Mature cows, feeding silage and supplement with??

Help Support CattleToday:

Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Hi all, we run about 75 cows in northern illinois. We have about 300 tons (2 bags) of corn silage i'm about to start feeding. We are running through our hay pretty quick and will start calving late february. From what i've read, i could mix about three pounds of soybean meal with the silage but i'm wondering if anyone has other options to share. There is dried distillers grains available close by and also whole cottonseed. We also have about 90 good cornstalk bales on hand. Just wondering the best protein supplement to throw in with that silage??
 
GymTruckLaundry":rw8fnqyj said:
Hi all, we run about 75 cows in northern illinois. We have about 300 tons (2 bags) of corn silage i'm about to start feeding. We are running through our hay pretty quick and will start calving late february. From what i've read, i could mix about three pounds of soybean meal with the silage but i'm wondering if anyone has other options to share. There is dried distillers grains available close by and also whole cottonseed. We also have about 90 good cornstalk bales on hand. Just wondering the best protein supplement to throw in with that silage??

Where are you located (state only)...how much corn is in the silage??????????
 
100 mi west of chicago. The silage was chopped in 180-190 bushel/acre corn. I was under the impression that 30-50lbs of corn silage only would not be high enough in crude protien for cows about to calve. Right now the silage will be fed with free choice alfalfa/orchardgrass hay but not for long. Last year the poo got pretty runny when they were on silage only...
 
your going to have to feed some hay with your silage as you found out to keep the runs down.the corn is where they get their protine from.
 
GymTruckLaundry":2u52hex3 said:
100 mi west of chicago. The silage was chopped in 180-190 bushel/acre corn. I was under the impression that 30-50lbs of corn silage only would not be high enough in crude protien for cows about to calve. Right now the silage will be fed with free choice alfalfa/orchardgrass hay but not for long. Last year the poo got pretty runny when they were on silage only...
Sounds like some good silage and with that much corn in it the energy should also be high but silage typically will test 3-5% protein "as fed". Supplementing with free choice alfalfa should give the cattle all the protein they need. If you discontinue the alfalfa then you might consider supplementing with some protein source. Unless the manure is excessively thin I wouldn't worry about it as long as it makes a nice patty when "downloaded".
 
I havent been able to calculate crude protein "as fed", want to show me lol? I might be wrong but here's what i got...

1300 lb cow requires a TDN of 16 and a crude protein of 2.8 and according to my textbook this cow will eat up to 49lbs of silage/day.

Silage has a TDN of 69, 35% dry matter, 8% crude protein and a cow will eat 49 lbs of it per day...

Silage has a TDN of 69 so i multiplied 49lbs x 69% which equals 33.81 pounds of energy(TDN) per day.

But silage is only 35% dry matter so i multiplied 49lbs x 35% which equals 17.15lbs "as fed", or, should i multiply 33.81 x 35% to get 11.83lbs for my "as fed" TDN number?

For crude protein i could multiply 49lbs x 8% which equals 3.92lbs of crude protein but thats not adjusted to an "as fed" number

And last year i remember putting out 35-40lbs of silage out daily and it would take them 1.5/2 days to eat it all...
 
I wouldn't worry about as fed numbers. I always use dry matter when figuring up rations. The as fed is simply dry matter plus the water in the feed. Water doesn't contribute to the protein, energy, etc. so I basically leave that out of the calculations. A dry cow should have a ration of 8-10% protein on a dry matter basis so your silage should require no additional protein supplementation, especially with alfalfa contributing to the ration. Once the cows start lactating you would want a higher protein ration but depending on how the alfalfa is for protein and how much they are eating, you may be good where you are.
 
novaman":15tyfe75 said:
I wouldn't worry about as fed numbers. I always use dry matter when figuring up rations. The as fed is simply dry matter plus the water in the feed. Water doesn't contribute to the protein, energy, etc. so I basically leave that out of the calculations. A dry cow should have a ration of 8-10% protein on a dry matter basis so your silage should require no additional protein supplementation, especially with alfalfa contributing to the ration. Once the cows start lactating you would want a higher protein ration but depending on how the alfalfa is for protein and how much they are eating, you may be good where you are.
I never use 100% dry matter because you never feed anything nor formulate anything that is 100% dry matter. You have to include the moisture because it is part of what they are eating. Water doesn't contribute to the protein or energy but does dilute both. If not then the values would be the same on all of your feed test for "as fed" compared to "dry matter". If you calculate everything on a dry matter basis for formulation purpose then you then have to adjust the weights of everything in the formula to account for the moisture that ALWAYS exists. Dry matter can only be achieved in the lab and in feed formulation programs....never in practice. Go back to "as fed"...that is what's for dinner.
 
TB, your're right we don't feed anything that is 100% DM but you have to use DM when computing the amount of say protein in a ration. Every ingredient has a different level of moisture to it. How would you ever know how many pounds of protein you are feeding if you didn't calculate the DM? You can't use percentages to build rations unless you incorporate the DM factor into those calculations. Besides I don't really worry about the moisture content of the final ration unless it is getting under 60% DM. A cow will eat 60 pounds of 60% DM feed the same as she would eat 42 pounds of 85% DM feed. The cow is eating 36 pounds of DM in either scenario. She is just consuming 18 pounds extra of water which would equate to her drinking fewer pounds of water from the pond, tank, dam. Dilution does not matter because a cow will eat the same amount of DM regardless of the moisture level, assuming the moisture level is not excessively high. In fact in warmer weather a cow will have a higher DMI on higher moisture feed.

So my preference is to calculate in DM to balance out rations and when you determine you need 17 pounds DM of corn silage then use the moisture content to determine how many as fed pounds you need. You can calculate as fed too but most recommendations are based on DM and you will be doing extra calculator work to get the same results. Just my opinion. Have I ever mentioned that I love to debate? :D
 
"Have I ever mentioned that I love to debate? :D"

good thing - especially when talking to TB about moisture in feed :)
 
novaman":2lgoq5g9 said:
TB, your're right we don't feed anything that is 100% DM but you have to use DM when computing the amount of say protein in a ration. Every ingredient has a different level of moisture to it. How would you ever know how many pounds of protein you are feeding if you didn't calculate the DM? You can't use percentages to build rations unless you incorporate the DM factor into those calculations. Besides I don't really worry about the moisture content of the final ration unless it is getting under 60% DM. A cow will eat 60 pounds of 60% DM feed the same as she would eat 42 pounds of 85% DM feed. The cow is eating 36 pounds of DM in either scenario. She is just consuming 18 pounds extra of water which would equate to her drinking fewer pounds of water from the pond, tank, dam. Dilution does not matter because a cow will eat the same amount of DM regardless of the moisture level, assuming the moisture level is not excessively high. In fact in warmer weather a cow will have a higher DMI on higher moisture feed.

So my preference is to calculate in DM to balance out rations and when you determine you need 17 pounds DM of corn silage then use the moisture content to determine how many as fed pounds you need. You can calculate as fed too but most recommendations are based on DM and you will be doing extra calculator work to get the same results. Just my opinion. Have I ever mentioned that I love to debate? :D
Nova if you use NRC standards for all the other nutrient values in your calculations then you know also that they give an NRC standard for moisture for each ingredient. A standard...If you want to use dry matter basis that's fine but as you said...if you know you want 17 lbs. of dry matter from silage you then have to reverse the calculations to determine how much to weigh out and put in the mixer wagon and the same with every other ingredeint. I do agree with you 100% on the high moisture ration being more palatable especially in hot weather. I use to weigh and mix all my ingredients and then add water....a lot of water....about 1200 lbs in each mixer wagon of feed. But I formulate "as fed" and any guarantee you ever see on any feed or feed ingredient will always be "as fed" as well. You're just creating extra work formulating and balancing your ration.
 
Howdyjabo":1q6egbsk said:
"Have I ever mentioned that I love to debate? :D"

good thing - especially when talking to TB about moisture in feed :)

I'll debate you as long as I feel like you're learning. If you're not willing to learn nobody can help you. And Jabo we don't disagree on ALL moisture in feed...only bulky non nutritional sources of moisture as in "sweet potatoes" in a finishing ration. ;-)
 
Well dang-- I'll have to tell my calves they can't finish on the stuff I feed them. They haven't figured it out yet :)
 
GymTruckLaundry":2skl26w5 said:
Hi all, we run about 75 cows in northern illinois. We have about 300 tons (2 bags) of corn silage i'm about to start feeding. We are running through our hay pretty quick and will start calving late february. From what i've read, i could mix about three pounds of soybean meal with the silage but i'm wondering if anyone has other options to share. There is dried distillers grains available close by and also whole cottonseed. We also have about 90 good cornstalk bales on hand. Just wondering the best protein supplement to throw in with that silage??

Speaking as a person who had two heifers I let graze corn too long in their second trimester and paid the price for it at calving time, I would be very concerned about feeding cows that are going to calve in 30 days too much corn silage.

I am not an expert in silage by any means. It is my understanding that most of the calf's in uterine growth occurs in that last month before calving. I personally would not be feeding them too much corn in any form just ahead of calving. Seems to me that you could end up with some huge calves and huge calving problems.

jmho and experience. Good luck. Jim
 
Howdyjabo":url6lv6c said:
Well dang-- I'll have to tell my calves they can't finish on the stuff I feed them. They haven't figured it out yet :)
If it's sweet potatoes they've probalby already figured it out themselves. If it's a good ration (wet or dry) it will probably finish them out...I doubt you're feeding junk tho so you can drop the sarcasm and enjoy the cattle.
 
Well i think i'll be alright as far as protien is concerned until the hay runs out which will be in about a month. When it runs out though, what would be my best protein supp?? I could call about ddg's at the local ethanol plant or i could call about whole cottonseed. Those are both within 20 miles. I dont know where to get soybean meal. We just had our first calf so i really want to put some protein in the silage to make me sleep better and because i hate buying those tubs, waste of $$$ in my opinion.

The sbm sounded appealing because i could put 10 or 12 tons in a shed we dont use and mix it right in with the silage. We have a "little augie" wagon with the three big slow augers inside it and feed in tractor tires turned inside out so there is little waste. We have a feed grinder also, if i got the cottonseed would i have to grind it? :bang:
 
DDG would work well. The last 3 weeks or so of pregnancy dry matter intake usually falls off so you'll need to feed her a higher protein, more energy dense feed. this shouldn't affect the size of the calf and the DDG should accomplish what you need. Best wishes.
 
If you're only 20 miles from the distillers I would use that over SBM. It won't have quite as high of protein as SBM but you'll have the added energy. Makes for a nice feed when mixed with silage and alfalfa. If you run out of alfalfa you could probably grind up some kind of grass hay or whatever you have and still have a nice ration.
 

Latest posts

Top