideal situation for my "close up" cows I'd feed a mineral with a 1:2 calcium/phos ratio. Now go figure that out. :dunce:

 

[simangus23]

1:2 --you are truly an idiot

Ok moving on as this does no good for anyone

 

[TexasBred]

1:2 --you are truly an idiot

Ok moving on as this does no good for anyone

Now be honest.. If you've never seen a 1:2 close up dry cow mineral then you've never milked dairy cattle either. Now go study a bit more and let me know when you're ready for the quiz. :dunce:

 

[hrbelgians]

Tex you asked for help with your mineral--- dont believe that your feed company puts plenty of Ca in your mineral because "it is cheap" your first Post is confusing and incorrect information: "
"Excess calcium also restricts absorption of phosphorus. (wrong) Excess phosphorus will restrict absorption of phosphorus. (wrong) Making mineral is like making a cake and doing it right.(Irrelevant) You need the proper amount of each ingredient balanced as there are many ingredients that effect utilization of other ingredients(true) in both positive and negative ways.(redundant)
Let's take some Purina Hi Mg mineral---- 14 % Mg 8% Ca 4 % P and NO Vitam D3 (psssstttt that is a 2:1 ratio) and furthermore you know what that does to Ca uptake? Well I know you don't, but what that does is Phosphorus (P) is elevated in the bloodstream and it is a limiting factor to Ca uptake and without any Vitamin D3 to help with your "balance of ingredients" you get a resulting Milk Fever incident where the cow needs what? CALCUM

Call me Professor from now on kid
LOL Sim

Hey Sim,
Would you be so kind as post a copy of your ideal mineral tag for us??
Thanks in advance.

 

[simangus23]

Ideal Mineral for what? Dairy cattle? Beef cattle? pls specify.

 

[JMichal]

The only way to come up with the ideal mineral is to do complete feed test. Hay and or grain.

 

[hrbelgians]

Ideal Mineral for what? Dairy cattle? Beef cattle? pls specify.

Sorry Man,
Beef cow/calf pairs on grass.

 

[TexasBred]

The only way to come up with the ideal mineral is to do complete feed test. Hay and or grain.

In theory this is true but seldom will a feed company manufacturer a custom mineral for each customer without requiring us to buy the whole batch which may be 2-3-4 tons. Most of us don't have operations complex enough to justify a lactating mineral, dry cow mineral and close up dry cow mineral like the larger more well managed dairy operations will use. Also milk fever is not that prevalent in beef cattle. Everyone will have a case at some time but not a serious problem so most times your good 12-12 minerals will be adequate. Just make sure both minerals and vitamins are in a sufficiently high level to give you benefit.

 

[JMichal]

The only way to come up with the ideal mineral is to do complete feed test. Hay and or grain.

In theory this is true but seldom will a feed company manufacturer a custom mineral for each customer without requiring us to buy the whole batch which may be 2-3-4 tons. Most of us don't have operations complex enough to justify a lactating mineral, dry cow mineral and close up dry cow mineral like the larger more well managed dairy operations will use. Also milk fever is not that prevalent in beef cattle. Everyone will have a case at some time but not a serious problem so most times your good 12-12 minerals will be adequate. Just make sure both minerals and vitamins are in a sufficiently high level to give you benefit.

You don't need to have it custom made. If you know what your feeding you can buy a commercial bag mineral that fits what you are feeding. A 12-12 may be great if your on pasture or hay. If you are on full grain feed you may want something that is a 2 to 1, or 3 to 1 calcium to phos ratio. If you have 3rd trimester or lactating cattle they should be getting something with about 12-8. And then you need to switch to a high mag now to help with Tetany. 2 cows allready died last week from it here in SW MO. Vet Confirmed. I went and got a mag phos that I use in spring and fall, when coolseason grasses take off. I think it helps to switch em around some, because different minerals stay in the body longer or shorter.

 

[TexasBred]

As I said "most times your good 12-12 minerals will be adequate". There will always be exceptions. Cattle being fed "full grain feed" should get a ration that has sufficient vitamins and minerals formulated into that ration to meet their needs. If I had the necessary pasture and set up I'd probably feed those 3rd trimester cattle even less calcium and phos than 12/8 but would keep the 3/2 ratio if possible. Unfortunately I have one pasture and have to put out mineral that meets the needs of the majority of the cattle. All in all vitamin and mineral deficiencies haven't been a probelm.

 

[JMichal]

As I said "most times your good 12-12 minerals will be adequate". There will always be exceptions. Cattle being fed "full grain feed" should get a ration that has sufficient vitamins and minerals formulated into that ration to meet their needs. If I had the necessary pasture and set up I'd probably feed those 3rd trimester cattle even less calcium and phos than 12/8 but would keep the 3/2 ratio if possible. Unfortunately I have one pasture and have to put out mineral that meets the needs of the majority of the cattle. All in all vitamin and mineral deficiencies haven't been a probelm.

12/8 you probably feed at 2 oz per head. Usually if you go down it is cheaper but requires 4 oz per head. Some even require 6 oz per head.

 

[dalebarber]

VITAFERM ROUGHAGE FORTIFIER YEAR ROUND, YOU WILL NEVER GO WRONG, NEVER SCRIMP ON MINERAL TODAYS COST ARE AROUND 10 TO 13 CENTS A DAY, NOT MUCH FOR A $700.00 CALF.