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It went right over your head, didn't it?

There's a reason large operations can use debt successfully and with less risk. But small operators get sold the idea that debt is easy to manage and has little risk and that's just not true. There are a lot of people buying that, but a majority doesn't mean something is true. A lot of very wealthy people started out minimizing debt and transitioned later when it made more sense. There are also people that have managed debt successfully. But I'm not here to convince you. Just be aware that it's easier to sleep at night when everything you've worked for isn't in jeopardy every night you lay your head on the pillow.
Explain to me in detail why a small business wouldn't want to consider debt as a tool. Explain the difference between small and large businesses that would mean small businesses shouldn't use debt. If you believe everything you said went over my head then maybe you can be kind enough to try to explain it in a way I might understand.
 
@Warren Allison so I have a credit line for $20K that is sitting idle (no balance). It just clicked on me, after reading your comments, that if buy 10 weaned calves, roughly $7000, right before spring flush and carry them for 6 months I can finance the whole operation for the cost of interests which is around $300. After the the sale, pay back the principal and pocket the difference. Am I missing something in this funny math?
 
@Warren Allison so I have a credit line for $20K that is sitting idle (no balance). It just clicked on me, after reading your comments, that if buy 10 weaned calves, roughly $7000, right before spring flush and carry them for 6 months I can finance the whole operation for the cost of interests which is around $300. After the the sale, pay back the principal and pocket the difference. Am I missing something in this funny math?
Why not 30 and triple your profit?
 
I didn't realise there were so many wealthy tycoons on here owning multiple companies. The taboo of asking a person how many cattle they own must not apply to how many companies they own. I feel a bit inadequate just paying for things from my bank account, when the balance starts to look a bit low I stop spending. All I can say from my experience in my previous life is that you must be feeding your accountants and solicitors well maintaining all these company structures.

Ken
 
@Warren Allison so I have a credit line for $20K that is sitting idle (no balance). It just clicked on me, after reading your comments, that if buy 10 weaned calves, roughly $7000, right before spring flush and carry them for 6 months I can finance the whole operation for the cost of interests which is around $300. After the the sale, pay back the principal and pocket the difference. Am I missing something in this funny math?
Probly way off subject here.
But you ain't gonna be buying 10 grazing calves around here for 7000

I watched 450lb HEIFERS bring 2.49 today

Edit to add...
Sorry. I should've put it in the calf sales thread. Your post made me chuckle a little even tho I knew what u were saying!
 
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I don't have cash??? What are you even talking about? If I've got $50,000 in cash to run the cattle for a year or $60,000 for a down payment on the neighbors place that I think will come up for sale is that not cash money? I have cash, I just don't have an unlimited supply of it. Make no mistake, I'm not rich I have to get up and go to work everyday.

Lets say you want to build a barn that cost $50,000. You figure you can get a 6% loan for 5 years and have payments or wait 5 years and save up to pay cash. I promise inflation on that barn will be at least 3% a year if not 5%. In simple terms the barn you got a bid on today will be more expensive to build in 5 years. And don't say if you didn't have the payments you could save the money faster because you can pay extra payments too, it's the same thing.

We're not talking Dave Ramsey stuff here. He gives good advice but he doesn't give business advice, he gives consumer debt advice and they are 2 different things.
You keep exampling inflation as though this current financial situation is the norm. The government pays off tremendous amounts of debt by using inflation to discount past dollar value and paying it with current dollar value. Betting on inflation can make money, but it can also put you in the poorhouse. A lot of people have had severe financial problems with adjustable rate loans.
 
Explain to me in detail why a small business wouldn't want to consider debt as a tool. Explain the difference between small and large businesses that would mean small businesses shouldn't use debt. If you believe everything you said went over my head then maybe you can be kind enough to try to explain it in a way I might understand.
Do you know the statistics on how many small businesses fail and how many succeed? Why do you think most small businesses fail? Bad debt management is number one.

And I'm not saying that debt can't be incurred and handled wisely. I'm saying that most people that advocate debt loads as a tool to building wealth are either excellent managers or on their way to the poor house.
 
I understand what you are saying. You are not legally responsible to pay back a loan a company you own stock in secured. You may feel a personal. moral obligation to do so, you are not legally bound to do so, and creditors can not go after your personal assets. But say you did have a company that borrowed money and because of a variety of things, the company did not have the funds on hand to pay the loan off at maturity. If you wanted to pay it, and keep the company alive and viable, then what you could do is loan the company the money to pay the loan. You wouldn't want to run to the bank and get your money out, to pay that company's loan. If and when the company makes a profit use that money first to re-pay you plus interest. Or, you could just let it pay you interest only, and keep renewing the loan. If you set the interest rate at say 8%, you'd be as well off or even better than having it in a CD or any other kind of liquid account.

I don't know anyone that borrows money via a company they own, with the intention on defaulting on it. These are just legal business and tax strategies that everyone uses, and has existed as long as corporations have in the US, and it is just good business sense to make use of it. I mean, you could take out a personal loan to buy a house, if you wanted to. instead of a mortgage. Of course an honest loan officer would try to explain to you the foolishness of doing so. Interest on a personal loan is higher and is not tax deductible like a mortgage is.
I have sold someone a cow or two or maybe a bull, for cash money, but anytime someone has bought a herd, or a group, they have always paid with a certified or cashier's check from their company or LLC. I don't think I have done a very good job explaining this. Too many people are not understanding ( and of course, there is the handful that will argue with me if I post today is ground hog's day, but most people ignore them like I do. @Mountaintown Creek Ranch , @GoWyo , @Lucky ...help? :)
It's quite the opposite here. I sell a lot of cattle from the farm. I get some cash and lots of checks but never have gotten a company check for cows.
 
@Warren Allison so I have a credit line for $20K that is sitting idle (no balance). It just clicked on me, after reading your comments, that if buy 10 weaned calves, roughly $7000, right before spring flush and carry them for 6 months I can finance the whole operation for the cost of interests which is around $300. After the the sale, pay back the principal and pocket the difference. Am I missing something in this funny math?
Yes, Is it a HELOC? And how long is it for? Yes, you'd get that 7k out and pay ijnterest on it til you put it back in. Or you can put part back in, etc. Or don't put the 7k in, and buy 7k more. And if is a HELOC, the interest you pay would be tax deductible. You aren't using OPM, though. You are using the equity in your house...your money.
 
@Warren Allison so I have a credit line for $20K that is sitting idle (no balance). It just clicked on me, after reading your comments, that if buy 10 weaned calves, roughly $7000, right before spring flush and carry them for 6 months I can finance the whole operation for the cost of interests which is around $300. After the the sale, pay back the principal and pocket the difference. Am I missing something in this funny math?
You don't want to go cheap with yearlings. You would need to figure in some money for expenses, probably $200-$300 per calf. Not all of that would likely be cash expenses for you (commission, freight, labor, rent). The nice thing about calves is that they appreciate every day. Just make sure you get them to gain weight, and don't have a high death loss.
 
If you are breeding PB cattle, join your state breed assn. and State Beef Producers. If commercial, join State Beef Producers. Get involved.
Advertise in your breeds directory.
I don't know half the people that know me. But, I stay involved.
My nephew is phenomenal on FB. Posts all our babies as they are born. Even all this winter with everything filthy, he posts our yearlings and cows. Gets PR.
I'm friends with you on FB possibly... Brad Harris is me. I found you via the pictures your nephew posts to everything Simmentals.

We've been crossing Sim and Angus. But thinking hard about keeping only the Sim cattle going forward if I keep any to breed. Their carcass quality and volume are great for what I'm trying to do.

Yalls farm page is definitely attractive. And informative. He's good at what he does.

Been trying to get ours going a bit better and more attractive.

You have very nice cattle, Jeanne.
 
You keep exampling inflation as though this current financial situation is the norm. The government pays off tremendous amounts of debt by using inflation to discount past dollar value and paying it with current dollar value. Betting on inflation can make money, but it can also put you in the poorhouse. A lot of people have had severe financial problems with adjustable rate loans.
I use inflation as example because it's typically 3% year after after year. So when you are saving cash to pay for something you need to think about that. I'm just like most people in that I might use cash, might finance, might skip the purchase altogether depending on what else We've got going. I've had adjustable rate loans and had them go both ways on me. I try to avoid them when possible and don't have any right now.
 
Thanks Brad - nephew Phil Paradis does a great job!!! On my defense (LOL), I drive tractor while we're feeding bales and he walks thru the cattle waiting for me to bring bales, so he snaps tons of pics.
I have a web site that I created like 15 years ago. My web program is obsolete and when I finally upgraded my computer, I was unable to use it. So, have not made changes for 3 years to my site. Spent the last week determined to find a way to get control or start from scratch. Long week, but finally able to use old program and have started updating my site. WooHoo
 
Warren, the issue I have with your theory is that no matter whether it's me personally or a company I have formed I'm old school and feel I am responsible for my debts. You state again that if the company looses money I would not be responsible. If someone looses money they should pay it back, period.

I agree. If I am understanding it correctly, the idea is to set things up in a way so if things go south I don't have to legally pay back the money i borrowed. Sounds like legalized theft to me.
 
Thanks Brad - nephew Phil Paradis does a great job!!! On my defense (LOL), I drive tractor while we're feeding bales and he walks thru the cattle waiting for me to bring bales, so he snaps tons of pics.
I have a web site that I created like 15 years ago. My web program is obsolete and when I finally upgraded my computer, I was unable to use it. So, have not made changes for 3 years to my site. Spent the last week determined to find a way to get control or start from scratch. Long week, but finally able to use old program and have started updating my site. WooHoo
I was referencing yalls FB page. Did see your actual site too. Looked good.

We are needing to create a website in a bad kind of way. FB only right now and it isn't serving me well. That stuff is Chinese to me though. Shall find a professional and soon. ☺

I have a friend named Rick Paradis, just moved up from Florida a couple years back. They related? Possibly from New York originally.

Do yall
 
I was referencing yalls FB page. Did see your actual site too. Looked good.

We are needing to create a website in a bad kind of way. FB only right now and it isn't serving me well. That stuff is Chinese to me though. Shall find a professional and soon. ☺

I have a friend named Rick Paradis, just moved up from Florida a couple years back. They related? Possibly from New York originally.

Do yall
15 years or so ago, when FB came about, the advice of the day was to use your FB page to drive traffic to your webpage, and has always had a place to post your link to your site. Past few years though, the reverse is happening. I see it all the time in the entertainment field especially. Lots of even big time bands and artists, will have a website, and when you go to it. It will have tabs like home, contact etc at the top, and some tabs aren't even hot. But the content on their home page will have nothing but links to their cocial media: FB Instagram, Spotify, YouTube channel, etc. There is where you find booking info, merch links, tour schedule, current photos and videos, etc. FB, and others are free, for one thing, and so much easier to load and change out, pics, calendars, merch, etc. and FB's ticket lijn is a lot easier and cheaper for the fans than eventbrite , etc. Yu no longer have to pay $100;s to someone to build a site, and hundreds of dollars a month the maintain, change, etc. You now can use a cheap, do-it-yourself website builder like GoDaddy to grab a domain, post a pic or two, and the icons for your social media spots, which you can update and change content yourself. Often if you use a search engine to find a website, their FB page will be the top result, and their webpage will be further down in the results.

That is how I found Cattle Today, actually. I was searching for info on some breed....I forgot which.... and the 1st 5 or so were links to threads on here, followed by FB pages of breeders, then the association link, and then websites for articles about the breed, etc.
 
I was referencing yalls FB page. Did see your actual site too. Looked good.

We are needing to create a website in a bad kind of way. FB only right now and it isn't serving me well. That stuff is Chinese to me though. Shall find a professional and soon. ☺

I have a friend named Rick Paradis, just moved up from Florida a couple years back. They related? Possibly from New York originally.

Do yall
No - I'm sure we don't have any Paradis' in Florida. And, nephew & I are born & raised in Rhode Island. All our relatives are in RI. Phil made the Simme Valley FB page.
I finally updated "some" of my web site.
 

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