Milk ability of Charolais vs Simmental

[Warren Allison]

I have a question and wanted some opinions from the members here. My wife had gotten this supposed milk cow as part of a horse trade. It looks to me like it is a Brown Swiss. or maybe half Brown Swiss. It may be 1/2 beef breed because it is built like a beef breed. Maybe part Chianina, because it is taller than any Holstein cow I have seen. She is due any day now, and while her udder is no where near the size of a Holstein in a dairy, it is a good size bigger than any beef cows I have seen a day or two before calving. Wife says it can be our nurse cow, but I have never had one of these Brangus ever reject a calf or die giving birth, or not have enough milk, She will probably end up having to milk the thing some once it calves. Or buy a calf to put on it, but we don't have any dairies anywhere close to us to buy one from. She is bred to a Brahma, by the way. Looking ahead, if she ends up having to milk it, she will probably be open to selling it down the road. If I have to keep it, I was thinking if she had a heifer calf next time, that might be a cow that could take another calf if we had twins, or something, but not make so much milk that it would have to have another calf, or be milked, and do ok just raising her own. I have a Charolais and a Simmental bull. Which one would produce a heifer calf that would give the most milk every year when she calves? Or would there be actually very little difference in the two? I have never owned either a Simmental or Charolais cow, so I have no idea.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I can't speak for the "modern" Charolais, but the breed was NEVER a milking breed. Far from it. The Simmentals used to have too much milk (they were a dual breed (beef/dairy) over in Europe). Simmental are a milking breed then and now.

 

[aprille218]

Simmental are known for having a good amount of milk, especially the older bloodlines.

 

[Hereford2]

Do you have a picture of the cow? Brown Swiss are Huge, we have one currently we had several, their back is around the same height as my head. Im 5,6

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Also, Braunvieh.

 

[kenny thomas]

If your concerned about her milking too much already, why are you wanting to breed for more milk.

 

[Ky hills]

Between Simmental and Charolais, Simmental should be the higher milking.
Simmentals are known for being heavier milking.
Charolais can go either way, I had some registered Charolais cows that I'd put up against any American Simmental as far as milking ability.
Then I've also had some registered Charolais that didn't have enough milk to raise a mouse as a older Charolais breeder from years ago once said.
Some Charolais bloodlines were heavy milking and some especially the show cattle lines from years ago were pitiful at milking.
No idea what the breed is like today as I haven't kept up with any of the bloodlines for close to 30 years now.
Brown Swiss cattle can be huge frame cattle.

 

[Warren Allison]

Well, I thought to ask my wife if she knew what it was. We have only had the thing since this summer, and I just now thought to ask. Or, she may have already told me and just didn't pay attention or forgot. She said I guessed right that is a Brown Swiss x Chianina. Her student (barrel racing) had got it from a neighbor that raises oxen for draft pulling. They apparently do ox pulls where they have draft horse and mule pulls. He gets his oxen from breeding a couple of Brown Swiss and a couple of Holsteins to a Chianina bull. He steers the male calves to get oxen. I learned something today, because I always thought an ox was its own breed. The neighbor sold or gave this girl that female, which she had turned out with her dad's Brahmas. Angie had let her trade it as partial payment on a barrel prospect.

Thank you everyone for the input about the milking. I would rather use the Simmental bull anyway so that I would get a black calf, in case it was male. I would rather have a cow that would possibly raise 2 if need be. We don't need one to raise 4 or 5 calves a year on. Or one to milk. Maybe this calf will sell well if it is a heifer, being a 1/2 Brahma. But I will just breed it to a black Simmental every year until Angie gets ready to sell it. And the first heifer it has I might keep and raise. It just depends on if the market is still as high as it is now.

 

[Warren Allison]

If your concerned about her milking too much already, why are you wanting to breed for more milk.

I want to breed for less milk. A 3/4 beef-1/4 dairy cow should milk less than a 1/2 and 1/2. I just wondered which one, Charolais or Simmental, would produce the least milk. Everyone on here has said Charolais would be the lesser milker, but then I'd have red calves to sell. So I am going to breed her to the Simmental. I might not even ever keep a heifer calf to raise for a nurse cow, and the black ones will sell better. This cow may not even make more than her baby can handle, either. We don't feed her anything, just pasture. Sometimes I get to thinking too far ahead.

 

[farmerjan]

Chianina's were notorious for NOT making much milk.... we had friends that raised them for oxen for pulling in Conn. years ago. They make tremendous oxen, but can be very moody... will pull weights way beyond what most would expect.

Oxen are normally castrated males of ANY breed of cattle... often used for draught animals. There are sometimes females used as draught animals also, but they are still usually called cows... Technically an OX is a castrated male over 5 years... until then he is a steer or a bullock.

If all she gets is pasture/and or hay, she may not make a whole lot of milk over what her own calf can use... some brown swiss are not huge producers either...

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

Also, Braunvieh.

I was just going to say its probably a Braunvieh cow! If so good luck milking her lol. I like ours but there is no way in hell she would let me milk her but we use her for an embryo receip and she takes every year.

I just saw the later post about it being high Chi. Again, good luck milking it.

 

[Warren Allison]

Chianina's were notorious for NOT making much milk.... we had friends that raised them for oxen for pulling in Conn. years ago. They make tremendous oxen, but can be very moody... will pull weights way beyond what most would expect.

Oxen are normally castrated males of ANY breed of cattle... often used for draught animals. There are sometimes females used as draught animals also, but they are still usually called cows... Technically an OX is a castrated male over 5 years... until then he is a steer or a bullock.

If all she gets is pasture/and or hay, she may not make a whole lot of milk over what her own calf can use... some brown swiss are not huge producers either...

Thanks, Jan!

 

[Warren Allison]

I was just going to say its probably a Braunvieh cow! If so good luck milking her lol. I like ours but there is no way in hell she would let me milk her but we use her for an embryo receip and she takes every year.

I just saw the later post about it being high Chi. Again, good luck milking it.

Oh, she won't have any problem at all with this cow. She can do anything she wants with, and she can call it and it comes running and follows her like a dog. She aggravates the tar out of me because I cant even drive her. I can crowd her with a horse, and she will just turn around and try to rub her head on him or my leg. I like to work gentle cattle, but one like this is just too gentle. Best way to handle her, is just put a rope halter on her and lead her. This might change after she has that calf, though. I guess we will see in the morning, maybe.

 

[Warren Allison]

We get up at 5, and she had calved last night. 112 lb heifer! Must have been a red Brahma bull that bred her, because that is the color of this calf. Maybe this one will eat enough that we don't need to worry about milking or grafting another calf. Had 3 more black ones born last night, too. All 3 bulls, 2 by the black Simmental and one by the red Charolais. Gonna go out there after about 3 or so, and tag and band them, and will weigh them then. It is COLD down here this morning. Saw some ice on the edge of one of the ponds when I headed out at daylight.