Mature cow weight by breed
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J+ Cattle
Well-known member
I think the cows weight needs to be recorded at the same time the calf is weaned and weighed. It's a simple calculation to determine the cow's weaning weight ratio, calf weight/cow weight. Looking only at the weaning weight of the calf doesn't tell the whole story.
An open cow has the worst weaning weight ratio and should be culled, but which other cows need to be culled. The WWR is a good tool to help you decide.
An open cow has the worst weaning weight ratio and should be culled, but which other cows need to be culled. The WWR is a good tool to help you decide.
birdog
Well-known member
A man I used to go to church with crossed a Charbray bull on Brown Swiss cows sure made some fine looking heifers. Sorry to get off topic.
Lee VanRoss
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I do not keep large type cows however; my main concern is not cow weight but trying to get as many as possible
to calve in the 1st 30 days of the calving period.
to calve in the 1st 30 days of the calving period.
BFE
Well-known member
Excellent thread.
Most of the cows around here are 12-1500. Many people grain every day. I don't other than to get them in the catch pen, and am selecting for the lower maintenance type. The show guys seem to have the bigger 16-1800# cows.
Had a seedstock man in west Tennessee tell me he can't sell a bull from a 1400# cow, most of his are 1800. Works for him, but I just couldn't bring myself to buy any of those big girls.
Most of the cows around here are 12-1500. Many people grain every day. I don't other than to get them in the catch pen, and am selecting for the lower maintenance type. The show guys seem to have the bigger 16-1800# cows.
Had a seedstock man in west Tennessee tell me he can't sell a bull from a 1400# cow, most of his are 1800. Works for him, but I just couldn't bring myself to buy any of those big girls.
Most of our cows were in the 1,500 lb range and frame 6.0-6.5 7 years ago. After using some Gelbveigh influence and Angus bulls of current hot Angus genetics we lost frame size, weight and muscling. We went from selling at the top to being docked. Our goal is too get our cows in the 6.0 frame range and in the 1,350-1,500 lb range with most in the 1,400-1,425 lb range. In ours r environment and cows below 1,250 lbs and a 5.5 frame are too small. In our current drought our smaller cows are being culled because they require more inputs. On our forage types we need a high volume type cow.
Lee VanRoss
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I learn something new every day! I did not know a smaller cow required more inputs.
Clint_Johnson
Member
In my opinion I don't worry about weight as much as I do about efficiency and calving ability. Obviously I want cows big enough to not have any issues calving, and I want them to give as much milk as possible, but I don't want cows that need tons of feed and cost me a lot of money. I would say most of our calves are 1,300-1,400 pounds. I also understand that everyones situation is different and what works for us might not work for someone else. You have to figure out what makes you the most money while making sure your animals are in the best condition possible
Lee we breed for efficient cattle. Current research and tests show frame size and weight are poor indicators of efficiency. In fact they have shown you can reduce maintenance costs by 25% and still maintain frame size and weight by selecting for efficiency. Normally we have plenty of forage but it very low in nutrients. A cow has to consume a large quantity to maintain their condition. In order for a 5.0 frame or less cow to have enough depth, width and length to have the needed volume they aren't functional in our herd. Again we rely on visual observations of BCS and also current testing and research to select for efficient cattle that will return the most dollars per acre.
BFE
Well-known member
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Fixed it for you.
I know what you meant and seems like a minor point, but there is no such thing as same breed evolution... selective breeding enhances ability to adapt to environment
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Ebenezer
Well-known member
Not a big deal: semantics maybe, but I disagree. Within species and breeds, the pressures, selections and culling can remove genes over time. This is more important in minor breeds as a closed herd or flock over time creates a unique genepool which can actually create a hybrid pop when reintroduced into the mainstream of the breed or other pocketed populations. A geneticist told me that in long term closed populations there are alleles that do not remain due to others being dominant or by random loss. That is true evolution.
Just as the whole of breeders fear and dis inbreeding, there are sterling examples in studied populations which are totally isolated yet thriving and from a narrow (bottle necked) origin without issues. Red Deer, Soay Sheep... But surely do not study the science. Just repeat without the mind in gear: " If it works it is linebreeding but if it doesn't work it is inbreeding" and "Never inbreed or you'll create defects"! Funny thing on the Soay sheep study: they are seeing quite a variation in color and patterns. But that's for another day.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Fixed it again for you.
We are actually on the same page.
Adaptive Mutation was a very important discovery by Darwin.
ie
Bird's beak changing size and shape over generations to adapt to available foods.
Genetic change within a breed is a genetic adaptation, not evolution.
I know it seems like semantics, but without precise language, measurements skew by as much as 45-180 degrees over long periods of time leading to wrong conclusions.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
Here's someone you can argue with. I've agreed to disagree and to make you happy: you win! But you didn't!AKC articleFixed it again for you.
We are actually on the same page.
Adaptive Mutation was a very important discovery by Darwin.
ie
Bird's beak changing size and shape over generations to adapt to available foods.
Genetic change within a breed is a genetic adaptation, not evolution.
I know it seems like semantics, but without precise language, measurements skew by as much as 45-180 degrees over long periods of time leading to wrong conclusions.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
No... we all lose.
That is the problem with not keeping language precise.
100+ years later and people wrongly accept adaptation as evolution when it's not.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Over 50 years ago. I had BLACK registered Simmental half bloods. I still have a cow family from back then. Black cow family. Never bred to an Angus bull. NEVER. Yes, I finally bred to a PB black Simmental bull, but not until I raised my SV Macho As U bull. He was Homo black purebred (20 years ago) Did he have Angus genes? Sure. Like 1%. Even the Fullbloods will DNA less than 100%.
I understand a lot of people are using half and 3/4 bloods.
I actually have bred to 3/4 blood bull. My herd is far from influenced by Angus.
Size of cows. My mature herd averages 1550-1600. I have a couple will hit 1800-1900...and a few 1400.
They all range in the 5 to 6.5 frame. I used to have the 7-9 frame. I LOVE where my cattle are right now.....and they fit my environment. I couldn't say if a small cow vs a large cow needs more grain, because none of my cows get grain. We grow GRASS and a lot of it if you manage your fields (rotation). A small cow gets too fat in my environment.
No, a 1900# cow has not weaned me a 950# 205 day calf. But, a 1400# 2 year old weaned a 925# 240 day old calf! Lol. That's cheating. The cow was in our showstring and she got grain. The bull calf refused to eat but maybe 3# of grain a day. He loved his mom's milk.
Long story to say you need cattle that work in your environment. And not all the modern Simmentals are "Angus" influenced. Black is a very dominant trait.
I understand a lot of people are using half and 3/4 bloods.
I actually have bred to 3/4 blood bull. My herd is far from influenced by Angus.
Size of cows. My mature herd averages 1550-1600. I have a couple will hit 1800-1900...and a few 1400.
They all range in the 5 to 6.5 frame. I used to have the 7-9 frame. I LOVE where my cattle are right now.....and they fit my environment. I couldn't say if a small cow vs a large cow needs more grain, because none of my cows get grain. We grow GRASS and a lot of it if you manage your fields (rotation). A small cow gets too fat in my environment.
No, a 1900# cow has not weaned me a 950# 205 day calf. But, a 1400# 2 year old weaned a 925# 240 day old calf! Lol. That's cheating. The cow was in our showstring and she got grain. The bull calf refused to eat but maybe 3# of grain a day. He loved his mom's milk.
Long story to say you need cattle that work in your environment. And not all the modern Simmentals are "Angus" influenced. Black is a very dominant trait.
skangusguy
Member
Cargill in High River discounts above 950 on the grid and 1050 on a straight bid. If they need cattle bad enough that discount disappears. In April they discounted one that was 1/2 lb over 1050, end of May the biggest steer I sent was 1170, no discount.
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skangusguy
Member
Cargill in High River discounts above 950 on the grid and 1050 on a straight bid. If they need cattle bad enough that discount disappears. In April they discounted one that was 1/2 lb over 1050, end of May the biggest steer I sent was 1170, no discount.
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My problem with large cattle has nothing to to do with efficiency... it's physics. More weight puts more stress on a joint. More weight sinks further in the mud. So on and so on. A #1300ish cow seems to be a sweet spot for us. We can get a big calf, a cow that lasts 15+ years, and they hold up on our forage.
SBMF 2015
Well-known member
Funny how that works.
