Mineral: I'm Obviously Doing It Wrong

[cowman82]

How our current mix stacks to yours:View attachment 55561

i'd get a new mineral. those vitamin amounts are pretty low.

 

[angus9259]

Mineral is the boogey man for all things we can't explain.

 

[Allenw]

We mix salt with our mineral.

So do I at times but salt can also be a limiting factor on consumption in some soils.

 

[NIdahoShorthorns]

I know you disagree with my opinion it may be toxicity, but I'm going to restate it because toxicity and deficiency can each manifest as the other. Others have indicated this too, your cows may be refusing mineral because they are ingesting enough; that doesn't mean they are absorbing it properly. In addition to mineral toxicity, you indicated you moved these cows from an overgrazed pasture; I'd be looking in that pasture at the plants that were left. Bluebonnet, hemlock, yew, to name a few, are all toxic plants that might exist and could cause similar symptoms. All pastures have some toxic plants, usually these are of little to no concern, but if you overgraze and these are all that's left then that's what they eat. I'd suspect the problem occurred at least a month or two before calving(early in last trimester), what was happening then?

 

[Travlr]

Maybe they don't.

It looks like we have a much bigger problem on our hands if they don't.

The only issue you have is finding what the problem(s) is. Don't get caught up in thinking you have an easy and simple solution to a complex problem.
The only way you will know anything for sure is to have some tests run.

"Trace" minerals means they are very, very, small amounts. Much like sailors back in the day found out that vitamin C prevented scurvy and they kept a dried apple to suck on once in awhile. If your cows have been eating a good mineral supplement and stopped... it doesn't mean they need more minerals right away. A mineral load lasts in the body for some amount of time. It doesn't just go away in a week, and it doesn't need replacing daily.

Some of the things you've described sounds more like congenital abnormalities that could be the result of any number of things. Contracted tendons, etc...

 

[SBMF 2015]

Mineral is the boogey man for all things we can't explain.

Good mineral also fixes problems you don't know exist yet.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

The only issue you have is finding what the problem(s) is. Don't get caught up in thinking you have an easy and simple solution to a complex problem.
The only way you will know anything for sure is to have some tests run.

"Trace" minerals means they are very, very, small amounts. Much like sailors back in the day found out that vitamin C prevented scurvy and they kept a dried apple to suck on once in awhile. If your cows have been eating a good mineral supplement and stopped... it doesn't mean they need more minerals right away. A mineral load lasts in the body for some amount of time. It doesn't just go away in a week, and it doesn't need replacing daily.

Some of the things you've described sounds more like congenital abnormalities that could be the result of any number of things. Contracted tendons, etc...

Be careful with assuming the mineral load lasts in the body for a long time. Generally, yes. Magnesium deficiency in the case of grass tetany occurs alarmingly quickly and there is not a large reserve in the body. I know of a case where a producer lost 4 cows and had 2 more go down (they were saved by a vet) in a matter of less than 5 hours, out of 28 cows total.

 

[Dave]

Be careful with assuming the mineral load lasts in the body for a long time. Generally, yes. Magnesium deficiency in the case of grass tetany occurs alarmingly quickly and there is not a large reserve in the body. I know of a case where a producer lost 4 cows and had 2 more go down (they were saved by a vet) in a matter of less than 5 hours, out of 28 cows total.

The threat of grass tetany is very easy to avoid. Just put out high mag minerals a few weeks before turn out in the spring. It may have occurred quickly but it was not because they had been out of magnesium for a short time.

 

[Brute 23]

The threat of grass tetany is very easy to avoid. Just put out high mag minerals a few weeks before turn out in the spring. It may have occurred quickly but it was not because they had been out of magnesium for a short time.

The person probably didn't want to waste money on mineral.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

We mix salt with our mineral.

At what ratio do you mix yours?

 

[4hfarms]

You said the mineral had been out and not consumed.
Have you changed it out, start with fresh, in small quantities. When you do, will they consume more, until it rains again?
Has there been weather events like high winds, rain etc? Mine will not touch the loose after a good rain and a day of sun. It bakes and gets hard. Only give them enough to consume on a short basis. Get something that smells. Wind and rain is good! The non molasses tubs,, smell like I would lick them. My cows use it up when they need it but when grass is good they seldom use it.

 

[Dave]

You said the mineral had been out and not consumed.
Have you changed it out, start with fresh, in small quantities. When you do, will they consume more, until it rains again?
Has there been weather events like high winds, rain etc? Mine will not touch the loose after a good rain and a day of sun. It bakes and gets hard. Only give them enough to consume on a short basis. Get something that smells. Wind and rain is good! The non molasses tubs,, smell like I would lick them. My cows use it up when they need it but when grass is good they seldom use it.

Either use Wind and Rain or have a mineral feeder designed to keep the rain out. Not much consumption once the minerals set up like concrete.

 

[Travlr]

Be careful with assuming the mineral load lasts in the body for a long time. Generally, yes. Magnesium deficiency in the case of grass tetany occurs alarmingly quickly and there is not a large reserve in the body. I know of a case where a producer lost 4 cows and had 2 more go down (they were saved by a vet) in a matter of less than 5 hours, out of 28 cows total.

Yeah, a cheap yellow mag block in March instead of the red blocks can prepare your cows for the spring flush.

 

[elkwc]

I haven't been able to get the cows in any of our sets to eat mineral for weeks.

Quite a few cows are about to lose their places on our roster. I hate that because I try so hard to help them be productive so they can stay on the payroll. At the same time, I'm mad at them because I'm seeing the the consequences of their actions in their offspring.

Our biggest set of cows, 147 head, was 74.5% calved out as of Saturday which was day #20 of their calving season. Of those born babies, about 5.5% are presenting vitamin and mineral deficiencies that are not easy to watch. I

I'm sure we'll be losing even more who don't breed because of lacking vitamins and mineral.

How can I get them to eat the mineral? Or is it too late to make a difference by May?

What mineral do you feed? We have found our cows and calves don't consume some minerals we have tried. One of the reasons we have used Vita Ferm for several years. We consistently have a weaned calf crop above 95%.

 

[GoWyo]

I just keep a sack of mag oxide around and start mixing it in the mineral 30 days before green grass. The best grass tetany prevention I have found is to throw a round bale of crappy grass hay or straw out in the pasture. Grass tetany seems to happen when there is a shortage of dry matter in fast growing new grass that lacks residual cover to provide the needed dry matter.

 

[Spot & Bubby]

In the time this thread has been going on I could have had a MM shot in every single one of them and the calves.

If only I had your knowledge and wisdom!

i'd get a new mineral. those vitamin amounts are pretty low.

I put a new kind out for every set yesterday.

Mineral is the boogey man for all things we can't explain.

I know you disagree with my opinion it may be toxicity, but I'm going to restate it because toxicity and deficiency can each manifest as the other. Others have indicated this too, your cows may be refusing mineral because they are ingesting enough; that doesn't mean they are absorbing it properly. In addition to mineral toxicity, you indicated you moved these cows from an overgrazed pasture; I'd be looking in that pasture at the plants that were left. Bluebonnet, hemlock, yew, to name a few, are all toxic plants that might exist and could cause similar symptoms. All pastures have some toxic plants, usually these are of little to no concern, but if you overgraze and these are all that's left then that's what they eat. I'd suspect the problem occurred at least a month or two before calving(early in last trimester), what was happening then?

We didn't move this set of cows and their calves because of overgrazing. We moved them to prevent it. 120ish cows and calves came to the home place, but 14 bulls joined the four who were already there. It seems like only a few months ago, but that was way back in July. There are toxic plants (we struggle with nightshade) where they were two months before calving, which is about the time all of the herds stopped taking mineral. But the pastures they have been in have not been overgrazed. We actually left a few pastures ungrazed trying to get to calving grounds in time. With the exception of one calf, all of the abnormalities have occurred within the set that moved. The other calf is about 2 miles from this set. There are abnormalities within the set we moved them to: two oversized, stillborn calves. Hopefully we'll be handling those bloodtests today.

You said the mineral had been out and not consumed.
Have you changed it out, start with fresh, in small quantities. When you do, will they consume more, until it rains again?
Has there been weather events like high winds, rain etc? Mine will not touch the loose after a good rain and a day of sun. It bakes and gets hard. Only give them enough to consume on a short basis. Get something that smells. Wind and rain is good! The non molasses tubs,, smell like I would lick them. My cows use it up when they need it but when grass is good they seldom use it.

I refresh mineral after rain events and every time the herd moves to new water. I put out small amounts because I move it myself and I'm not alarmingly strong for a 52 year old, 150 pound woman. I've been hauling out the same amount I've been hauling in.

Either use Wind and Rain or have a mineral feeder designed to keep the rain out. Not much consumption once the minerals set up like concrete.

my local store carry it, but I'll look for it.

What mineral do you feed? We have found our cows and calves don't consume some minerals we have tried. One of the reasons we have used Vita Ferm for several years. We consistently have a weaned calf crop above 95%.

all of the cows here have been consuming our usual, nutrition Plus 2 s, up until around Christmas. We weaned at about 92% last year.

I just keep a sack of mag oxide around and start mixing it in the mineral 30 days before green grass. The best grass tetany prevention I have found is to throw a round bale of crappy grass hay or straw out in the pasture. Grass tetany seems to happen when there is a shortage of dry matter in fast growing new grass that lacks residual cover to provide the needed dry matter.

We keep baled hay out when they have new grass or are on wheat.




Everyone got new mineral yesterday. Red Chain 2 to 1 or 1 to 1. Girls were lined up to try it.

 

[Spot & Bubby]

Had a talk with Bossman about my concerns regarding mineral as well as other possible causes of abnormalities in the calves. He asked a lot of questions but didn't say much otherwise. Then he messaged me at lunch to say that he has made an appointment for me with a nutritionist to meet Wednesday to get samples and test everywhere we run cattle and/or harvest from. Getting samples from a selection of cows & calves from each set for bloodwork, too. I'm to address all concerns with the nutritionist with full liberty.

And we're going to Multi-Min.

I guess I made a good argument.

 

[Brute 23]

Had a talk with Bossman about my concerns regarding mineral as well as other possible causes of abnormalities in the calves. He asked a lot of questions but didn't say much otherwise. Then he messaged me at lunch to say that he has made an appointment for me with a nutritionist to meet Wednesday to get samples and test everywhere we run cattle and/or harvest from. Getting samples from a selection of cows & calves from each set for bloodwork, too. I'm to address all concerns with the nutritionist with full liberty.

And we're going to Multi-Min.

I guess I made a good argument.

Good deal. With those kind of losses you have to make some moves. We had to do some thing simular 5-10 years ago with a problem we had. At the time it seemed expensive but the best money we spent was getting with a good vet involved to address the problem and make a plan for going forward.

 

[angus9259]

Good mineral also fixes problems you don't know exist yet.

Yes. That's why I put it out (no sarcasm - one of my highest annual expenses). It keeps fixing problems I didn't know I had. Just like the dealers tell me it will. Ironically, I didn't have the problems before I started spending the money either. But I'm sure I've prevented a ton of problems in the meantime (sarcasm). I actually have no idea what problems I've prevented.

 

[Spot & Bubby]

Good deal. With those kind of losses you have to make some moves. We had to do some thing simular 5-10 years ago with a problem we had. At the time it seemed expensive but the best money we spent was getting with a good vet involved to address the problem and make a plan for going forward.

Yes, something has to be done and sooner than later. It's too late to fix calving issues. I hope there's time to set us up for better breeding and weaning outcomes... If my theory is even partially correct that is.