Milk? where did it go?

[Nesikep]

well, we've had our first issue of the year come up... we had an older cow calf, did it all fine, which is a good thing since she wants to kill you, calf sucked fine, it screamed bloody murder for a full minute when I caught him to band and tag him (cow on the other side of the fence), set out into the small pasture with the rest of them at I guess it was the 3rd day... then at day 5 I noticed it wasn't up and playing with the rest of them, got him and his mother into the chute, made sure he sucked, he looked skinny, I milked the cow out, got about a quart and a half... now, we're starting day 7 and she has NO milk... this is a cow that makes 700 lb steers every year.. what could have caused her to lose her milk? calf was lively and strong, now we're fighting to keep it alive (cashier at the grocery store had to comment on me buying 4 gallons of milk) anyone have any ideas what we can do for the cow and calf? we're milking her out 4 times a day, and at most getting a cup
the only thing we saw her do is eat some pine needles off a tree... could this do anything?

also, is there some brand of milk replacer that isnt completely disgusting?, the stuff we have is so horrid I can't get the stench off my hands, and the calf will have nothing to do with it...

if we can't get this cow to give milk again, her days are numbered, and I guess I will have to try my hand at grafting this guy

 

[milkmaid]

Is the cow eating? drinking?

Is she running a temp?

Are you sure she's not holding up her milk?

If she's eating and not running a temp or acting sick -- then ship her. If she's not eating and not running a temp -- may be a DA or ketosis. She sounds like a high producer (700lb weaning weights) so those could be a possibility. If she's not eating and is running a temp -- check for a uterine infection; did she clean after calving? That's all I can think of off-hand. Good luck.

 

[Roadapple]

Best milk replacer I've found I got from a Peets dealer. Smells good, creamy looking, and calves go crazy for it. $62.00 a bag.

 

[Aaron]

We have always used the 'Big Mama' brand. Although about 4 years ago, we noticed what looked like dried blood in it, so that makes us question the ingredients in it. But calves seem to love it and it smells good. :cowboy:

 

[SRBeef]

We have always used the 'Big Mama' brand. Although about 4 years ago, we noticed what looked like dried blood in it, so that makes us question the ingredients in it. But calves seem to love it and it smells good. :cowboy:

off topic: Aaron, Your comment about seeing dried blood in it reminded me of the worst meal I think I ever had - years ago I was in England for the first time on a business trip. For breakfast I was offered "eggs and sausage" what they didn't tell me was that it was eggs and "blood sausage" - they fry up congealed blood into a "patty" of sorts....no wonder the 13 colonies wanted to split!

 

[hillsdown]

I agree with MM check her for mastitis and ketosis..

Any 20-20-20 or above all milk replacer will be good and the calf will love it..

 

[rockridgecattle]

We quit using Big F Mamma ($65.00-$70 a bag) because it is a soya based product and the calves do not do as good on it. We started buying 20/20/20 from feed rite and now the local co-op will not carry it cause it is too expensive ($100). So we go to the Vet's and get browns. 100% milk protien (on the bag) ($100)
tag reads
crude protien 26%
crude protien from milk source 26%
crude fat 16%
crude fibre 25%
I figure if we are going to the expense and time of bottle feeding might as well do it right.

Check the cow if she cleaned? did she have mastitis?
Is she off her feed?
A shot of oxytocin will let you know if she is holding her milk.

IF she sends you running, ship her, she is not worth it for any reason...experience talking!

 

[dun]

off topic: Aaron, Your comment about seeing dried blood in it reminded me of the worst meal I think I ever had - years ago I was in England for the first time on a business trip. For breakfast I was offered "eggs and sausage" what they didn't tell me was that it was eggs and "blood sausage" - they fry up congealed blood into a "patty" of sorts....no wonder the 13 colonies wanted to split!

What part of WI are you in that you never have had blood sausage? I haven;t had good blood sausage since I left GreenBay, many, many years ago.

 

[KNERSIE]

off topic: Aaron, Your comment about seeing dried blood in it reminded me of the worst meal I think I ever had - years ago I was in England for the first time on a business trip. For breakfast I was offered "eggs and sausage" what they didn't tell me was that it was eggs and "blood sausage" - they fry up congealed blood into a "patty" of sorts....no wonder the 13 colonies wanted to split!

What part of WI are you in that you never have had blood sausage? I haven;t had good blood sausage since I left GreenBay, many, many years ago.

I think SRBeef was talking about black pudding. Its not quite the same thing as blood sausage.

 

[redcowsrule33]

We like the Cow's Match from Land o Lakes. Only drawback is we couldn't get the good stuff w/o antibiotics but we are antibiotic minimalists not organic.

I would get her checked out. But sometimes things just don't work right. Part of farming.

 

[randiliana]

Co-op makes a brand called Purlac. It is what we use. Calves like it, it mixes easy and it doesn't smell. It is all milk. Couldn't tell you the price, we just got a bag, but just charged it to our bill at the coop.

Sometimes old cows just dry up. They just put everything toward themselves to keep themselves going, and the calf gets nothing. I've seen old cows have a calf, and just walk away from it too. Good, old cows that were always good mothers before.

 

[mnmtranching]

I can't see anyone keeping a cow like that in the first place. :frowns: But to have "no milk"
Doesn't seem like a uterine infection would cause no milk within 1 week. I would say the infection would be in the utter and mammary glands to cause O milk. You could treat her with antibiotics, she probably will start milking again, at least some. If she isn't feverish and otherwise healthy I would get RID of the problem before giving antibiotics. As far as milk replacer get the more expensive stuff, I've had no problems.

 

[dun]

Similar but different sort of.
Have a 9 year old cow that has alwasy carried good condition and raised an upper 20% calf. About a month before she calved she started losing condition. No squirts, nothing apparant as to health problem. Good appetite and acted normal. She lost 275 lbs from weaning time last september until this week. He calf is doing OK, not grat buct ok. Cow has very little milk. Mouthed her and her teeth are really good, wormed her and I still don;t see that she has any more milk or that she is putting any condition on.

 

[jcarkie]

when they get old sometimes they just quite. one of my best cows did 2 years ago calf just was not good i thought it was going to die, she gave enough to get by and raised the the knotty headed heifer, i sold her that fall. sometimes they stop breeding and sometimes the calves just go to pot. that is why we keep replacements every year. i hate to sell the good old gals but that is part of it.

 

[regolith]

Dun, that sounds to me like it might be Johne's, even if she's not scouring.
I had one last year that had a full-term calf that looked a month premature, she held on for several months losing condition and still producing milk though not as much as her previous year, finally tested positive for Johne's when she was put up before a vet in the autumn almost emaciated - she'd never been scouring significantly.
Other pos at that age - arthritis? She might not graze much if she's in pain.


Nesikep - I've seen cows lose their milk soon after calving with Johne's, pneumonia, eczema (photosensitivity), peritonitis, unidentified inflammation (59 last year, had a high temp, vet put her on antibiotics, she came right). Mid-lactation - a heifer last year stopped eating and lost condition and milk very quickly, it turned out she'd cracked a rib and anti-inflammatories took her mind off the pain so she could recover. First thing I'd be asking was whether the cow had cleaned after calving.
Sometimes they recover milk production, sometimes they don't. One second-calver many years ago we didn't milk for over a week (possibly eczema) because there was nothing to take - but she came back into milk without treatment. With an older cow I'd probably cut my losses on her.

Oh - pine needles. Recommended to avoid them, for sure, because of the abortion risk. But I've never heard of them harming cattle that aren't in-calf, and my cows regularly strip the bottom branches of over-hanging trees of all varieties, including pine and macrocarpa (cypress ... - I'd need to look up the botanical name). A couple of years back I got a couple of calves for a good milk cow, trying to take her through the winter for a 2-yr lactation. She died of stomach ulcers in the spring. I was very suspicious of the macrocarpa - high winds had scattered the leaves throughout her pasture - but couldn't find any information to confirm that suspicion, or any suggestion that there was any possible harm apart from abortion.

 

[dun]

Dun, that sounds to me like it might be Johne's, even if she's not scouring.
I had one last year that had a full-term calf that looked a month premature, she held on for several months losing condition and still producing milk though not as much as her previous year, finally tested positive for Johne's when she was put up before a vet in the autumn almost emaciated - she'd never been scouring significantly.
Other pos at that age - arthritis? She might not graze much if she's in pain.


Nesikep - I've seen cows lose their milk soon after calving with Johne's, pneumonia, eczema (photosensitivity), peritonitis, unidentified inflammation (59 last year, had a high temp, vet put her on antibiotics, she came right). Mid-lactation - a heifer last year stopped eating and lost condition and milk very quickly, it turned out she'd cracked a rib and anti-inflammatories took her mind off the pain so she could recover. First thing I'd be asking was whether the cow had cleaned after calving.
Sometimes they recover milk production, sometimes they don't. One second-calver many years ago we didn't milk for over a week (possibly eczema) because there was nothing to take - but she came back into milk without treatment. With an older cow I'd probably cut my losses on her.

Oh - pine needles. Recommended to avoid them, for sure, because of the abortion risk. But I've never heard of them harming cattle that aren't in-calf, and my cows regularly strip the bottom branches of over-hanging trees of all varieties, including pine and macrocarpa (cypress ... - I'd need to look up the botanical name). A couple of years back I got a couple of calves for a good milk cow, trying to take her through the winter for a 2-yr lactation. She died of stomach ulcers in the spring. I was very suspicious of the macrocarpa - high winds had scattered the leaves throughout her pasture - but couldn't find any information to confirm that suspicion, or any suggestion that there was any possible harm apart from abortion.

Vet and I discussed Johnes and listeriosis. He doesn;t think it's either, he's still working on it.

 

[Nesikep]

OK, update for you all on this
after milking her 3 times a day for the last 10 days or so, I'm still getting only a cup per milking, and last night even less, I've written her off, she's more hassle than she's worth, and the calf is drinking from the bottle... if she were a cooperative cow, i'd continue a little more, but she's the dumbest sack of bricks I've seen in a long time, every time, I bring her down the chute to milk, and every time I have to beat her ass 5 times around the corral before she'll go (the calf is at the end of the chute too) and then she'll run right on down... As for her health, she's in perfect health, good appetite, no uterine infection or anything the like, no mastitis we can detect, the milk she does give is good, and the the bag isn't hard, she's always got water, we force fed her some salt (this has helped in the past) to make her drink more, that didn't help, and she's getting the best hay we have, which is indeed good hay... so off to the sale barn with her, or the deep freeze.. I've had it.

Meanwhile, we have a cow that lost her calf last year because she let every other calf suck on her until she had none left for her own, this year she's raising a bomber heifer which has the physique of a bull, she's just huge, so I'm going to see if i can graft the little guy on to her, and so far, it's not working too badly, at least she's not mean to him, and we can always feed him a little extra as well...

Also, fo the milk replacer question, it wasnt' the milk replacer that was aweful smelling, it was the fake colostrum, the milk replacer we have is ok, he drinks it happily

 

[Stocker Steve]

Regardless of the reason - - what percentage of older cows have no or little milk?

 

[dun]

Regardless of the reason - - what percentage of older cows have no or little milk?

Seems like as long as they have adequate as heifers that they won;t have a problem until they're into their teens. BUT, each cow is an individual and you can;t tell for sure when one will just give out. I think a lot of the quitting milking deal has to do with long term affects that aren;t obvious. Marginal teeth, marginal feet/legs, rumen losing effectiveness because of worm/parasite resistance to wormers, heavy lice build up, etc.

 

[KNERSIE]

This whole milk discussion has me wondering how much milk quality can change between lactations?

I had a first calver two years ago who calved with a great big bag and looked like she'll be a outstanding milker. Her calf never did good, was always runty looking although he wasn't really that small and got pneumonia which was treated successfully. There was a period of about 6 weeks of very good grazing just prior to weaning and the calf made quite a turn around and weaned at a 94 index in my herd. He was culled and sent to the feedlot anyway.

The cow was very lucky not to get culled and last year she calved again with a big good looking bag and raised a heifer which started out as an average sized calf at birth, but was as good a doing calf as you're likely to get and weaned at 124 index! Parasites definately palyed no role in this and last year was probably the worst grazing year ever.

Now I'd like to know what caused such a dramatic change in one season?