maybe future a.i. bull

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i've got better looking bulls ,but "jackson's" e.p.d.s are over the top on low birth rate,calving ease,growth rate,and milk.
not to mention his bloodline
"jackson" is 75/25 homo black,homo polled reg. balancer sire=tenderloin bull and the dam's sire=carolina fortune with grand sire=wam stonewall bull
"jackson" hit the ground at 65# ww.641# yw.1361#,all this with no creep feed
i'm proud of this bull and looking for feedback to see if he is worth the gamble...see pic of "jackson" at 1 year old,
387938_328613590486272_100000129010817_1541846_40595663_n.jpg
 
He sure has CF's length .

Anything is worth a gamble if you believe in it. Why not collect and AI him to as much as you can to get some solid proofs and then you will be able to market him better. Have you contacted ABS about him ?
 
"jackson's" forebears' names mean nothing to me. What are the combination of "breeds" which comprise his pedigree?

DOC HARRIS
 
What is the bull's purpose as an A.I. sire? Is he designed with an emphasis on producing feeder cattle or more towards more ideal retainable heifers? Tell us about the bull's females in his pedigree. If I were to retain heifers out if him what should I expect and why? Why are you going to use him yourself?
 
Red Bull Breeder":3nmyvpwn said:
He is a Balancer Doc. I am sure you read on here enough to no what a balancer is. If not read more post less.

Such a kind helpful post with purpose.

Alan
 
Thanks Alan. Most any other person that would post on here i would have tried to be a little more helpful. Glad you make note of the purpose.
 
Just another crossbred bull. Unless you have a defined breeding program for this crossbred bull, he should be in a feedlot, not a breeding pasture.
 
i purchased this bull primarly as a heifer bull and clean up bull for e.t. recipients.
he has sired 2 bullcalves to date,both hit the ground at 60# and 62# and are approx.180# at almost 2 months old
"jackson" is a little over 2 years old now and has serviced about 14 of my comm.and reg.heifers
i'll try to post recent pics soon
granted i may have jumped the gun alittle early,because he needs age on him, proven progeny,and more accurate e.p.d.'s and thats the reason for this post.if there is enough intrest in a bull like this,i need to move him from cleanup bull to herd bull to improve his stat's
 
bigag03":1agsc0aj said:
Just another crossbred bull. Unless you have a defined breeding program for this crossbred bull, he should be in a feedlot, not a breeding pasture.

It may be just my opinion, but I don't get why a comment like this would be made. A bull, crossbred or purebred, should be judged on his performance not on some presupposition that crossbred bulls are no good.
 
thanks jeff,you know i had to start with bottle calves ,then crossbred (comm.) cattle and work my way up to reg. cattle because of $.
and i'm just as proud of the first bottle calf as i am my reg. herd today and knowing all the work that goes into any cow i would be the last to knock it because its not my favorite breed
 
ALACOWMAN":2uahms8f said:
how do you get predictability from a crossbred bull

Great question! For that matter how do you get predictability/consistency/prepotency out of any bull.

An acestral pedigree stacked with like type and functional ability should help. Also a degree of linebreeding should also give a more consistent predictable genetic base.

The best way to find out if a bull is of value maternally or terminally is to use him and use him hard.
 
I'am with BigAg on this one . Yes he is a decent looking bull . In his picture he is shallow in the hip for my likeing , but that is just one picture . Balancer's my good terminal bulls or going back on Angus cows that need some milk and frame back on them . You'd need more than 16 calves on the ground before I'd get to excited . His pedigree would have to be stacked with consistant EPD's ,before I'd spend the money to collect him .
 
JeffMills517":3wfw9yob said:
bigag03":3wfw9yob said:
Just another crossbred bull. Unless you have a defined breeding program for this crossbred bull, he should be in a feedlot, not a breeding pasture.

It may be just my opinion, but I don't get why a comment like this would be made. A bull, crossbred or purebred, should be judged on his performance not on some presupposition that crossbred bulls are no good.

We all have different philosophies, but mine has always been to take advantage of heterosis with crossbred cows and use purebred bulls for consistency, uniformity and reliability. There is not an EPD model available that accurately accounts for heterosis in a crossbred breeding animal, so the EPDs are almost useless. I know that many disagree, but I will always be of the opinion that crossbred males should be steers in a feedlot, not breeding, unless you have a breeding program that allows you to breed up to a certain percentage and stabilize as a composite breed (such as Brangus). Balancers, Limflex or any other of these fancy named F1s are just crossbreds until someone fixes their percentage in a multigenerational breeding program.
 
Sorry bigag, but I disagree with your assumption that because a bull isn't multi-generations of a purebred or fullblood line that it should be a steer.

As a kid, we were taught that crossbred bulls were a no no. That there would be too much variation in the offspring. Apparently the chicken and swine folks didn't follow that philosophy and they have produced a very consistent product, and now 98%+ of commercial swine is produced from hybrid (crossbred) genetics, and 99.9%+ of poultry is also produced by hybrids. Over they years I have looked at thousands of "crossbred" cattle (i.e. Brangus, Chiangus, SimAngus, Gerts, Balancers, Lim-Flex, etc.) and I'm not convinced that there is a noticeable difference in variability, compared to purebreds. Actually I probably see more variability in many registered Angus herds because of the wide genetic base in the breed. So if an Angus breeder is either trying to change course in midstream (i.e. breeding for smaller, "more efficient" cattle) or trying to produce bulls to meet different market segments (calving ease, high quality grade, and high growth terminal cattle) there is a great deal of variability in the pasture; and they're all purebreds.

I agree that to maximize heterosis, a producer should run crossbred cows of complimentary breeds, and breed them to a third breed. However, I know of large operations (2000 cows or more) who have given up on maximizing heterosis because of the headaches of trying to accomplish this. For example, if you produce your own F1 replacements, you still need to maintain a separate herd to produce the F1's. If you decide to buy your replacements, you need to find a ranch that can produce the replacements in the quantity that you need and run their cows in environments similar to the way you run yours. This doesn't sound all that hard, but if you need 350 replacements a year, and you want them from a single source, it can be a real struggle trying to find a ranch that can do that.

Many, many, many large commercial ranches have realized that they can maintain some heterosis by using hybrid bulls. I believe I read in BEEF magazine a couple years ago where Bell Ranch is breeding SimAngus sired females to Balancer bulls and vice versa. They still maintain a 50% Angus 50% Continental herd and get some additional heterosis by using both Simmental and Gelbvieh influenced genetics.
 
We have been using the sim-angus bull "Rookie" from Select Sires for 3 years now. The calves are incredible! We have used him on purebred angus, half breed sim-angus, and high percentage simmi cows and the calves were awsome in all cases.

Because of our success with this bull, we have now purchased a hybrid sim-angus herd bull. Sired by a TNT sire out of HC Hummer and out of a dam by 004.

I guess what i am saying is- a great bull is a great bull regardless if it is a purebred or a hybrid. Select has purchased 3 more Hybrids in the past year alone. Apparently alot of people are seeing the value of them.
 

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