Mineral Block Vs. Loose

[TexasBred]

Jim they'll need and use the mag during the times of lush grazing such as winter pasture you've planted and early spring grazing so it is good to switch to a Hi-Mag during those times. The cah ration doesn't matter that much as they don't affect the mag utilization too much. Just don't get one that has highly elevated potassium and sodium or it will inhibit the use of the mag. There are companies that do formulate minerals for the "seasons' but often hard to find one formulated specifically for a specific situation unless you can find a mill willing to make small batches. Jeanne glad to see you're using the chelates. You usually don't see the damage done from cattle not being fed minerals until a wreck is already in progress. Cow health, conception rates, health of newborns, early death of calves, weaning weights, etc...very inexpensive insurance even for a very large opeation.

 

[novatech]

Jim they'll need and use the mag during the times of lush grazing such as winter pasture you've planted and early spring grazing so it is good to switch to a Hi-Mag during those times. The cah ration doesn't matter that much as they don't affect the mag utilization too much. Just don't get one that has highly elevated potassium and sodium or it will inhibit the use of the mag. There are companies that do formulate minerals for the "seasons' but often hard to find one formulated specifically for a specific situation unless you can find a mill willing to make small batches. Jeanne glad to see you're using the chelates. You usually don't see the damage done from cattle not being fed minerals until a wreck is already in progress. Cow health, conception rates, health of newborns, early death of calves, weaning weights, etc...very inexpensive insurance even for a very large opeation.

I have always gone to a high P mineral when they are grazing clover. Clover is high in calcium and low in P. I have always heard that calcium and phosphorus should be at about at a 1.5 to 1 ratio.
Why is more mag important?

 

[TexasBred]

Nova the 1.5:1 cah should be fine. There are no perfect mineals so we usually just aim for "ranges" in the numbers. Many minerals are formulated at 2:1, some or 1:1 and even 1:2 calh but if you feeding something extremely high in calcium in addition to the mineral the ratio changes somewhat. Not a lot but some. We all need a certain amount of magnesium and as already mentioned, most winter pastures (wheat,rye) contain very little mag so we supplement with mineral. The same for early spring grasses. Reduces the incidence of grass tetany. Even tho your clover may contain a lot of calcium increasing ph by a large amount is not necessary. You can buy minerals that outwardly are "perfect' for your situation. Unfortunatley it's next to impossible to make sure each and every cow gets exactly the amount we want them to get so we simply aim at the bullseye and ordinarily if you simply hit the target that's close enough.

 

[Lucky_P]

Depending upon where you live, the red/brown 'trace mineral' salt blocks may or may not supply adequate levels of some of the essential micronutrients like copper and selenium, and may actually make some deficiencies worse.
In my part of the world, soils - and forages grown on them - are deficient in copper and selenium, but not iron. Iron oxide is added in high levels as a cheap filler/coloring agent to those T/M salt blocks; FeO is almost totally useless as an source of utilizable iron - but it will fulfill the 'chemical analysis' for Fe - and also effectively competes with copper for absorption sites in the intestine. So...an iron-rich T/M salt block may actually make copper deficiency in cattle worse than if they just had access to a plain white salt block.

 

[TexasBred]

Depending upon where you live, the red/brown 'trace mineral' salt blocks may or may not supply adequate levels of some of the essential micronutrients like copper and selenium, and may actually make some deficiencies worse.
In my part of the world, soils - and forages grown on them - are deficient in copper and selenium, but not iron. Iron oxide is added in high levels as a cheap filler/coloring agent to those T/M salt blocks; FeO is almost totally useless as an source of utilizable iron - but it will fulfill the 'chemical analysis' for Fe - and also effectively competes with copper for absorption sites in the intestine. So...an iron-rich T/M salt block may actually make copper deficiency in cattle worse than if they just had access to a plain white salt block.

Any company adding iron to mineral in a copper deficient area is pretty out of touch. In reality very few areas need added iron in either a mineral or a finished feed. The red iron oxide added for color is minimal and not a filler. Just something to give color and differentiate the mineral from other things. Other than that it has o real purpose. The main thing to remember about trace mineral salt blocks is that regardless of the color it's a "salt block". Yellow blocks have a hint of sulfur...trace mineral blocks have a "trace" of a couple of minerals. Do not ever depend on them as a balanced mineral supplement.

 

[pdfangus]

Jim they'll need and use the mag during the times of lush grazing such as winter pasture you've planted and early spring grazing so it is good to switch to a Hi-Mag during those times. The cah ration doesn't matter that much as they don't affect the mag utilization too much. Just don't get one that has highly elevated potassium and sodium or it will inhibit the use of the mag. There are companies that do formulate minerals for the "seasons' but often hard to find one formulated specifically for a specific situation unless you can find a mill willing to make small batches. Jeanne glad to see you're using the chelates. You usually don't see the damage done from cattle not being fed minerals until a wreck is already in progress. Cow health, conception rates, health of newborns, early death of calves, weaning weights, etc...very inexpensive insurance even for a very large opeation.

TB

I think we are singing different verses of the same song.
magnesium blood levels are the key factor in heading off grass tetany. if a cow has a consistent and adequate source of utilizable magnesium in her diet and thus in her blood levels then in my experience the high spring magnesium levels are not necessary.

Truth is many commercial minerals do not have adequate magnesium in their base formulation. I have not kept up with changes in mineral interrelationships and how one effects the utilization of another like I did years ago and I know it is an evolving science. My old 2 : 1 : 1 cal : phos : mag ratio was from years ago but sticking with it for 35 years, I have never had any mineral related problems or any grass tettany. In fact fresh out of college I solved a bad grass tetany problem by convincing the boss to let me mix the mineral. Was a hero for a day or two and when I left three years later we were still mixing mineral for 400 cows by hand. They had been treating cows almost daily in the spring and lost more than a few and I was initally running an orphanage for bottle calves.

I have never tried the chelates but have been tempted many times. Finding a good dependable supply has been an issue for a small herd in country where there are mostly small herds and not professional cattlemen. Our support infrastucture is not good.

Heck my fence charger went out over the weekend and I spent yesterday calling local places to buy a charger or have mine repaired. I ended up ordering a charger from PA and am sending the old gallagher to Tennessee for repairs. thank goodness and (Al Gore....the big dummy) for the internet.

 

[TexasBred]

I think we are singing different verses of the same song.magnesium blood levels are the key factor in heading off grass tetany. if a cow has a consistent and adequate source of utilizable magnesium in her diet and thus in her blood levels then in my experience the high spring magnesium levels are not necessary.

Absolutely true Jim. Mag cannot be stored by the cow so must be fed constantly. Not everyone has grass tetany (I've not had any in ages) but some do annually with the lush grazing. Sometimes fertilizer adds to the problem especially if you use one with a high ;-) potassium content. As for the chelates I personally feel they are well worth the little added cost. Zinpro Corporation has always been the leader in the industry so if a long mill would sell you some you can go back to your own job of "mixing mineral". Albion also makes a good product. Best Wishes. :tiphat:

 

[backhoeboogie]

I just read the article posted on the Cattle Today home page; http://cattletoday.com/archive/2010/Sep ... CT2321.php
They recomend a target weight of 4 oz. per day. I don't see how they could do it with a block.
There is some other good info in the article.
Here is another;
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/beef/as1287w.htm

Yes. Then take a close look at those trace mineral blocks and you'll see some are 97% salt. 50 lb block has 1 1/2 lbs of mineral.

If you are going to skimp on anything, don't let it be minerals.

 

[Double R Ranch]

We use the cargil right now loose minerals.
We had reps from different companies come out to our ranch. We were using the crystalyx tubs and the cattle would spend all day around those tubs. They also were not holding weight like they should and all had a red tinge to there coat.
When the different reps came out they all agreed on certain things. Loose minerals the cow eat what they need. Tubs have molasis in them. That is supposed to "incourage" the cows to eat the minerals. The cows will eat what they need. Just as they know to eat salt (which is also loose) and offered in addition to the minerals so they don't feel like they need to eat the minerals to get extra salt.
After tons of research we decided on the right now minerals. Reasons: they consumed what they needed which at first was quite a bit but as we were told the amount went down to a bag or so every couple months without added sweets. There has been major changes in our cattle.
The mineral changes with the seasons or pasture which fills in gaps while not giving unneeded minerals at the time.
They can be out in troughs in wind, rain etc. We have drain holes in troughs to let water out and it doesn't seem to loose nutriance. It gets harder by the end of winter and we just break it up and it goes back to granuals.
It's been working very well for us for several years.
Just what has worked for us.
Double R

 

[TexasBred]

The Right now mineral is good mineral. But if you'll read the label on the Crystalix tubs and just about all the other high quality tubs, I betcha you'll also see that they recommend you put out a free choice mineral and salt so that the cattle will not overconsume the protein tub in their efforts to satisfy their mineral needs.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

with the grass pretty much gone dorment'''standing hay''' mine are going through the minerals ...like a dose of salt through a widder woman :cowboy:

 

[Douglas]

I had this bright idea to get my bovatec in the mineral for some replacements i have. I feed a little grain each evening and i sprinkled the exact amount of mineral with bavatec i needed over the top. Yesterday if forgot the mineral and the calves turned up their nose at the feed without it. I guess the smell changed and they didn't know what to do. Cows are stupid.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I had this bright idea to get my bovatec in the mineral for some replacements i have. I feed a little grain each evening and i sprinkled the exact amount of mineral with bavatec i needed over the top. Yesterday if forgot the mineral and the calves turned up their nose at the feed without it. I guess the smell changed and they didn't know what to do. Cows are stupid.[/quote] ssshhh.. carefull theres folks that think otherwise :cowboy:

 

[TexasBred]

The mineral probably has some cottonseed meal, distillers grain and/or dried molasses in it. And yep they do smell and taste it.

 

[angus9259]

The Right now mineral is good mineral. But if you'll read the label on the Crystalix tubs and just about all the other high quality tubs, I betcha you'll also see that they recommend you put out a free choice mineral and salt so that the cattle will not overconsume the protein tub in their efforts to satisfy their mineral needs.

They used to have those recommendations but don't any more. I have some crystalyx protein tubs out and was prepared to put out more mineral. Wonder if they've changed the "formula" to incorporate more mineral.

 

[TexasBred]

The Right now mineral is good mineral. But if you'll read the label on the Crystalix tubs and just about all the other high quality tubs, I betcha you'll also see that they recommend you put out a free choice mineral and salt so that the cattle will not overconsume the protein tub in their efforts to satisfy their mineral needs.

They used to have those recommendations but don't any more. I have some crystalyx protein tubs out and was prepared to put out more mineral. Wonder if they've changed the "formula" to incorporate more mineral.

Don't know if they've reformulated the tubs or not. Can't see why they would want to but if you think you're cattle might need more mineral I'd certainly make it available to them.