Lost a set of twins i think

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We try for a march 1st till mid april calving but was unable to seperate the bull from the cows last spring due to rebuiling fence on one pasture so even though they all dropped calves between feb 27th and april first last year he had them bred back really fast with the first calf dropping jan 7th. This year we have the bull seperated and he will go back in with the cows may 1st. Some of the cows that already dropped calves are starting to cycle already. Saw the first two cows that dropped with signs of cycling these past few days as well as my three hefiers i retained but the are only 11 months old and about 600 pounds right now.
 
I appreciate your thoughts. But we may still rib ya a little!
I really appreciate your expounding on this particular case, as far as a necropsy, but most of us smaller operators simply don't have the time or know how to perform such a task. Some of us don't even care. The fact they were twins always complicates things.

Do you have lots of experience with twin births and said defects? Are defects common in twins?
My main necropsy experience was with wild grazing animals, especially white-tailed deer, our main study animal, so yes I have had lots of experience with twin births, just not in cattle. I did necropsy several beef calves that had externally observable birth defects including one that died of a set of twins. The sibling lived. All of the 7 beef calves I necropsied had an underbite and all but one had been diagnosed with Weak Calf Syndrome by a veterinarian. I am a biologist, not a vet. All the beef calves I necropsied also had those internal issues I stated above. According to the data on Weak Calf Syndrome, 3 of every 100 calves born in the U.S. each year die of WCS. That is around a million dead calves that can't be sold by the livestock owner, which is why I am trying to help you. That is close to a million cows that are fed for a year, with no return to the livestock owner - seems to me to be a huge, likely preventable waste. Since every calf that I examined that had WCS also had a fairly severe underbite, an underbite might indicate disrupted mineral uptake by the calf as a fetus, and that likely contributes to its mortality soon after birth. Many newborn animals have underbite (overbite is far less prevalent), but do not have the mortality causing internal birth defects, so they live their life unable to bite off foliage efficiently. That also costs the livestock owners money when the animals are sold. If all livestock owners checked the bite on their newborn cattle, equines, sheep, goats and camelids, especially llamas and reported the underbites to their County Extension Agent, maybe steps would be taken to find what is causing this significant and likely unnecessary loss. Also, thank you very much, Travir.
 
I appreciate your thoughts. But we may still rib ya a little!
I really appreciate your expounding on this particular case, as far as a necropsy, but most of us smaller operators simply don't have the time or know how to perform such a task. Some of us don't even care. The fact they were twins always complicates things.

Do you have lots of experience with twin births and said defects? Are defects common in twins?
I can take joking around and after 25 years of some people being really nasty, calling me a liar, just a woman, etc. I have really thick skin. To be fair, only one person on CattleToday was especially unkind.
 
My main necropsy experience was with wild grazing animals, especially white-tailed deer, our main study animal, so yes I have had lots of experience with twin births, just not in cattle. I did necropsy several beef calves that had externally observable birth defects including one that died of a set of twins. The sibling lived. All of the 7 beef calves I necropsied had an underbite and all but one had been diagnosed with Weak Calf Syndrome by a veterinarian. I am a biologist, not a vet. All the beef calves I necropsied also had those internal issues I stated above. According to the data on Weak Calf Syndrome, 3 of every 100 calves born in the U.S. each year die of WCS. That is around a million dead calves that can't be sold by the livestock owner, which is why I am trying to help you. That is close to a million cows that are fed for a year, with no return to the livestock owner - seems to me to be a huge, likely preventable waste. Since every calf that I examined that had WCS also had a fairly severe underbite, an underbite might indicate disrupted mineral uptake by the calf as a fetus, and that likely contributes to its mortality soon after birth. Many newborn animals have underbite (overbite is far less prevalent), but do not have the mortality causing internal birth defects, so they live their life unable to bite off foliage efficiently. That also costs the livestock owners money when the animals are sold. If all livestock owners checked the bite on their newborn cattle, equines, sheep, goats and camelids, especially llamas and reported the underbites to their County Extension Agent, maybe steps would be taken to find what is causing this significant and likely unnecessary loss. Also, thank you very much, Travir.
I do find your studies interesting.
I'm one that likes to maximize. Run at an efficient level. At the same time I've been known to keep a first calf heifer that couldn't spit out a first calf too! So there goes the efficient part. 😆
 
Maybe this will help. This is what the underbite looked like on one of the beef calves I necropsied several years ago that was diagnosed with WCS. It as you can see also had crooked lower incisors.
 

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3000 years of domesticating and now we're worried about getting our cows in synch with nature?
I have considered the source of that comment and found it wanting for logic.
The time preset for gestation was allotted by the Word and no amount of domesticating is going to change that ordinance.
Your comment would imply that if one kept planting seeds from cutoff trees the result would be short trees after a few hundred years!
I do know for the record that you have shelter available for your new born calves so if there is no worry why the shelter?
I also know how many of your winter born calves are born with a winter coat of hair, if you are man enough to admit it!
Even thus I would ask for blessings on your works of good will.
 
I have considered the source of that comment and found it wanting for logic.
The time preset for gestation was allotted by the Word and no amount of domesticating is going to change that ordinance.
Your comment would imply that if one kept planting seeds from cutoff trees the result would be short trees after a few hundred years!
I do know for the record that you have shelter available for your new born calves so if there is no worry why the shelter?
I also know how many of your winter born calves are born with a winter coat of hair, if you are man enough to admit it!
Even thus I would ask for blessings on your works of good will.

"Mr. Vanross, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
 
"Mr. Vanross, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
I think it's nice that the nurses let him use the internet.
 
Well..., the common starlings must be getting ready to migrate. It would seem they are gathering in one place.
As usual they will make a lot of noise and foul up the landscape then fly off with no sense of purpose other than
incessant chatter and unending vocal defecation for which they are noted.
Their survival is insured by their mobility and worthlessness.
This too, shall pass. may have originated with them in mind.
 
Well..., the common starlings must be getting ready to migrate. It would seem they are gathering in one place.
As usual they will make a lot of noise and foul up the landscape then fly off with no sense of purpose other than
incessant chatter and unending vocal defecation for which they are noted.
Their survival is insured by their mobility and worthlessness.
This too, shall pass. may have originated with them in mind.
 

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U guys are great!
But ya need more projects. I got a couple calves that got dirty butts. Wanna come help?
20220220_175731.jpg
You'll have to excuse me, I've gotta go try n get a bottle in a highland cross heifer calf that I picked up for @Adam Freeman
He said no, but maybe he will change his mind.....
 
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
U guys are great!
But ya need more projects. I got a couple calves that got dirty butts. Wanna come help?
View attachment 13528
You'll have to excuse me, I've gotta go try n get a bottle in a highland cross heifer calf that I picked up for @Adam Freeman
He said no, but maybe he will change his mind.....
No were good. Have 3 more starting to get close to birthing.
 
I appreciate your thoughts. But we may still rib ya a little!
I really appreciate your expounding on this particular case, as far as a necropsy, but most of us smaller operators simply don't have the time or know how to perform such a task. Some of us don't even care. The fact they were twins always complicates things.

Do you have lots of experience with twin births and said defects? Are defects common in twins?
I forgot to say that if you have a sharp knife, it only takes a few minutes to look at the heart and lungs. Anyone can tell if the right ventricle of the heart looks extra large and if the lungs are very bumpy rather than being smooth or have white areas, especially fairly large ones, that the calf has quite severe damage to the lungs. With the lung issue especially, the newborn usually doesn't live very long. They can live for one to several years with the enlarged right heart ventricle, but usually don't do as well as animals with normal hearts. I have shown high school students how to look for the underdeveloped facial bones and the heart and lung issues and they did just fine.
 

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