Make a recomendation

[Bigfoot]

I took the AI class about 25 years ago. Dabbled with it some off and on every since then. A small sprinkling of cows at a time, is all I have ever bred. I never use cidrs, any injections etc. and so on.

Here is what I have always done:
If there is a cow I want to AI, I put her and the calf up after the calf is a couple of weeks old. I usually ignore the first heat, but make note of it. When she comes in the second standing heat, I breed her, and again in 12 hours. Skip the lecture, I know its overkill, but its my way. I'm not using high dollar semen, and I have excellent results. It's all a big pain in the tail, and anymore I just do it on the kids cows, trying to get a superior replacement heifer.


I am going to try to sync up, and do a timed AI on about 15 heifers in mid May, and another 15 or so in September.

1. What online resource would you guys recommend for me to self educate on the process?
2. Estimated cost per heifer in supplies?------Not semen though, its here now
3. Unless somebody has a better suggestion, I'm going to get everything thru my vet.

 

[bpwagner115]

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/estrus_synch.html

The estrus planner is a great tool to set up your sync program. It will give you a calendar that you can follow when you choose a protocol. There are many other good links posted to help you choose a protocol.

This app from ABS website looks easy to operate as well...
http://estrussynch.com/

I usually get all supplies from our local vet.

Cost of program will depend on the protocol that you choose and the sync program actually calculates the cost of your protocol and can compare a couple different ones if you like. Last year we used 14 day CIDR-PG for TAI. Cost includes $ 10 for CIDR approximately $3/dose of PG and GNRH. So right around $16 per head not including semen.

 

[Bigfoot]

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/estrus_synch.html

The estrus planner is a great tool to set up your sync program. It will give you a calendar that you can follow when you choose a protocol. There are many other good links posted to help you choose a protocol.

This app from ABS website looks easy to operate as well...
http://estrussynch.com/

I usually get all supplies from our local vet.

Cost of program will depend on the protocol that you choose and the sync program actually calculates the cost of your protocol and can compare a couple different ones if you like. Last year we used 14 day CIDR-PG for TAI. Cost includes $ 10 for CIDR approximately $3/dose of PG and GNRH. So right around $16 per head not including semen.

Thanks a million.

 

[Bigfoot]

Holy crap, I need cliff notes, but im starting reading now. Thanks again.

 

[bpwagner115]

Not sure if we will use the 14 day protocol or the 7 this year. 14 is nice because you can give prebreeding vaccinations at time of CIDR insertion and it eliminates a trip through the chute. We had just under 56% conception using the 14 day protocol. I would be curious if anyone has used both the 7 day and 14 day protocols and seen an advantage of either over the other.

 

[wbvs58]

My recommendation would be that you do them in batches of about 5. If you are not inseminating all the time having 15 to do at once fatigue quickly sets in and your feel and judgement goes off. Things always feel nice and straight forward when you are fresh.
Ken

 

[Bigfoot]

My recommendation would be that you do them in batches of about 5. If you are not inseminating all the time having 15 to do at once fatigue quickly sets in and your feel and judgement goes off. Things always feel nice and straight forward when you are fresh.
Ken

Good advice. I'm used to doing one at a time, and rarely.

 

[bse]

If your doing your own work, whichever protocol you use, breed them as needed when they come in. I think your conception will be better than with TAI, and it will let you get a little rest in between, out of the 15 id usually catch 5 to 7, 12 hours before id do the rest. If your gonna do TAI id use 66 hours after pg. Ive used both the 14 day and 7 day, both work just fine the key to either is getting them to come into heat. The 14 day takes a little more planning but will work just fine.
You can reuse the cidrs on your second batch of hefiers, used ones work great on hefiers there more pliable and not as rough on them.
first bunch: second bunch:
15 cidrs $9.25 each $138.75 no cidrs
1 100ml lute $ 38.00 1 100ml lute $38.00
3 20ml factrel $ 60.00 3 20ml factrel $60.00
15 patches $ 15.00 15 patches $15.00
total $ 251.75 total $ 113.00
grand total of $364.75 for an average of $ 12.15 per head not to bad

 

[Lucky_P]

BF,
I'm with bse; If you can do it, I'd sure watch and breed on observed heats, then TAI any that haven't cycled in by that time.

Our experience with TAI the first time out of the gate was so bad that we've not tried it again, and are unlikely to...if I don't see 'em standing, I'm probably not dropping any semen in them.

 

[Bigfoot]

I appreciate the responses. I think I'm going to rule out timed AI, but sync and do observed heat. What about my 2 straw method? Waste or not. It could get in my pocket doing this many. I don't mind doing it on a few. This semen wasn't expensive, but I'd really like to make it last.

 

[cow pollinater]

Instead of two straws I'd do one and then watch for repeats in 21 days. That will give you more pregnant cows than doubling up on semen for one round will.
FWIW I prefer to see a cow in heat but I do breed literally thousands of synced cows every year and conception is so similar to a hot cow that I don't differentiate between the two any more especially if there's a cidr involved. With a TAI cow you know when she ovulated so if you go that route you can forget about the second straw.

 

[plumber_greg]

Don't want to hijack, but what's the difference others have noticed between the 14 and the 7 day cidrs? gs

 

[Bigfoot]

Don't want to hijack, but what's the difference others have noticed between the 14 and the 7 day cidrs? gs

Good question.

 

[Bigfoot]

Instead of two straws I'd do one and then watch for repeats in 21 days. That will give you more pregnant cows than doubling up on semen for one round will.
FWIW I prefer to see a cow in heat but I do breed literally thousands of synced cows every year and conception is so similar to a hot cow that I don't differentiate between the two any more especially if there's a cidr involved. With a TAI cow you know when she ovulated so if you go that route you can forget about the second straw.

I will just do one straw, doing this many. My thinking on it when I use two straws is like this---------I say well she's standing, I wonder how long she's been standing? So I breed her. Then I start wondering, well what if she had just started standing? So I breed her again in 12 hours. I'm real indecisive that way about a lot of things.

 

[RoppFamilyFarm]

I Personally don't do the breeding, but I insert CiDRs & give the shots. The gal that does our breeding follows a 7 day program with Inseminating them exactly 62 Hours after pulling the CiDR and giving a PG injection. After we inseminate we follow up with another shot of GnRH. We do this on cows and heifers both. We breed as close to 62 hours (not 72) as we can. We don't wait for any signs of heat, we just breed. We are 100% over the last 4 years soo far with my small herd of PB Shorthorns (knock on wood). No clean up bull on the farm. We only use single straws.

 

[cow pollinater]

Instead of two straws I'd do one and then watch for repeats in 21 days. That will give you more pregnant cows than doubling up on semen for one round will.
FWIW I prefer to see a cow in heat but I do breed literally thousands of synced cows every year and conception is so similar to a hot cow that I don't differentiate between the two any more especially if there's a cidr involved. With a TAI cow you know when she ovulated so if you go that route you can forget about the second straw.

I will just do one straw, doing this many. My thinking on it when I use two straws is like this---------I say well she's standing, I wonder how long she's been standing? So I breed her. Then I start wondering, well what if she had just started standing? So I breed her again in 12 hours. I'm real indecisive that way about a lot of things.

I understand your logic. :nod: I did it that way for a long time and it took me getting burned out and to busy to do a second breeding to figure out that it wasn't worthwhile. Once I got to that point I tested it on dairy cows with a couple hundred observations both ways and decided that it was to the producers benefit if I bred them once only. It's to MY benefit to breed them twice as i sell a second straw but I do what is most profitable for my customers.

 

[Bigfoot]

Just throwing thoughts at the wall since we have so many knowledgeable people on one thread. You guys do this a lot, and I do it very little.



The following people are not members of this forum:
A DVM (very experienced) suggest breeding on an observed heat, with estrus sync. I can make that work. I'll have a week off to accommodate both groups. I may have to move the September group to October, but no problem.


A person that AIs almost everyday suggest timed AI. I can make that work. I'll probably just pay him to inseminate if I do.


I'm kind of in a conundrum for a slow thinker like me. Two good sets of advice. Clean up bull is probably going to get his fair share either way.

 

[tamarack]

Bigfoot, This is how I do it, everyone gets a shot of Estumate and I check morning and evening if they are in standing heat morning breed evening if night breed morning. I also put them scratch off tags on back if I miss a time I breed by the tag. I have had good luck probably 70% or so.