Lost hooves, dead cattle before Merck halted Zilmax sales

[NC Liz 2]

Lost hooves, dead cattle before Merck halted Zilmax sales

Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:19pm EST
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/ ... NV20131230

Are you a BELIEVERS or a NON-BELIEVERS ?
Liz

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Are you or aren't you Sir Loin? I'm leaning "yes".

 

[TexasBred]

Notice the word "theory" was mentioned numerous times and absolutely no one in the article attributed the problem directly to Zilmax.

Keep searching Sir Loin.

 

[CottageFarm]

Are you a BELIEVERS or a NON-BELIEVERS ?
Liz

In what?? There's not enough information provided in the article on which to base an informed opinion. It doesn't even state that there were no other common factors. Nor does it even tell you how many were treated that did not loose hooves. The headline implies that there is a correlation between Zilmax and the deaths, yet that is a blatant fabrication.
I don't know if Zilmax caused the sloughing of the hooves, and based on this article, neither can anyone else.

Here's an analogy:

headline: LETTUCE UNSAFE

In the past week a hundred people in this country passed away, and they all ate a salad in the week prior to death.
Conclusion: lettuce caused deaths

 

[TexasBred]

Here's an analogy:

headline: LETTUCE UNSAFE

In the past week a hundred people in this country passed away, and they all ate a salad in the week prior to death.
Conclusion: lettuce caused deaths

I love it...only thing...I probably would die but it would be from starvation. I hate lettuce. :mrgreen:

 

[CottageFarm]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[NC Liz 2]

How about this as a possible cause?

There are three syndromes in ruminants associated with consumption of EI fescue: (1) Fescue foot--a syndrome characterized by animals with rough hair coats, tenderness of legs, loss of hooves, tail switches and ear tips and congested blood vessels leading to dry gangrene; (2) Fat necrosis--a syndrome characterized by hard masses of fat in the abdomen along the intestinal tract that can result in digestive disturbances and difficult births; and (3) Fescue toxicity (summer slump)--a syndrome characterized by reduced average daily gains, reduced conception rates, decreased milk production, intolerance to heat, failure to shed winter hair coats, elevated body temperatures, increased respiration rate and nervousness.

Could it be that those animals in distress were grass fed animals, fed on Fescue?
Liz

 

[Tim/South]

Here's an analogy:

headline: LETTUCE UNSAFE

In the past week a hundred people in this country passed away, and they all ate a salad in the week prior to death.
Conclusion: lettuce caused deaths

Yes they ate lettuce but 80% used the same salad dressing. The other 20% were going to die anyway.
Ban salad dressing.

 

[B&M Farms]

Some more studies should be done to see if Zilmax caused the hoof problems granted, but the product needs to be done away with because it creates an inferior product. Why is it some cattle people are so ready to jump on someone for questioning what the cattle industry is doing. Every industry needs checks and balances including the beef industry and everything needs to be questioned. I will not get on the anti antibiotic bandwagon because most of its here say with no evidence but this product has been proven to produce an inferior product. Why would you spend as much money as we do to produce a quality carcass and then use a product that will put more pounds of inferior meat on the scales? This has been studied and proven.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

It sure appears that you have not read many of Sir Loin's other threads.

 

[TexasBred]

Some more studies should be done to see if Zilmax caused the hoof problems granted, but the product needs to be done away with because it creates an inferior product. Why is it some cattle people are so ready to jump on someone for questioning what the cattle industry is doing. Every industry needs checks and balances including the beef industry and everything needs to be questioned. I will not get on the anti antibiotic bandwagon because most of its here say with no evidence but this product has been proven to produce an inferior product. Why would you spend as much money as we do to produce a quality carcass and then use a product that will put more pounds of inferior meat on the scales? This has been studied and proven.

Rather than just take your work for it how about showing me some of this research re: inferior meat??

 

[mwj]

Some more studies should be done to see if Zilmax caused the hoof problems granted, but the product needs to be done away with because it creates an inferior product. Why is it some cattle people are so ready to jump on someone for questioning what the cattle industry is doing. Every industry needs checks and balances including the beef industry and everything needs to be questioned. I will not get on the anti antibiotic bandwagon because most of its here say with no evidence but this product has been proven to produce an inferior product. Why would you spend as much money as we do to produce a quality carcass and then use a product that will put more pounds of inferior meat on the scales? This has been studied and proven.

Rather than just take your work for it how about showing me some of this research re: inferior meat??

You will find the ''proof'' to be more opinions. As always one persons inferior is another persons superior! :cowboy:

 

[NC Liz 2]

As for the use of Zilmax, I do not believe the cattle industry should be using any growth hormones.
To me the end does not justify the means and the use of said is doing more harm then good to the cattle industry and all cattleman's bottom line.

As for these lost hoofs and dead animals I do not believe Merck or Zilmax is the blame as there is no evidence to substantiate the claim and there is scientific evidence to prove otherwise.

Liz

 

[B&M Farms]

Some more studies should be done to see if Zilmax caused the hoof problems granted, but the product needs to be done away with because it creates an inferior product. Why is it some cattle people are so ready to jump on someone for questioning what the cattle industry is doing. Every industry needs checks and balances including the beef industry and everything needs to be questioned. I will not get on the anti antibiotic bandwagon because most of its here say with no evidence but this product has been proven to produce an inferior product. Why would you spend as much money as we do to produce a quality carcass and then use a product that will put more pounds of inferior meat on the scales? This has been studied and proven.

Rather than just take your work for it how about showing me some of this research re: inferior
meat??

animalscience.tamu.edu/files/2012/04/beef-zilmax.pdf

• How will ZilmaxTM affect the carcass of my steer? In multiple large scale feedlot trials, Zilmax adds an average of 30 lbs hot carcass weight when fed to steers the last 20 days of the feeding period. ZilmaxTM has been shown to increase rib eye area by an average 1.25 square inches, have slight reduction in backfat thickness, and reduces marbling score.

 

[Tim/South]

Checks and balances are fine. No one will ever question their need to exist. The checks just need to be fair and open minded. The article linked is very biased and slanted.

Merck's Zilmax quickly developed a loyal customer base. Its popularity spread even to the show circuit, where ranchers' children today can win prizes exceeding $100,000 for raising big-girth bovines.

How many of our children have received this kind of money?
Then:

A review of reports submitted by Merck and others to the FDA shows at least 285 cattle have died unexpectedly or been destroyed in the United States after being fed Zilmax since the drug was introduced in 2007.

The U.S. slaughters over 600,000 head per week. Until this past fall, most of these had been fed Zilmax. Of the millions processed each year, less than 50 per year were put down with health issues. With those stats we need to be feeding more Zilmax.
Lastly:

In some cases, a consulting veterinarian also cited high ambient temperature and a cement-and-rebar floor that may have exacerbated the hoof damage.

Exposed rebar is to help with traction on slick concrete. Walk cattle on it long and you are going to have toe issues. Maybe the rebar was treated with Zilmax poop?
I am not for Zilmax or any other growth hormone. That is just the old time conservative in me.
What bothers me more is that profit margins are so close that feedlots are forced to go with the latest feed technology to remain in business. The article stated a large number of feed lots going under. Why is that?
The processors and retail business are going to make a profit. The feed lot has to fight to remain open.
Pull the cattle off feed. Graze them to slaughter weight. Charge the consumer $10 a pound for meat.
Then we all go out of business.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Every industry needs checks and balances including the beef industry and everything needs to be questioned. I will not get on the anti antibiotic bandwagon because most of its here say with no evidence but this product has been proven to produce an inferior product. Why would you spend as much money as we do to produce a quality carcass and then use a product that will put more pounds of inferior meat on the scales? This has been studied and proven.

Industry does not need sensationalism. SL is king of sensationalizing. Next week or tomorrow he'll be debating someone else.

I don't use the product. Nor do I have hoof issues. Don't have a dog in this race. Tomorrow's subject may be of more personal issues. He may debate things I know as fact.

It is not about my ignorance to this subject today. It is about credibility. There are some great ones in this forum who are truly gurus. Others are subject matter experts in given areas or maybe even climates. Some are simply well rounded cattlemen with vast experiences. Others are simply idiots. Some want to point that out. You'll figure out who is who.

 

[TexasBred]

animalscience.tamu.edu/files/2012/04/beef-zilmax.pdf

• How will ZilmaxTM affect the carcass of my steer? In multiple large scale feedlot trials, Zilmax adds an average of 30 lbs hot carcass weight when fed to steers the last 20 days of the feeding period. ZilmaxTM has been shown to increase rib eye area by an average 1.25 square inches, have slight reduction in backfat thickness, and reduces marbling score.

I'm still looking for the words "inferior" in this study.

 

[mwj]

Some more studies should be done to see if Zilmax caused the hoof problems granted, but the product needs to be done away with because it creates an inferior product. Why is it some cattle people are so ready to jump on someone for questioning what the cattle industry is doing. Every industry needs checks and balances including the beef industry and everything needs to be questioned. I will not get on the anti antibiotic bandwagon because most of its here say with no evidence but this product has been proven to produce an inferior product. Why would you spend as much money as we do to produce a quality carcass and then use a product that will put more pounds of inferior meat on the scales? This has been studied and proven.

Rather than just take your work for it how about showing me some of this research re: inferior meat??

You will find the ''proof'' to be more opinions. As always one persons inferior is another persons superior! :cowboy:

I rest my case!

 

[B&M Farms]

animalscience.tamu.edu/files/2012/04/beef-zilmax.pdf

• How will ZilmaxTM affect the carcass of my steer? In multiple large scale feedlot trials, Zilmax adds an average of 30 lbs hot carcass weight when fed to steers the last 20 days of the feeding period. ZilmaxTM has been shown to increase rib eye area by an average 1.25 square inches, have slight reduction in backfat thickness, and reduces marbling score.

I'm still looking for the words "inferior" in this study.

Inferior may have been the wrong word choice but reducing marbling would seem to be counter productive to producing quality beef when most people prefer it.

 

[NC Liz 2]

Here is another one where SL questioned the connection between the hoof and E by-product.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=80340&p=964686&hilit=hoof%2C+white+line#p964686

This is from a field test he conducted on 10 test and 10 control Holstein steers raised under identical conditions.
The 10 test animals were purchased from a dairy know to feed E by-products daily and had a history of foot and respiratory problems.
The 10 control animals were purchased from a dairy known not to feed E by-product and had only a history of an occasional case of mastitis.
Neither used any steroids.

4 of the test animals died the other 6 were sold.
All 10 of the control animals were also sold.

The 10 control animals weighed 43 lbs more per animal then the remaining 6 test animals and brought $.07 per lb more then the test animals when sold.

As for Merck and Zilmax:
I and SL, and others, believe Reuters has only explored one of the possible common denominators to this issue, when in fact there are 2 common denominators to be considered.
1. the use of Zilmax
2. the use of E by-products
As it was/is well know that E by-products were being used at a rate as high as 40% in feedlots, and knowing it's passiveness, it is our opinion that E by-products is the lowest common denominator, not Zilmax.

Where all this goes from here only the good Lord knows.
So lets all pray it gets resolves real soon so as not to further damage the cattle industry.
Liz