Looking for cows on Lease to own

[BIZIN]

Hey everybody, if you know of anyone in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta or even BC, heck anywhere close to Saskatchewan, who would be interested in doing a lease to own on some Purebred or commercial horned hereford cows, or angus X horned hereford cows, or on some welsh black cows, let me know. Have enough grass and feed for 600 more cows. My fiance and I just bought a house and the bank is being difficult and wont lend us anymore to buy some cows to utilize this extra grass we got. Dad's been running yearlings on it, but we want to get more mother cows. Cougars chased the yearlings through the fence at the beginning of the summer and we are still rounding em up in groups of 2-6. Found some 45 miles South of the pasture. So I'm done with yearlings, I dont think mama cows woulda been that hard to find or travel that far. PM me if you know of anyone intersted in a Lease to own.

 

[Brute 23]

Maybe you should take the hint that you can't afford cattle. I'll take three cows I can pay cash for over 300 I have to get a loan on any day.

Plus, if I had the cattle to sell.... between cougars and your finances.... it sounds like there is a high probability I won't get my money and or cattle back if the deal goes bad. Do people really sign up for this stuff? :???:

 

[Isomade]

Maybe you should take the hint that you can't afford cattle. I'll take three cows I can pay cash for over 300 I have to get a loan on any day.

Plus, if I had the cattle to sell.... between cougars and your finances.... it sounds like there is a high probability I won't get my money and or cattle back if the deal goes bad. Do people really sign up for this stuff? :???:

So....can he mark you off his list of potential lessors? :lol:

 

[Brute 23]

Only way I'm losing money to a cougar is if its the two legged kind. :cowboy:

 

[BIZIN]

Oh I can afford cattle Brute. And I can make money on em enough to pay for the land and pay out someone on a lease, but trying to make the bank understand that is difficult. And ya, alot of people do sign up for this stuff, people with a tax problem who cant take all the money for the cows in one year and would like to spread it out. And I would rather take 1000 cows that are financed over 5 years and paid for in 5 years then take your 3 cows that might be paid for cash. Cause when it comes down to it, even if I finance my cows and take 5 years to pay for them, even with interest, I will be making more money than you will off your 3 over their whole lifetime!

 

[TexasBred]

Oh I can afford cattle Brute. And I can make money on em enough to pay for the land and pay out someone on a lease, but trying to make the bank understand that is difficult. And ya, alot of people do sign up for this stuff, people with a tax problem who cant take all the money for the cows in one year and would like to spread it out. And I would rather take 1000 cows that are financed over 5 years and paid for in 5 years then take your 3 cows that might be paid for cash. Cause when it comes down to it, even if I finance my cows and take 5 years to pay for them, even with interest, I will be making more money than you will off your 3 over their whole lifetime!

Nothing wrong with financing cattle or even leasing/purchase. Works very well for many people both lessee and lessor and has some tax advantages. I've leased any cattle but I'd probably make sure I used an attorney familar with such things to draw up the lease that would cover both parties and leave nothing to chance. I've know a number of people who leased dairy cattle and it worked well for them but every situation is different. Best Wishes.

 

[Farmer123]

Brute you sound like you know nothing about buying and selling cattle. Most farmers now a days are part of an association to buy cows because not many farmers have that kind of cash on hand to build the type of herd they want. And banks are more difficult with farmers and cattle because its a higher risk nothing to do with Bizin isnt good at what he does or doesnt have the money to pay it back. Banks look at the numbers different.

 

[Brute 23]

Obviosly I don't understand. How would it benefit a person on taxes to spread the income out over multiple years? How do you guarantee you can pay them back?

 

[TexasBred]

Obviosly I don't understand. How would it benefit a person on taxes to spread the income out over multiple years? How do you guarantee you can pay them back?

Just like qualifying for any other loan. Income, past payment history, down payment.... in short it's called "qualifying". Apparently in this case the bank either does not think he qualifies OR they are making excuses not to make the loan under any circumstances. Owner financing or leasing is always a viable alternative. Sometimes you pay a bit higher interest rate to a lender willing to take a bit more risk. You're in the oil and gas business....surely you understand risk -vs- reward.

 

[Brute 23]

Ya I do. Before I start asking people for some thing I always think... how will this benefit them? Its only a good deal if every one benefits. From the perspective that if I have the cattle there is no way in hell I would do this because there is no way for me to collect from this guy. There is ZERO benefit for me... or any one... to do this deal. I would take a lower amount for the cattle if some one paid cash as opposed to leasing (lending) for a higher amount because there is ZERO risk in cash. In owner financing land other real estate atleast there is an asset you can take back. When a cougar eats a cow, half the herd freezes to death, or just run off 45+ miles never to be found... what do I have?

Ever wonder why O&G companies drill a bunch of wells then sell them off? Because cash is king... a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush... money in the bank, is better than oil in the tank. They are willing to take a lower cash amount up front than ride it out for the POTENTIAL of more money.

I know a quite a few wealthy people.... never have I heard any of them say the want to spread out their income. They take the cash and move on to the next deal.

You did get it right. The banks realize cattle are a high risk... low return business. Two things that don't go together in business. So unless this guy knows how to breed a cow that has 5 calves a year... I don't blame them.

 

[Gators Rule]

I know a quite a few wealthy people.... never have I heard any of them say the want to spread out their income. They take the cash and move on to the next deal.

This isn't necessarily a bad deal for the lessor! In fact, those very same "wealthy people" run into years where it IS advantageous to spread money over several years...such as when they are about to cross over into a higher tax bracket.

One, they can earn on the sale/lease of the cattle.
Two, they can earn additional money on the interest. What are they earning by keeping the money in a bank? Next to 0.
Three, they have the potential to earn more outright cash by selling the cattle at a little higher price than the going sale barn price.

 

[Brute 23]

Nobody actually tries to stay in a lower tax bracket. That is stuff you hear in the movies or from poor people. That is like when some one says... They (I) do it for a tax wright off. You spent $5,000 save from paying 20-30% on $5,000? :???:

Instead of trying to make money from interest wouldnt you take the cash, go reinvest it and do another cash deal... and another cash deal... and another cash deal. How many cash deals could you do while you were waiting for this one guy to finally get you paid off?

 

[JSCATTLE]

Sorry but staying in a lower tax bracket is a priority for me .. running a construction company . Id rather eat beans and rice my whole life instead of giving the government my money to spread around to people who won't work... As far as borrowing money to buy cattle I do it .. and have had good luck .. intrest is usually around 5% and I buy cows I can pay off with a couple calf crops ... If it takes me 3 or 4,years to pay for them even factoring what it cost to care for a cow I still make more than what my money would bring in a savings or cd ... I would gladly spend 5000 dollars to keep from giving the government 500 dollars

 

[randiliana]

Have you tried a feeder/breeder co-op or going through one of the various cattle finance programs that are out there? 15 years ago we were in your same position. The Feeder/Breeder co-ops are (supposedly) set up for people who can't get the loan through the bank. If you want more info, PM me.

 

[TexasBred]

I know a quite a few wealthy people.... never have I heard any of them say the want to spread out their income. They take the cash and move on to the next deal.

Obviously they inherited their money as they wouldn't accumulate much doing it your way. Deferred income is one of the best ways to lower taxes while retaining earnings. A cow note is just as secured as a real estate note. Cows die....real estate deteriorates without constant upkeep (additional cash investment). I know a lot of banks that are very agriculture based and loan tremendous amounts of money on cattle as well a"unplanted" crops. Most farmers operate on borrowed money. Takes more than most have laying around in the bank to put in 20,000 acres of grain. Anyway, back to the original question, yes it can be done...you can make money at if you know what you're doing and it is done fairly often. Again, best wishes.

 

[BIZIN]

Thanks guys for explaining everything to Brute. Randiliana, I am a member of a feeder co-op, one of our members decided to triple finance the cattle through 2 other financing deals including Stockman's assistance and Unifeed finance and decided to ship the cattle and not pay anyone and claim they were loaded on unmarked trucks and sent to an unknown buyer with no manifests and didnt pay back any of the money. Our association is currently in court with them to get money back and our association is frozen, otherwise I wouldnt have a need to look for a lease to own.

I would go to a lawyer who knew what he was doing, probably the same lawyer who drew up our lease to own deal on some land we are working a deal on for a lease to own. There are alot of guys doing lease to own up here and I know I could get cows from Gary Jones if I wanted, but I want horned hereford cows, or welsh blacks. Even angus hereford x cows if I have too, but I am sick of dad buying cows just to get the numbers up and then we end up culling all of them out over 5-10 years and there is no genetics going back to them. They dont fit into our program and I want cows that do.

 

[randiliana]

Yeah, that can be the problem with the Feeder Co-op. We haven't had that problem down here thank goodness....

Good luck finding the cows. Straightbred Herefords are kinda hard to find, so are Welsh Black. You might have a chance with the baldies though. If I knew of any I would send them your way.

 

[Brute 23]

In this whole deal no one has answered the question.

I know a quite a few wealthy people.... never have I heard any of them say the want to spread out their income. They take the cash and move on to the next deal.

Obviously they inherited their money as they wouldn't accumulate much doing it your way. Deferred income is one of the best ways to lower taxes while retaining earnings. A cow note is just as secured as a real estate note. Cows die....real estate deteriorates without constant upkeep (additional cash investment). I know a lot of banks that are very agriculture based and loan tremendous amounts of money on cattle as well a"unplanted" crops. Most farmers operate on borrowed money. Takes more than most have laying around in the bank to put in 20,000 acres of grain. Anyway, back to the original question, yes it can be done...you can make money at if you know what you're doing and it is done fairly often. Again, best wishes.

Exact opposite. The were mostly, with the exception of a few, middle class and have grown their wealth over the years.... one deal after another. I appreciate you giving me credit for the idea but its already in use by them... and the people they they learned it from... and the people they learned it from.... Thankfully they are teaching it to me.

 

[Brute 23]

I would gladly spend 5000 dollars to keep from giving the government 500 dollars

Your right. Send me what ever you want... $5, 10, 15, 50K... what ever will help you stay in that lower tax bracket. You can 1099 me for it so you won't have to pay taxes on that money.... I will pay all the taxes on it for you. Win... Win

 

[JSCATTLE]

I would gladly spend 5000 dollars to keep from giving the government 500 dollars

Your right. Send me what ever you want... $5, 10, 15, 50K... what ever will help you stay in that lower tax bracket. You can 1099 me for it so you won't have to pay taxes on that money.... I will pay all the taxes on it for you. Win... Win

Or I could stay home work less and hang out on the cattle boards all day ... Haha