Max price on a Bull for commercial use

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Bigfoot

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I got 11 years out of a bull I raised one time. I’ve had more than a few that I paid good money for break their penis in the first season. You carry no more money in your wallet, than your willing to lose. You pay no more for a bull, than your willing to lose.
 

Ky hills

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2 out of the last 3 bulls we have bought have ended up breaking their equipment, within a few weeks of having them. Thankfully I only had $1800 a piece in them. Got tired of $3000-$4250 per bull and loosing 2/3 or more of that when something happened and had to cull some of them while they were still young. This is our crew that are going out in late May. Home raised so if something happens it’s not near as depressing to cull them. One is 2 years and the smaller ones are a year old now.1B0CE4EA-A797-43CA-BDAD-D18DBC3E50B5.jpeg507C2AD6-CE8D-47D0-8250-7E858FBFF189.jpegE64A3C8D-11F2-41D1-88EE-8B5D219C6284.jpeg
 

Brute 23

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I do it all the time. They are farm raised and forage developed. I use them, too. KY31 Fescue strikes again.
I can see that but is that the norm?

Here I bought a bull that came off a large ranch and they are raised mostly on grass. They have hundreds of bulls at a time and can be bought very reasonably. That is not the norm here and will greatly limit your options.
 

simme

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Good advice, but myth #3 not so much. Santa Gertrudis are not cross-breds. They are their own stabilized breed, well -established since the 40's. They have their own DNA. Same thing with Beefmaster, Brangus, Braford, etc. A registered Brangus bull, tested to be homozygous black, will throw a polled, black calf every time . I agree with the myth.. which is in fact a truth, on using a half Brahma -half Angus bull. Half the calves could turn out like a Brahma cross , and half like an Angus cross. If you were gonna use say, a black baldy bull...half Hereford and half Angus, then you may as well use 2 bulls, a Hereford and an Angus. You'd get the same consistency in the calf crop.
Just for discussion purposes - So, a breed that started as a crossbred (or even a 3 way cross) is no longer a crossbred after so many years and if a breed association is formed based on that cross? Not disagreeing. But, some people on this board have been quick to point out that any breed association with an open registry that allows a breed-up program is actually a crossbred breed. Some have been quick to point out that most black animals other than angus are not purebred since they were crossed at some point to get the black. That includes simmental, simangus, gelbvieh, black herford, brangus and some others.
How many years or generations does it take for a crossbred to become a purebred? How many years before there is consistency in the calf crop? If there is no consistency in the calf crop from a first generation brangus or simangus, how many generations are needed. If you are still bringing in new genetics from both breeds, do you never get consistent calves?
Within a breed, do you lose consistency in the calf crop if you use what is referred to as outcross genetics. Just looking for some discussions and opinions.
 

wbvs58

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2/3-3/4 of my calves will be AI bred and I select a couple of calves to use for clean up each year. I think my cow herd looks the goods. My neighbour down the front buys bulls from reputable sales including mine and would pay around the sale average and his cow herd looks quality and he has buyers that pay top money for his weaners at the annual weaner sale. My neighbours over the back do likewise and their weaners are in demand. Further down the road is another herd of cows where they buy the cheap unregistered bulls they source wherever they can find them and after many generations of this negative selection the cow herd can only be described as scrubbers and the calves never make the feature lots at the weaner sales and are picked up by the bottom dwellers also looking for cheap.. I believe that once you take the foot off the pedal with your bull selection, in a self replacing herd your cows soon revert to average.

Ken
 

Son of Butch

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Just for discussion purposes -
How many years or generations does it take for a crossbred to become a purebred? Just looking for some discussions and opinions.
18 yrs - the Hays Converter breed developed by Harry Hays started in 1957
was awarded new breed status by the Canadian Dept of Agriculture in 1975.

Hays founded the breed on 3 individuals from 3 breeds (2 bulls and 1 cow) that he believed were ideal for beef production for his location near Alberta Canada.
Hereford sire Silver Prince
Holstein sire Fond Hope
Brown Swiss cow Jane of Vernon
and hereford cows from the neighboring Baker herd

He started by breeding hereford cows to 8 sons of the holstein bull Fond Hope
for 2 years. Then selected the best daughters from this cross and bred them to the hereford bull Silver Prince = 3/4 hereford 1/4 holstein offspring and he selected the 5 best bulls produced and bred them to their own mother
(Fond Hope granddaughters)
1/2 hereford 1/2 holstein x 3/4 hereford 1/4 holstein = 5/8 hereford 3/8 holstein

He mated 4 great grand sons from the Brown Swiss cow Jane of Vernon to Hereford cows = 1/2 hereford 1/2 Brown Swiss offspring and the females went into his breeding herd and were bred to the bulls from the mother x son matings
1/2 hereford 1/2 Brown Swiss x 5/8 hereford 3/8 holstein bulls =
Hays Converters 9/16 hereford 1/4 brown swiss 3/16 holstein

His breeding program followed strict survival of the fittest guidelines and took 12 years to complete, closing the herd to new blood in 1969.
Canadian Dept of Ag inspected his herd and breeding program in 1974
and awarded new breed status in 1975. 1957-1975 = 18 years to achieve his goal of creating a new breed designed to perform in his region in Canada.

(good cattle, problem was they didn't perform quite as well under different conditions in USA or other regions)
 
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Son of Butch

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Not exactly a “get rich quick” scheme is it?
No, but the man had sound reasons as to why each individual animal was selected.
It wasn't some willy-nilly haphazard approach to linebreeding/inbreeding.
Gotta admire a fellow who can follow through on a plan with a defined goal in mind.
 

TennesseeTuxedo

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No, but the man had sound reasons as to why each individual animal was selected.
It wasn't some willy-nilly haphazard approach to linebreeding/inbreeding.
Gotta admire a fellow who can follow through on a plan with a defined goal in mind.
I concur. I know a Hereford breeder who sticks to his plan and doesn’t deviate.
 

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