Max price on a Bull for commercial use

[wbvs58]

Over here there is a growing trend for commercial producers to pay some big prices for some of the best bulls. They then use them with some of their best cows in a bull breeding unit to supply their own bulls. Also they will collect and use in an AI programme. They then cut back on the number of bulls they buy each year.

Ken

 

[gcreekrch]

Guess I am right in the ball park as 13 bulls purchased this year averaged $5019.
At the five to one ratio given I have saved $13000+ considering what our steer calves are contracted for.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Try being more respectful, lol. 2 years is a little short but I've seen several bull's attitudes ruined in one handling.

A lot a times it's not the bull, it's the facilities and the owner. I hauled a 2yr old to a sale this after noon for a guy. He hide outside the barn while the bull customized a gate. Sorted him off again (quietly but showing I don't back down). Stacked gates, skid steer bucket over the fence, 4020 bucket over the fence. The bull walked right on the trailer. No problem.
I had to unload him at home and reload him with some mrkt cows. No issues. He was just being a bull.
The owner told me to make sure the sale barn knew how bad he loaded. He was just being a bull. Have better facilities!

 

[SBMF 2015]

$4,500-$5,000 will catch most of ours. $6,500 is the most we've paid. Quit bidding on one at $8,300. Hind sight, I'm glad we didn't get him.

 

[Silver]

I am fortunate that I got most of mine bought for $3,500 CAD this year, and paid the princely sum of $5,200 for one I really really wanted. I buy my bulls in the late fall off the ranch. One ranch holds a silent auction and the prices are starting to go up over time.
The last of my purchases arrived today, I'm quite happy with the way they wintered.

 

[Rydero]

$5000 is about where I like to cap it for a bull I like. Big thing is I don't compromise on what I want in a bull so if I need a bull there's a couple of place's sales I'll go to and it depends what the type I want is selling for within reason.

We're lucky that some of our breeders have been offering free insurance/guarantees on basically anything that happens to the bulls so you're definitely going to get a season out of the bull or they'll bring a replacement. If there's an ongoing issue you give the bull back and get credit for the next year's sale. I've had to use it a couple times from a couple of different breeders so I'd probably pay more to buy from them than someone I'm not sure will stand behind them.

 

[farmerjan]

"...but your bull is 1/2 of the current calf crop and a good one is 2/3 of your replacements in value if he is a good one." A repeated fallacy. The female delivers mitochondrial DNA and the male does not. A good cow herd can prop up a mediocre bull. Not all calves are 50/50 or else genetic testing would not be needed and EPDs would be of very little functional use.

Maybe a good cow herd can prop up a mediocre bull, but a mediocre bull will give you mediocre calves overall, which will hurt your growth rate, hurt your lbs weaned, and hurt your reputation. Maybe I did not say it exactly right, but why bother with better bulls to produce better calves then? I did not say most expensive, I said a good one. If the bull does not contribute his fair share then why bother with bulls that you think will improve your replacement heifers? or give you better growth in his calves. The good bull can put better calves on the ground with the cows; than they would with a mediocre bull.

 

[Brute 23]

I approach things a little bit different. I take the number of cows he will breed annually, multiple that by the minimum and maximum years in service. Then take the cost of the bull, subtract it from the salvage price and divide that by the first part.

As a formula:
(PP-SP)/(CBA×Y)
($5000-$2000)/(50×5)
$3000/250=$12 per calf

The question is can you afford $12 per calf in your budget? As I said, be sure to run the highs and lows. You can also run the cost per calf of a 5k bull vs a 2k bull and ask yourself if the higher priced bull can justify his cost per calf vs the lower priced bull.

Good bulls actually have a pretty decent resale if you dont run them in to the dirt.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I have banded a couple nice bulls out of good cows and it just hurts my feelings. Lol. Then turn around and buy a bull I can afford. I think I am going to leave one intact and keep to use. Im sure it would beat the **** out of any bull I can afford.

 

[jltrent]

I have banded a couple nice bulls out of good cows and it just hurts my feelings. Lol. Then turn around and buy a bull I can afford. I think I am going to leave one intact and keep to use. Im sure it would beat the **** out of any bull I can afford.

A couple times I remember I paid someone extra to keep me a bull calf from their heard as I liked the looks of their bull and cows. They turned out well. Every time I bought a bull from people who grow bulls to sell and basically overfeeds them the bull went all to pieces when I put him to work. I hate to see a bull a year old weigh 1300-1500 lbs. and expect to put him with cows. He will go all to pieces and maybe even die on you. The most I ever paid was $2400 and was disappointed.

 

[Ky hills]

@jltrent that is what I see too in a lot of cases. Some bulls are pushed to make them grow and look good, People will pay more money for them, and then they melt when out in the pasture with cows. Then most are AI sired now a days and that's a selling point that adds value in most people's eyes. There can be bulls with basically the same breeding at different farms yet be priced vastly different depending on who has them. The registered game is such that some breeders that have the ability to capitalize in the perceived value of their ranch's prefix which can add thousands sometimes to the price of their cattle. Then those may not always be that much better in reality.

 

[TCRanch]

$5000 is about where I like to cap it for a bull I like. Big thing is I don't compromise on what I want in a bull so if I need a bull there's a couple of place's sales I'll go to and it depends what the type I want is selling for within reason.

We're lucky that some of our breeders have been offering free insurance/guarantees on basically anything that happens to the bulls so you're definitely going to get a season out of the bull or they'll bring a replacement. If there's an ongoing issue you give the bull back and get credit for the next year's sale. I've had to use it a couple times from a couple of different breeders so I'd probably pay more to buy from them than someone I'm not sure will stand behind them.

The breeder I use guarantees his bulls for a year. Bought 2 a couple years ago and 3 weeks later one got struck by lightning - naturally my fave, and I felt like I'd been gut punched. Called the breeder that night and he delivered a new bull 2 days later. I handed him a check for the new bull (because clearly, an act of nature had nothing to do with the bulls' fertility) and he wouldn't accept it.

 

[Josher]

We've tried quite a few different things. We've bought a number of yearling bulls some turn out and some don't and some don't get a chance due to injury of some sort. We've kept some from our own breeding and I have one really good Bull from that. There is a one breeder not far away that I almost can't buy a bad bull from. Almost everything turns out. He's willing to sell older bulls too and can show his calf crop, daughters in production. If you can find older bulls that still have a few years left that can work real well. Had some big bull fights when they have to sort out whose boss though. And our most recent experiment is AI. We keep back quite a few as bulls and cull them hard. Getting some good ones and some real good heifers too out of the deal.

 

[BS101]

Like Silver said, I have have heard people say the equivalent of x number of calves. Kenny Thomas is also right in that the number of cows you have is also a major consideration.
The problem that I have run into is that bulls frequently have issues and can need replacing pretty often, which to makes putting a lot of money into them a loosing game. Many will disagree with me on this but I have been using home raised bulls for several years, in addition to purchasing a bull every now and then to get some new blood. If a home raised bull gets hurt or doesn't cut it then selling him isn't as costly as selling a $3000-$4000+ bull in the middle of his first breeding season.

Hopefully if that were to happen, a reputable breeder would make things right.

 

[BS101]

Like Silver said, I have have heard people say the equivalent of x number of calves. Kenny Thomas is also right in that the number of cows you have is also a major consideration.
The problem that I have run into is that bulls frequently have issues and can need replacing pretty often, which to makes putting a lot of money into them a loosing game. Many will disagree with me on this but I have been using home raised bulls for several years, in addition to purchasing a bull every now and then to get some new blood. If a home raised bull gets hurt or doesn't cut it then selling him isn't as costly as selling a $3000-$4000+ bull in the middle of his first breeding season.

Hopefully you would bought from a reputable breeder. They should make it right

 

[Coosh71]

We decided several years back to retain 3-4 of the best bulls from Spring and Fall calving herds. I've often pondered this subject and no one really had a good enough answer for me as far as what it should cost when running commercial cows. So I did a little experiment started retaining a few bulls at weaning. The sire that we retained these bulls off of is registered he's low birth weight epds are great for replacements and we have kept a ton of replacements off of him through the years. We have also had him drawn and we have sold straws as well as retained straws for future use. I started selling these bulls at 12 to 18 months of age. They are non-registered so I would simply sell them at $1,200 and $1,800. The quality of the bulls at 2 and 3 years old was just amazing to us and we now have repeat buyers. We no longer sell these bulls at $1,200&$1800. We have gone up on the price some but nothing over the top. The sire for all of these bull calves and replacements that we have kept through the years was a $4,000 registered bull. I honestly think those folks that go out and buy the biggest bulkiest 2-year-old bull at a bull sale and spend 10 to $15,000, are taking a huge risk. I'm sure you've all heard countless stories of broken legs broken wieners frostbite etc that has sidelined and made useless a $15,000 bull after one season. It's looked down upon in my area if you buy a bull that isn't thousands and thousands of dollars but to me sometimes common sense goes a long way. I really don't believe that there is a formula that is "right". I believe in good bulls but I also believe prices have been insanely inflated over the years. This is a great topic.

 

[Lazy M]

Purchased 2 this year. $2500 for one, $3500 for the other. I'm actually more excited about the phenotype of the cheaper bull, but he doesn't have the big epd numbers of the other. Prices for bulls are definitely up from last year, but even as a buyer last year I thought that the prices were too cheap. People don't realize the extra $ that it takes to develop a good bull. If done right, I wouldn't be surprised if $2500 to $3000 isn't close to break even on a long yearling bull..

 

[darcelina4]

I hear so many people complain about these overfed developed bulls melting in the pasture but yet if you try to sell a young bull that has not been stuffed with grain people don't want to pay anything for it. I had a reg. Red Angus low birth weight coming 2 year old bull for sale. We were going to shorthorns so that was the only reason he was for sale. I had lots if interest but no one wanted to pay much. I ended selling him for 1500 to move him along. Now I have calves out there from him and thinking I should have kept him. We want colorful calves so we are going short horn. One of the most important things we look for in a bull is handlability. If they don't want to be nice they have to leave. I have a very hands on operation. I halter break my bulls. My operation is different from most of your operations. I think everyone needs to get the best bull they can afford that fits their operation. But a high price does not always mean quality. You need to look at the bull and really evaluate him to make sure he can help you get to your goals. How will he mesh with your cow herd?

 

[Brute 23]

I hear so many people complain about these overfed developed bulls melting in the pasture but yet if you try to sell a young bull that has not been stuffed with grain people don't want to pay anything for it. I had a reg. Red Angus low birth weight coming 2 year old bull for sale. We were going to shorthorns so that was the only reason he was for sale. I had lots if interest but no one wanted to pay much. I ended selling him for 1500 to move him along. Now I have calves out there from him and thinking I should have kept him. We want colorful calves so we are going short horn. One of the most important things we look for in a bull is handlability. If they don't want to be nice they have to leave. I have a very hands on operation. I halter break my bulls. My operation is different from most of your operations. I think everyone needs to get the best bull they can afford that fits their operation. But a high price does not always mean quality. You need to look at the bull and really evaluate him to make sure he can help you get to your goals. How will he mesh with your cow herd?

Most think "fat" is good. It's just the market we are in.

A friend of mine always quotes a study that was done on ranchers as to why they buy a certain feed. The #1 answer was... my cows like it.

That's your market.

I try buy bulls as young as possible and try to finish them out on my pasture to give them time to acclimate.

 

[Jafruech]

On the other hand, one of the most expensive things a commercial guy can do is buy a cheap bull.

I agree with that. It's a balance. I think selecting a bull for your specific goals/traits is more important than the price. There's a lot of good bulls out there that I wouldn't buy because they don't fit my goals.

As far as culls, for me with the market out here, it makes a lot more sense for me to get them processed and sell the ground beef directly do consumers. I just processed one not to long ago, 5 year old bull that failed 2 BSEs (vesiculates that his fertility never recovered from). USDA inspected processing cost me $1 per lb and $80 kill fee. I turned around and sold the ground beef for $6.75 a lb.

Hanging weight-1150lbs = $1230

695lbs of ground beef x $6.75=$4691

Net: $3461...beats the heck out of selling a cull at the salebarn

Took me all of about an hour of work posting on different facebook groups and messaging people to sell it all, with them picking it up.