Lowline Angus

[zendog]

I raised a couple of Angus X Simmental steers this year and sold 3 sides direct to customers for $2.00 per pound – custom cut, wrapped, labeled and frozen. I am a hobby farmer. I was not looking to make money, but I did OK. I may have made a little, I will have a freezer full of great beef, and I certainly had a lot of fun.

I want to do this next year, but I am looking at smaller breeds because, the only problem I have found is locating people who can handle 370+ pounds of meat at one time.

The small beef cow I am most interested in is the Lowline Angus. My Internet research leads me to believe that raising Lowline Angus for seed stock is where big money can be made by serious cattlemen – for the next decade. First, these ARE fad animals, like Llamas were and Alpacas are but, unlike Llamas and Alpacas – which have no real value in agriculture, the Lowline Angus appear to be more than competitive with any other breed of cattle for production of beef for market. That is: they produce more quality beef per acre of pasture and they have a host of other advantages, for example (see: http://www.minicowswest.com/info.htm). Once the fad is over and these animals are selling at market price, a lot of serious producers, not just hobby farmers like me, will be replacing their beef herds with these little guys.

I would like to raise Lowline steers next year unfortunately, the inflated market makes that very difficult. Ranchers raising Lowline Angus are selling small cattle at very large prices to other folks wanting to cash in while the supply is very small and the demand high. You would not think that steers (whose only value is beef) would sell for much more than market price, but apparently, a lot of people want them for the same reason I do: better sized sides of beef for direct to customer sales.

All this leads me to conclude that serious money will be made raising Lowline Angus until the bubble bursts. Considering, the supposed superiority of the breed, I cannot see how the bubble will burst for at least 10 years.

I would be interested in the thoughts of serious cattlemen concerning the prospects for this breed.

BTW I have no financial or other interest in promoting the breed and I freely admit my deep ignorance concerning cattle ranching in general. I offer this post only out of curiosity.

 

[Frankie]

You have to consider that in getting a ligher side of beef, you're reducing the size of each cut. You get the same number of steaks from any cow. It's the size of the cut. I don't know much about minature cattle or smaller breeds, but most people like at least an 8 oz ribeye. Will the Lowline consistently produce that?

You're sensible to realize that Lowlines are a niche market. I'd disagree that "serious cattlemen" are going to turn to Lowlines. I'd also question the claim that they produce more quality beef per acre of pasture. You should realize that any breeder/association can make almost whatever claims they want. Can they back them up with some scientific/university research? Is your meat processer set up to handle those small animals or will he charge more? The feedlots don't want them. The big packers don't want them. Any business venture is a risk. I know some people who made big bucks in the ostrich era and some that lost big bucks when it collapsed. You pays your money and takes your chances.

 

[Angus In Texas]

It is actually a very interesting topic that you have brought up. I know of a few ranchers in Wyoming that are starting to develop herds of lowlines used to produce beef on a larger scale. I don't know the specifics but I believe they are crossing them up to greatly moderate the size of some of the larger breeds such as charolais. Like I said, don't know all the details but it is something I have seen people talking about fairly seriously.

 

[Aero]

it's good to see that someone considering these critters actually realizes they are fad animals.

dont get too crazy with the kool aid.

That is: they produce more quality beef per acre of pasture and they have a host of other advantages,

promotional material has about 1% of the weight of real research in independent studies.

with every "advantage" comes a disadvantage. with every gain comes a loss. you can only get a set amount out of an acre of grass. no animal is more perfect/efficient/productive than another; you just measure with a stick you designed.

 

[zendog]

I am not an expert nor am I qualified to evaluate the research or the claims stemming from it but there is no shortage of research. The breed was developed by some state research program in Australia over 30 years. I would like a "real" disinterested cattleman (sorry cattleperson just sounds too strange to use) to read the research -- at least what there is on the web -- and give it a fair report. As for small stakes, that is claimed to be one of the advantages. Presumably, a two inch T-bone is little more meat than most of non-Texans can handle.

A couple of other advantages for someone like me: I am 66, next Monday, I have to "convince" my 1200 pound steers to get into my 16 foot stock trailer. I could be more convincing if they were 900 pounds. It might even keep me doing this a few more years. Second thing -- this spring was very wet here. Those big dudes really made a mud lot of my pasture while my small animals are a lot easier on the grass.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I am not an expert nor am I qualified to evaluate the research or the claims stemming from it but there is no shortage of research. The breed was developed by some state research program in Australia over 30 years. I would like a "real" disinterested cattleman (sorry cattleperson just sounds too strange to use) to read the research -- at least what there is on the web -- and give it a fair report. As for small stakes, that is claimed to be one of the advantages. Presumably, a two inch T-bone is little more meat than most of non-Texans can handle.

A couple of other advantages for someone like me: I am 66, next Monday, I have to "convince" my 1200 pound steers to get into my 16 foot stock trailer. I could be more convincing if they were 900 pounds. It might even keep me doing this a few more years. Second thing -- this spring was very wet here. Those big dudes really made a mud lot of my pasture while my small animals are a lot easier on the grass.

zendog-

I tend to agree with Frankie - "you pays your money -and you takes your chances!" However, I would disagree with you in thinking that you could "convince" your cattle to accede to your demands more easily if they were 300 pounds lighter! A 900 pound animal is a lot more capable of avoiding your 'convincing' than you may think! ...and bear this in mind with your future planning: the management of ANY livestock, even chickens, is fraught with problems and unexpected events that dictate your careful planning and organizing your work. A well-trained Border Collie could preclude your having a Heart attack AND help prevent tearing up your pastures. ...and you! And they are a lot of enjoyment, also!

I think that your thinking is correct, considering your current circumstances, but don't delude yourself into thinking that "smaller is easier!" It is a 'trade-off' at best.

DOC HARRIS

 

[Frankie]

I am not an expert nor am I qualified to evaluate the research or the claims stemming from it but there is no shortage of research. The breed was developed by some state research program in Australia over 30 years. I would like a "real" disinterested cattleman (sorry cattleperson just sounds too strange to use) to read the research -- at least what there is on the web -- and give it a fair report. As for small stakes, that is claimed to be one of the advantages. Presumably, a two inch T-bone is little more meat than most of non-Texans can handle.

A couple of other advantages for someone like me: I am 66, next Monday, I have to "convince" my 1200 pound steers to get into my 16 foot stock trailer. I could be more convincing if they were 900 pounds. It might even keep me doing this a few more years. Second thing -- this spring was very wet here. Those big dudes really made a mud lot of my pasture while my small animals are a lot easier on the grass.

I'd be interested in reading the real research. Would you provide a link, please?

You can cut the steaks whatever thickness you want. Older people tend to eat smaller portions than younger people, but restraurants are still set up to cook certain size ribeyes. That's one reason the Lowline breed doesn't fit into the commercial market place. They have the same set of muscles as normal cattle and you only get a certain number of steaks. Your link claims "More Steak". That's simply not true. If we know that's not true, why would you buy into the other claims? What sort of cattle you raise is a personal decision. Obviously you're taken with the breed and are looking for somone to affirm your decision. Look and you will eventually find. Good luck....

 

[RVF]

I am taxing my memory on this one, but the research came out in the mid to late 1980's. The jist of the program was that the research station set up a breeding trial where they took a herd of Angus cattle and bred 1/3 for large size, 1/3 were randomly bred and stayed approximately the same size and 1/3 were bred for small size. In their environment, the small line was the most productive line and was later marketed as the Lowline Angus. I assume that the claims of more beef per acre would be based on the whole production system where the higher number of lowline cows per acre and probably higher conception rate, weaning rate would result in more calves and beef being marketed as fat cattle. If I remember correctly there was no difference in efficiency of the steers in the feedlot. It would go something like this: If your farm could support 100 cows weighing 1200 pounds producing 95 calves weighing 500 lb or 47500 lbs of calf every year, the same farm would support 150 cows weighing 800 lbs. These smaller cows then produced 144 calves weighting 333 lbs or 48000 lbs of calf every year, hence the claim to more beef per acre. Please do not take my example as what the results of the trial was. I am presenting what I remember the concept to be. I would also be interested in the link to the research so I do not have to trust my memory on stuff 20-25 years old.

As others have stated, I think it will be a while before the lowline see use within the commercial beef production system since they do not fit our present finishing and packing industry. However, if you can develop a market where you sell all the calves as beef go for it. Just do not get bigger than your niche market.

 

[milkmaid]

Out of curiousity... how much of a difference is there between "Lowline Angus" and Kit Pharo's cattle?

 

[RVF]

Out of curiousity... how much of a difference is there between "Lowline Angus" and Kit Pharo's cattle?

I am not sure if Kit has used any lowline blood or not. The last time I heard him speak, a few years ago, he claimed his cattle were approximately 1200 lbs and frame 4 not 800 lbs. It may have changed since then.

 

[milkmaid]

I heard someone say (after watching the Pharo sale on TV the other day) there was at least one FS 1.6 bull that went through the ring. Isn't that about the same size as the Lowlines -- and a lot cheaper?

 

[Aero]

I heard someone say (after watching the Pharo sale on TV the other day) there was at least one FS 1.6 bull that went through the ring. Isn't that about the same size as the Lowlines -- and a lot cheaper?

nope. Lowline are generally a bit shorter than even a 0 FS i believe.

FYI: Kit sent out an email that advertises Lowline semen he is selling. If he was selling and not using it would surprise me.

 

[Aero]

http://www.pharocattle.com/Semen-Source-2008/angus.htm

look at the bottom of the page. the 2 at the bottom are said to be 45" tall as mature bulls; that is somewhere between FS 0 and FS 00.

oddly (guessing it's a mistake) similar stats on those 2.

 

[wstevenl]

I don't think most people are considering that he wants to direct market this beef... he's not interested in selling to feed lots. I'm wanting to do the same thing, all grassfed, all direct marketing. Because lowline were so expensive I'm starting with Dexters. They have great beef and milk and have been pasture raise and finished for centuries (not bred for efficiency on corn). I hope to get a small herd of registered Dexters going and then cross some with the beefier Lowlines. One thing hat is documented in a Canadian test is that dexters (and it seems any smaller framed beeves) have more inches of rib eye / 100wt. Most Dexters aren't real beefy, but they don't need corn to get finished either. Also, don't tell me how they'll never be commercial beef animals... I know that.

BTW, my first 6 Dexters are really easy to handle.

 

[Brandonm22]

I heard someone say (after watching the Pharo sale on TV the other day) there was at least one FS 1.6 bull that went through the ring. Isn't that about the same size as the Lowlines -- and a lot cheaper?

nope. Lowline are generally a bit shorter than even a 0 FS i believe.

FYI: Kit sent out an email that advertises Lowline semen he is selling. If he was selling and not using it would surprise me.

Pharo is suggesting getting big cows small in one generation by using Low Lines bulls to radically down size the heifer crop.

"Machine is an extremely stout and powerful fullblood Lowline. We sold more semen out of Machine last year than any other bull in our entire AI lineup. Some refer to Lowline Angus as miniature Angus. I don't like that term because it gives the wrong connotation. Lowline Angus are the real deal, and I believe they have a definite place in today's beef industry. We have used Machine on our 6-frame cows to produce thick, easy-fleshing, 3-frame offspring — in one generation. That saves years of time!"

http://www.pharocattle.com/Semen-Source ... tm#machine

To me if you have 100 1600 lb cows and wanted 100 1000 lb cows it would make more sense to sell your big bred cow herd in a replacement sale and turn around and put that money in frame 3 heifers. Less heterozygosity and less wait that way and you might even make a little money on the deal. Even Pharo warns though that frame 1 and smaller steers fall outside of industry parameters (no matter how efficient they are) and will be docked

"The optimum cow size at Pharo Cattle Company is a 2 to 4 frame cow that weighs 1000 to 1200
pounds. Cows that are bigger than this are not efficient or profitable enough to carry their own weight.
Cows that are smaller than this, even though they are extremely efficient, may produce calves that are
too small to work well in the existing corn-based system."

http://www.pharocattle.com/Jan_Feb_2008.pdf

 

[SF]

....I'd disagree that "serious cattlemen" are going to turn to Lowlines....

What exactly is are "serious cattlemen"? Is there a quantity of animals that one must own? Is there a certain amount of revenue one must have? A profit margin?

I live in an area surrounded by huge cattle ranches. One of my neighbors has about 10,000 head of cows. Would he be a "serious cattleman". He actually makes a living with his cows.
Another neighbor only has about 6,000 head. Is he less serious? Of course he has about a 1/2 dozen oil wells on his property, so maybe he is just a hobby rancher. I don't think he needs his cows.
Then my neigbor to the north, he only has about 800 head, but he has to make a living off of his, he doesn't have any oil or gas wells on his land.

I read and hear this phrase all the time when self appointed experts start talking about miniature cattle. I would just like to know what the definition of a "serious cattlemen" is or the other phrase is "real cattleman".

LOL

 

[novatech]

Serious cattlemen have a plan with a goal in mind. They manage to attain that goal. The goal does not have to be profit.
Others just have cows.
Numbers make no difference.

If you don,t mind I'm moving this to a new thread.

 

[backhoeboogie]

You could probably call our version of the white tail deer around here low lines. They are less than half the size of those in the northeastern states and people feed them year round. It is not feed.

People haul calves to the sale barn from little tiny black cows. I assume the buyers don't know if the calves are 4 months old or 7 months old. How do you visualize those calves ever amounting to much?

 

[chippie]

Use whatever reasoning makes you happy to justify your low-line cattle.

I have not had any problem selling halves of a beef to two different people, and in some instances quarters. The overall processing cost is less per buyer because it costs the same to kill a small beef as a 1000 lb one. When the animal is processed the buyers tell the butcher what size they want their roasts, how to cut the steaks and how to package the hamburger.

If a person wants a tiny steak, it really isn't that difficult to cut your rib eye in half and save the other piece for another meal.

Granted, we do not have a lot of cattle, however the few that do go to butcher are use to being brought in, fed in a trough and turned out. They are used to people and aren't idiots.

I was able to load our last steer in a stock trailer without a chute. Ran him into the barn, parked the trailer in the gate, put a tub of grain in the trailer and herded him in. He was not a pet. He had been handled in a sensible manner so he wasn't afraid. If you only have a few cattle, they don't have to be wild. Especially if you raised them.

To each his own.

 

[wstevenl]

I can't understand why people get so defensive and upset over smaller framed cattle. There are plenty of people that see raising meat goats as a good thing and it seems as though people are making money off of it but you want to have a bull that's only 47" tall and all of the sudden you're crazy.

Are these numbers just a lie or do people think that they are offset by the extra cost of killing more animals for the same lbs of beef?

"As a breeder, Cain said the Lowline Angus yields 40 percent more retail product per acre than the Simmental, shorthorn, Hereford or standard Angus.

"They have superior carcass traits with 30 percent larger ribeye area per hundredweight than any other breed and they have excellent marbling," Cain said. "Pounds of retail product per acre run at about 154.3 pounds instead of 110 pounds for Angus."

- from an article online.

Even if it wasn't more efficient to have smaller framed cattle I'd still do it for our small/direct market farm. I just went to a state fair in IL. and was in aww of how big and fat all the cattle were. The Heifer classes looked like a fatted steer class and a few of the bulls that were laying down looked like the needed an overhead crane to help them get up they really looked miserable. Their dewlaps were super thick with fat and they all walked awkwardly. The only animals there that looked "normal" to my eyes were the shorthorns that actually seemed proportional and healthy rather than fat. I was also disturbed by the manure... it was all 1/4 to 1/3 full of corn. What really is the point in feeding young heifers like they're in a feed lot so that someone can put them on pasture and not know how they will actually hold up?