Marbling...how much should you care?

[hornedfrogbbq]

We all want to produce good tasting beef (first assumption...hopefully true). But as we have discussed before, that can be an antagonistic trait to weight gain, large rears, etc. How do you consider carcass merits when selecting an AI sire? SAV is known for phenotypically attractive cattle but they tend to have lower marbling scores. Gardiner and a few other ranches specialize in marbling and producing high grade carcasses.

Do you balance them out or do you care? We know many producers down here that sell at 800lbs and never care what the carcass merits are. They sell pounds...and figure/assume/hope the angus genetics in the cattle will marble on their own.

If you balance them out, do you try and find sires that do both or do you alternate in less carcass focused bulls that tend to really grow and then switch back to a higher carcass merit sire? How do you attack it?

Do any of you think you have AI sires that do both well. Are there sires out there that you really like the look of the cattle, that marble well and have good enough feet that they aren't standing in a foot of hay for their celebrity pic for the AI houses?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Do you ever finish out your own cattle? Do you have anything to compare your breeding program you already have to see where your cattle fit in?
IMHO - too many Angus breeders have been chasing something they already have to the detriment of the phenotype of their cattle. Have you known of Angus cattle that don't grade? when fed out properly.
Heck, I have Simmental (reds & blacks) and I have never had one go Select, but have MANY go prime.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Great question. We just took a load through the feedlot and through the slaughter plant so we have our first "baseline."

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Great question. We just took a load through the feedlot and through the slaughter plant so we have our first "baseline."

That's my ultimate goal as well. Good luck!

 

[plumber_greg]

As someone that has fed their own stock, remember that there is a grid for all cattle.
Want a premium for select? Breed for that. Carcass. Want prime, breed for it.

That's where it's good to have an order buyer that knows your calves. He will buy them for the correct freeder. Or he can also buy them for the correct backgrounder. GS

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, that's why I sell private treaty to a feedlot direct. He knows my cattle and WANTS them. We have also been finishing out fall born calves for freezer trade. Must be doing something right, they also keep putting their orders in ahead of time.

 

[Nesikep]

Ours don't marble much, but I sure can't complain about the flavor or texture.. Last steer had awesome steaks and roasts,.. Next one I'll probably have back from the butcher next week or so, Looking forward to it

 

[wbvs58]

I have asked the question before but never got an answer as to how well carcases from SAV genetics grade? Are they as inferior to carcases from GAR genetics as the EPD's suggest?

Ken

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

I have asked the question before but never got an answer as to how well carcases from SAV genetics grade? Are they as inferior to carcases from GAR genetics as the EPD's suggest?

Ken

GAR puts story after story in their catalogs about very high percentage of prime on the kill sheets. They physically look like wagyu to me with a skinny rear but they seem to marble like them too. How they gain I don't know.

I would love someone that has SAV genetics to let us know how they grade out. Many/most won't care but we are interested in more info as well.

 

[Son of Butch]

Great question.
We just took a load through the feedlot and through the slaughter plant so we have our first "baseline."

That's my ultimate goal as well.

GOAL is key.
For strictly cow/calf producers, chasing carcass traits is antagonistic to profit.
It's been shown time and again pounds weaned per cow exposed is #1 in determining profit for cow/calf operators.

 

[Stickney94]

I'd agree with others about what market you are in driving the answer to this question. I sell private treaty fed animals marketed as high quality beef. My current breeding decisions are looking at Marbling, Ribeye, and Fat together, not just marbling in isolation, but marbling is definitely a selection criteria for me. However, I'm looking more at breed average or above average rather than just top 10% on marbling.

Further, time on feed and slaughter date will also greatly impact your marbling composition -- at least in my experience.

We are currently experimenting with Wagyu genetics. I think Jeanne may have a point about how far to chase the horizon on some of these outlier carcass traits. My PB Angus beef is really really good and customers like it. Wagyu definitely presents a different phenotype. The meat is also subtly different. But my jury is still out on whether I will continue down that path.

 

[wbvs58]

I'd agree with others about what market you are in driving the answer to this question. I sell private treaty fed animals marketed as high quality beef. My current breeding decisions are looking at Marbling, Ribeye, and Fat together, not just marbling in isolation, but marbling is definitely a selection criteria for me. However, I'm looking more at breed average or above average rather than just top 10% on marbling.

Further, time on feed and slaughter date will also greatly impact your marbling composition -- at least in my experience.

We are currently experimenting with Wagyu genetics. I think Jeanne may have a point about how far to chase the horizon on some of these outlier carcass traits. My PB Angus beef is really really good and customers like it. Wagyu definitely presents a different phenotype. The meat is also subtly different. But my jury is still out on whether I will continue down that path.

The marbling EPD is calculated from ultrasound data usually on yearlings in paddock condition. Is this a good indication of how they will be after being fed out?

Ken

 

[CreekAngus]

Someone I respect in the business who buys cattle all the time for feed lots, told me a sack of corn does a better job of marbling than any EPD ever has. I do believe GAR has the patent on marbling, most of their buyers are folks selling at the rail, but I wonder how terminal those cattle are becoming.

 

[Stickney94]

The marbling EPD is calculated from ultrasound data usually on yearlings in paddock condition. Is this a good indication of how they will be after being fed out?

Ken

Excellent question. Perhaps there are some in depth scientific papers on all of this, but my personal experience is this:

1. I'm using a feeding program very much like my Dad's which he tweaked over 50 years of feeding out cattle. His fat cattle graded well and sold high.
2. The cows that I have AAA data on that have high marbling EPDs have produced progeny that have high marbling.
3. Bulls that I have used that have high marbling EPD data have also consistently produced well marbled beef.
4. Marbling is a moderately heritable beef trait based on a quick Google search.

So, my experience is that the EPD for marbling is generally useful. I will say that I've shifted my weighting of marbling down and am looking at Ribeye size and backfat altogether in sire selection.

Part of my sales program is that I ask to sample a cut from most animals we sell. My wife and daughter are the judging panel. Through that research there is one cow family that consistently performs well, particularly for tenderness (in addition to marbling and flavor).

 

[sagecreek]

GAR puts story after story in their catalogs about very high percentage of prime on the kill sheets. They physically look like wagyu to me with a skinny rear but they seem to marble like them too. How they gain I don't know.

I would love someone that has SAV genetics to let us know how they grade out. Many/most won't care but we are interested in more info as well.

We have a very high sav percentage cowherd we've never followed up on grade quality but the feeders love to feed them they are very easy fleshing and put on weight fast, had lunch with Kelly Schaff a while back and That conversation came up on marbling on his cattle he had a story where one of his customers had information on his sav bred steers there was a good percentage that went prime and the rest all went choice, and his opinion was all angus cattle grade well no matter what

 

[sstterry]

and his opinion was all angus cattle grade well no matter what

Prove it.

This sounds like more of the whole "Certified Angus BS".

The grade depends on genetics, raising, feeding, and finishing.

The Angus Association did a masterful job of misleading the public and marketing their breed, but just saying that the beef is better because it is Angus (actually just black these days) is "horse hockey".

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Prove an opinion?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

We have a very high sav percentage cowherd we've never followed up on grade quality but the feeders love to feed them they are very easy fleshing and put on weight fast, had lunch with Kelly Schaff a while back and That conversation came up on marbling on his cattle he had a story where one of his customers had information on his sav bred steers there was a good percentage that went prime and the rest all went choice, and his opinion was all angus cattle grade well no matter what

Welcome to Cattle Today. Where is your operation sagecreek?

 

[sstterry]

The problem is, people these days, take opinion as fact because it is on the internet.
All Angus cattle do not grade well and that is a fact.

Prove me wrong.

 

[sagecreek]

Welcome to Cattle Today. Where is your operation sagecreek?

We're right in the center of Montana