Lowline Angus

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My oldest daughter raises goats. She has over 200 does. You get a much faster return on your money with goats. The gestation period is half of a cows and you sell the finished product when it is about 6 months old (some are butchered at younger age).

The cattle that you saw at the fair is a whole different world than cattle that are sold and shipped to the feedyards. There really is no way that you can compare the two. For one thing, the cows and heifers that you saw were show stock and the only way that they will see a dinner plate is if they don't reproduce, get too old or have some other problem. Granted the way some are fed is a bit extreme, but that is what wins in the show ring and people like to win.

It's nice that you like the smaller animals. People like different things. If we all liked the same thing, life would be pretty boring.

However the hard sell about how the smaller stock is better gets really old after a while.
 
We bred some limi's to a red lowline. Look like decent calves. We will give them some time. The plan was termination.
Lowline prices have gotten out of hand. Cheaper to knock the size out of what you have. If that is your goal.
We have been trying to knock some size off our Red Angus, using AI. You can find some good quality smaller frame Red Angus. Lately though the price for smaller frame seems to be going up.
We finally got what we hope is a keeper bull calf (we usually steer them when they hit the ground). This little guy looked and acted like a bull before he hit the ground. He should be smaller framed.Time will tell.
 
Bluestem,
Bluestem":3cqdds1i said:
We bred some limi's to a red lowline. Look like decent calves. We will give them some time. The plan was termination.
Lowline prices have gotten out of hand. Cheaper to knock the size out of what you have. If that is your goal.
We have been trying to knock some size off our Red Angus, using AI. You can find some good quality smaller frame Red Angus. Lately though the price for smaller frame seems to be going up.
We finally got what we hope is a keeper bull calf (we usually steer them when they hit the ground). This little guy looked and acted like a bull before he hit the ground. He should be smaller framed.Time will tell.

That makes sense. I don't understand paying a premium price for something to raise a terminal product out of. It takes longer to pay for your cows. Your method is economical and wise.
 
Zendog and others, you won't find much of an audience here. Everyone here is in the large scale production mode. I would compare it to the shipping industry. For moving large amounts of goods, you want a large truck. Long-haul truckers are going to laugh at you pushing Toyotas on them. You would want to sell Toyotas to those hauling groceries only. (Of course, there are those who drive a truck only because they feel more like a man.)

So rather than saying there is a proper size cow, it's obvious it depends on your situation. There is a place for lowlines, but not on the farms of people here.

You mentioned lowlines are a fad. Perhaps the price won't last, but I think the cattle will. Since we have no plans to control our population, the farm of everyone here will eventually be split into 5 acre parcels or less, and water will be scarce for irrigation. The 1000+ acre farm we leased when I was a kid is now all broken up. My brother in Montana has a couple hundred acre farm for which he's being offered millions by developers.

If you only have feed to support 900 pounds of bovine, you're going to need a small one. If you can support 1800 pounds, do you get a big cow or 2 small ones? Being a herd animal, two are probably better.

chippie":2ncg9dt3 said:
Use whatever reasoning makes you happy to justify your low-line cattle.

Granted, we do not have a lot of cattle, however the few that do go to butcher are use to being brought in, fed in a trough and turned out. They are used to people and aren't idiots.

I was able to load our last steer in a stock trailer without a chute. Ran him into the barn, parked the trailer in the gate, put a tub of grain in the trailer and herded him in. He was not a pet. He had been handled in a sensible manner so he wasn't afraid. If you only have a few cattle, they don't have to be wild. Especially if you raised them.

To each his own.

Interesting that lowline promoters are just desperately trying to "justify" themselves, yet large cattle owners desperately argue that larger animals are no harder to handle. Sure some handle fine, but how can you say in general a large animal is no harder than a small one? Reminds me of the fellow who tried telling me a Holstein makes the best family cow. One of his claims was that if stepping on your foot, a 1600 pound Holstein hurts no more than a 1000 pound Jersey. Heck, probably doesn't hurt anymore than a goat stepping on you!
 
djinwa":k2s3earp said:
Interesting that lowline promoters are just desperately trying to "justify" themselves, yet large cattle owners desperately argue that larger animals are no harder to handle. Sure some handle fine, but how can you say in general a large animal is no harder than a small one? Reminds me of the fellow who tried telling me a Holstein makes the best family cow. One of his claims was that if stepping on your foot, a 1600 pound Holstein hurts no more than a 1000 pound Jersey. Heck, probably doesn't hurt anymore than a goat stepping on you!

I saw a friend yesterday at the feed store. She bought a new weanling MA heifer for her daughter who is in FFA. The heifer weighs 600 lbs. The heifer was green halter broke. When they unloaded the heifer, they had two lines on the halter - her husband on the left, and she was on the right so that they could get her to the pen & pasture behind their house. They live in a subdivision and you have to go through their back yard to get to the pen. Well the 575 lb heifer lunged at her husband, knocked him down, turned around and knocked my friend down, stepped on her and broke 3 ribs.

So your remark really is sort of silly. Any animal can hurt you. If you are small hobby farmer and have only a few animals, take the time to gentle them so that you can work with them. If they are idiots, ship them.
Also, if your animals are not gentle and you do not have the facilities to handle them, you shouldn't own the cattle. Every rancher that I know who raises beef has facilities to work their animals. It's a matter of good management and common sense.

If the people want to raise the smaller stock that is fine, but if they do not gentle the stock or have the facilities to handle and load them, just because they are smaller doesn't mean that it will be easier to work them.
 
backhoeboogie":3r1055f4 said:
You could probably call our version of the white tail deer around here low lines. They are less than half the size of those in the northeastern states and people feed them year round. It is not feed.

People haul calves to the sale barn from little tiny black cows. I assume the buyers don't know if the calves are 4 months old or 7 months old. How do you visualize those calves ever amounting to much?


You can get close by tail brush length the closer to the fetlock closer to a year in age. It is nowhere as good as tooth aging but will get you in the ballpark on calves and yearlings.
 
Caustic Burno":2af6lrgu said:
backhoeboogie":2af6lrgu said:
You could probably call our version of the white tail deer around here low lines. They are less than half the size of those in the northeastern states and people feed them year round. It is not feed.

People haul calves to the sale barn from little tiny black cows. I assume the buyers don't know if the calves are 4 months old or 7 months old. How do you visualize those calves ever amounting to much?


You can get close by tail brush length the closer to the fetlock closer to a year in age. It is nowhere as good as tooth aging but will get you in the ballpark on calves and yearlings.

They've got a pasture full down south of here a little bit. Tiny angus cows. I don't think that herd has ever been wormed. They load up the calves a few times each year and haul them to the sale barn. The cows are around 7 to 800 lbs. It would remind you of angus back in the 70's. I don't know who owns them. We just drive by there.
 
backhoeboogie":3bw9gcjy said:
Caustic Burno":3bw9gcjy said:
backhoeboogie":3bw9gcjy said:
You could probably call our version of the white tail deer around here low lines. They are less than half the size of those in the northeastern states and people feed them year round. It is not feed.

People haul calves to the sale barn from little tiny black cows. I assume the buyers don't know if the calves are 4 months old or 7 months old. How do you visualize those calves ever amounting to much?


You can get close by tail brush length the closer to the fetlock closer to a year in age. It is nowhere as good as tooth aging but will get you in the ballpark on calves and yearlings.

They've got a pasture full down south of here a little bit. Tiny angus cows. I don't think that herd has ever been wormed. They load up the calves a few times each year and haul them to the sale barn. The cows are around 7 to 800 lbs. It would remind you of angus back in the 70's. I don't know who owns them. We just drive by there.

They are moving away from calling them Lowline. The are now calling them American Aberdeen.

From their website:

Lowline Breeders Change Name to Aberdeen
To more accurately reflect the heritage of the Aberdeen breed, the American Lowline Registry has changed its name to American Aberdeen Association. The Aberdeen breed is known for calving ease, docility, efficient grass or feed conversion and meat quality.
 
WalnutCrest":21at1ud0 said:
Interesting.

I would have suspected the word "Angus" was the most valuable part of their copyright (assuming they had one).

Had an interesting conversation with an "Angus" seed stock producer. He also started a Low Line herd some time back because he could private treaty them for more $$$ that the bigger -- standard sized - - calves. He said that premium was pretty much over now. Perhaps the name change reduced prices?
 
Guess maybe using LL would mean LESS angus in the resulting cross? Pretty funny since the calves will be 50/50 from the sire and dam. How would he figure not getting "too much angus blood"by using a LL.

I have bought a few angus that I suspect were LL influenced for little or nothing at sales. Everyone laughs at the "little short cows". The one was about 750 lbs, called her shorty and she raised nice calves by "normal"sized angus bulls. Have several of her daughters/grand daughters and I like them.
But then, my son and I are known for buying the "low end"of cows at these sales. I find that if managed right, I can make more on these "crummy or little short cows" than on a high priced one. Since we are commercial, and we rent alot of land, we can take less than "nice" cattle and get them to raise a decent calf and cull the cow if need be and still make a little. Some have turned out to be really decent cows once they got a little feed and some care. I am not putting down anyone that raises real nice cattle or purebred breeders. We buy GOOD purebred bulls and occasionally keep a bull calf out of a nicer cow that is by a purchased bull. But, all that, I have found that these "short" cows will put a decent calf on the ground, and at weaning the calf is 3/4 as tall as the momma and as good as most of the rest.

Our cows as a rule average in the 10-1200 lb range. They seem to give us the most return for the input. They seem to be good grazers, and we seldom have much trouble with calving. We use easy calving bulls on the first calf heifers, but have 2 bulls that are + weight bulls on the different pastures of cows. We don't have many feet problems. A neighbor has BIG cattle, averaging 14-1700 lbs and he has consistent feet/leg problems. Some is probably genetic, but some is size I am sure.

I also am interested in some experimenting with the lowlines. If you look at the pictures of the angus cattle that were winning in the show rings in the 50's they were SMALL!!!! Then they got to be like Chianina's and I needed to stand on a bucket to reach them to breed A I. I am at this point doing a little experimenting with some other breeds on my dairy crosses to put some more butt on the calves since anything with dairy influence will get discounted here at the sales.

If the original poster had/has a market for smaller halves of beef, I think LL is a good way to go and the easiest is to get some semen and breed "down"to the size.

Just for reference, we sold 4 open cows avg weight 1050 and 4 weaned steer calves 475 lb size. a couple of weeks ago. Cows brought in the 60's calves brought in the 1.50+. Don't have the stub....but I do know they brought right at $5028.00 after all deductions. I turned around that same day and bought 5 cows and 6 calves ( one was supposed to have twins but they didn't guarantee it). Cows were sold with 175-200 lb calves. 4 bull calves, twins were heifers. Paid $5050 for the 11 total head. So that was an investment of about $22.00 for 3 more head We banded the bull calves, one cow had very short teeth but they were all in decent shape body wise and the calves all seemed to be doing good. They are all out at pasture with a bull. Unless we have a disaster, and some die or something as has happened in the past, these less than great cows will make money just in the calf crop, and any that breed will be a plus. 2 were fairly young so have a potential to be around for many years. This has little to do with the LL and small cattle, but just a little bit of what we do. I find that my jersey beef which is smaller sized, has a greater following than the real big "finished on grain"cattle also.
 
There was about 60 or so low lines at the sale today. Cows bred 3 to 5 months weighing 950ish brought 50 cents. Calves weighing about 300 brought 80 cents. These were advertised as registered cows with papers available.
 
Dave":3ojkasn3 said:
There was about 60 or so low lines at the sale today. Cows bred 3 to 5 months weighing 950ish brought 50 cents. Calves weighing about 300 brought 80 cents. These were advertised as registered cows with papers available.

Jackpot!!! How many did you pick off?
 
Stocker Steve":3n4othck said:
Dave":3n4othck said:
There was about 60 or so low lines at the sale today. Cows bred 3 to 5 months weighing 950ish brought 50 cents. Calves weighing about 300 brought 80 cents. These were advertised as registered cows with papers available.

Jackpot!!! How many did you pick off?

none
 

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