Milk?

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3waycross":1q7bikdj said:
Herefords.US":1q7bikdj said:
3waycross":1q7bikdj said:
I sure would like to see that in writing from a reputable source. If you are to be believed then there is NO explanation for this cow raising big healthy calves every year since she is 3 points below breed avg.

How about the accuracy level on her milk EPDs? I haven't seen EPDs on a cow yet whose accuracy levels were high enough to really be reliable (.6 or higher)

George

I question that also. I also question that the epd's from one breed are movable to another breed. I have seen a LOT of Gelbvieh cows with below breed avg epd's for milk ,that milk like crazy. That's kinda where I was headed in the first post. I really don't think that a lot of these epd's we see are accurate.

If they were in the case of bulls like Elk Creek Bronco. Their dtrs would NEVER be able to raise a calf.

There may be some Angus cows out there whose EPDs cross that .6 accuracy threshold. But there are Hereford donor cows with 50 progeny or more who don't. And I'll wager it is the same for any other breed - with the possible exception of Angus. EPDs on cows (and unproven bulls) are very little more than speculation and your odds of their being right are much worse than what you'd get on the gaming tables at the casino. The only thing they are really good for is to "sell" her progeny off to someone who's been misinformed that they actually mean something and have some reliability.

George
 
and after looking at the across breed EPD table, it looks like an average Gelbvieh animal that has a Milk EPD of +17 milks the equivalent to a +27 Milk EPD in the Angus breed. so an average Gelbvieh animal would be in the top 15% of the Angus breed for Milk.

is this what you needed?
 
3waycross":1ao03xki said:
The way you look at it there is no point in using EPD's at all at least not for milk.

sure, it's useful; you just have to know how much weight to give it. i always want the information available to me and then i can assign how much value there is to me and use it appropriately.
 
Aero":2bmq7nsa said:
and after looking at the across breed EPD table, it looks like an average Gelbvieh animal that has a Milk EPD of +17 milks the equivalent to a +27 Milk EPD in the Angus breed. so an average Gelbvieh animal would be in the top 15% of the Angus breed for Milk.

is this what you needed?

You are close but way too high Here are the conversions

Across Breed Conversion Tables
Add to convert to an Angus EPD base

December, 2002 Across Breed Conversion to Angus Base
Breed BW WW YW Milk
Gelbvieh 4.6 6.8 -2.7 4.7
Angus 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Red Angus 1.8 0.9 2.4 -1.1
Add to convert to Gelbvieh EPD base
December, 2002 Across Breed Conversion to Gelbvieh Base
Breed BW WW YW Milk
Gelbvieh 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Angus -4.6 -6.8 2.7 -4.7
Red Angus -2.8 -5.4 5.1 -5.8


Taken from the AGA website and used with permission


The conversion from Gelbvieh to Angus is more like a plus 4.7 so a avg Gelbvieh epd of 17 for milk comverts to a 21.4 for an Angus.
 
Aero":3anac25m said:
3waycross":3anac25m said:
You are close but way too high Here are the conversions

Across Breed Conversion Tables
Add to convert to an Angus EPD base

December, 2002 Across Breed Conversion to Angus Base

try to use current info. :welcome:
2009 info: http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Pl ... 09News.pdf

+9.9 from Angus to Gelbvieh.


I'll use my numbers and you can use yours. Don't forget garbage in garbage out. As usual Aero you believe you are the last word on EVERYTHING

Improved Across Breed conversions

The new MBE methodology allowed AGA to compare EPD differences among Gelbvieh animals, Angus animals and Red Angus animals within the analysis. Historically, the AGA and the beef industry was forced to rely on data from the Meat

Animal Research Center (MARC) in order to convert EPDs from Gelbvieh to either Angus or Red Angus or vice versa. While the MARC data was the best information available at the time, the data was developed using very small sample sizes at a single location
The AGA across breed conversions were developed using literally thousands of high accuracy Angus and Red Angus sires compared against tens of thousands of Gelbvieh sires in hundreds of contemporary groups across the entire United States. We

recommend that you use the following across breed conversion table when converting Gelbvieh EPDs to Angus or Red Angus equivalents:
:wave:
 
Aero":2v4y3hyt said:
Herefords.US":2v4y3hyt said:
And I'll wager it is the same for any other breed - with the possible exception of Angus. EPDs on cows (and unproven bulls) are very little more than speculation

Wehrman's 2536 cow has a Milk EPD Acc of .74
http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_det ... d=12716656

Thanks for confirming what I've thought. Can you tell me how many progeny she had? I'm not familiar with how to use the Angus site.

George
 
Herefords.US":32iysifq said:
Aero":32iysifq said:
Herefords.US":32iysifq said:
And I'll wager it is the same for any other breed - with the possible exception of Angus. EPDs on cows (and unproven bulls) are very little more than speculation

Wehrman's 2536 cow has a Milk EPD Acc of .74
http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_det ... d=12716656

Thanks for confirming what I've thought. Can you tell me how many progeny she had? I'm not familiar with how to use the Angus site.

George

86 daughters reporting
 
Aero":2ipnfexl said:
86 daughters reporting

Thanks! I'm guessing that would put her having over 200 progeny. The most I can find for any Hereford cow is 117(HVH Reba 23D) - and her BW EPD is just now starting to approach the .6 accuracy level, with all her other EPDs trailing off in accuracy level.

George
 
Herefords.US":3tajtvit said:
Aero":3tajtvit said:
86 daughters reporting

Thanks! I'm guessing that would put her having over 200 progeny. The most I can find for any Hereford cow is 117(HVH Reba 23D) - and her BW EPD is just now starting to approach the .6 accuracy level, with all her other EPDs trailing off in accuracy level.

George

2536 has a .84 BW EPD and has 208 ultrasound scans on progeny. i havent seen a cow with more registered progeny.
 
cedar":747xkqkz said:
The recent discussion on milk EPD's I think many people missed the mark that big bags mean lots of milk and small milk means no milk when in reality it is not the quantity but the quality. If some of those big bag cows are milked into a bottle and some of the smaller bags are compared after letting it sit, the comparison of the cream is vastly different and has nothing to do with size of the bag.

Never let the size of the udder convince you that a cow will be a high producer.
 
3waycross":snqiq6xe said:
Maternal Milk EPD (Milk), is a predictor of a sire's genetic merit for milk and mothering ability as expressed in his daughters compared to daughters of other sires. In other words, it is that part of a calf's weaning weight attributed to milk and mothering

So one size fits all. I see no verbage here includes the words quality , or butterfat content. I suppose it could be implied but it's for sure not specified.

3way, in my view, "genetic merit" includes milk quality, does not just imply it.
 

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