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looking for baler and disc mower

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brownmule

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i have bought hay for many yrs what i have pd i could of have a barn full of equipment so i looking for advice of what would work for us. we have small tractors hubbys is a 45 or 46 hp kabota has wet line hook ups in back. a few yrs a go i sent it off and got a loader bucket installed. for us it doubled the value. so handy.. i have a ck20 kioti { yeah i know its a 'baby tractor"} but i love it.i use it a lot brush hogging i can get in to small places {between trees that doug's cant w/o barking up trees}
any way looking for something for the kabota . a disc mower & baler 4x4 bales work ok for us i have cabbaged up some hay field besides ours they are level river bottom fields [ nice flat } for wv lol
i have a good farmer friend who will help us has did hay for many yrs if i dont find a baler we can square it. but round bales are so much easier. he has a disc mower. but it we have another one i would feel better about the whole process .
whats the differences between chain driven and belt driven? [hope i worded that right} do research now . so i know what im looking at later.
i know you guys have been doing this for a good while and you all have serious equpt. {big tractors} but maybe you could give some insight on what i might need. big thanks Rose,i
if you dont ask you dont know!
 

DiamondSCattleCo

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I won't comment on disc mowers, as all I'm familiar with are discbines, which have considerably higher HP requirements than you can handle with your current equipment.

On the baler front, there are some options in a 4x4 or 4x5 baler. M&W makes a good little 4x4 soft core baler, while both NH and Hesston (marketted under Massey) make hard core balers in the 4x4 range. Hard core balers generally require less HP.

As for chain or belt, thats not really the drive system, but rather the bale forming system. Chain balers have a pair of chains on either side of the chamber, with cross bars between them. These bars rotate around the chamber and form the bale. The M&W I suggested is a chain baler, with an enclosed chamber. Almost no leaf loss with these balers. Belt balers are far more common, and use belts rotating around the chamber to compress and form the bale. There will be some leaf loss between the belts, especially on very dry hay. However, a belt hard core baler can be run at higher speeds, so you'll minimize the leaf loss off the pickup by running faster. Its six of one, half a dozen of the other which is better. While I liked my M&Ws that I had, I wouldn't go back to them for serious haying. With my NH balers, I can run 10 or 11 mph, whereas the M&Ws (and other soft cores) are limited pretty much to 6 or 7 mph.

Rod
 

lavacarancher

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DiamondS is right on the money with his description of the two baler types. Personally, I perfer the belt baler over the chain baler. I've had both, well, still have both - haven't sold the chain baler yet. I never could get my old NH chain baler to make a tight bale. But it was pretty depenable at my level at less than 500 bales/year.

As far a HP requirements you can get a baler that can be pulled with a 45-50HP tractor. It will probably be a Vermeer Rebel in a 4X4 size. I really don't know about the Hestons, M&W, or any of the small balers from JD or even NH. I've never baled with a small round baler.

I do have a square baler that I pull with a Ford 3000 diesel. I believe the HP rating of the tractor is in the 40-45hp range. It handles the square baler just fine. I also used to pull a PZ drum mower with the Ford and it handled it OK.
 

fitz

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I'm by no means an expert. So, before anyone jumps, anything I say is only a suggestion and offered only for consideration. If the h.p. on your Kubota is 45, ( I assume/ hope PTO) I would look for the smallest round baler I could find. You're on track with the 4X4 size baler.The Hesston or a spin off would would be a good place to start. You might look into a used Drum Mower for the same tractor. You could probably buy one for around the same price of a sickle bar mower. I don't know about parts if/when it breaks down. The lay of your land will have a large impact on choice also. You noted it was level which will be a big help. If that's the case your smaller tractor should handle your raking. We don't have any of that (level land) here. Good luck.

fitz
 

rusty

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Rose,
When I first started looking for equipment to get back in cattle I kept my eye on traders guide moutain trader and other classifieds.Find what things are selling for if looking at used equip one good web site is tractor house to do price comparison
What part of WV are you from? Was going to suggest the auction coming up but saw you had already posted there.Local dealer for me has a GMD 500 Kuhn for $4000. also they have a small rotary drum mower for sale don't know price for it.
 

Angus Cowman

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I like the NN balers and I have ran several different balers from JD,M&W,vermeer and NH
Nh did make a 4x4 baler under their name not Massey as Diamond S said
the # on them are 630,634,638 and BR 730A

the 630 is a mid 90s model and the others are newer than that
 

DiamondSCattleCo

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Angus Cowman":17b95mv9 said:
Nh did make a 4x4 baler under their name not Massey as Diamond S said

Actually, I meant Hesston markets under the Massey name, but I can see how you would have mistaken it. Case and NH are now the same critters.

Rod
 

S&S Farms

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There is a difference between hesston and massey. They are built in the same plant but they do have different standards for being built. hesston uses thicker metal than the massey. They also cost more.

Jeff
 

Angus Cowman

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DiamondSCattleCo":3hh0znmy said:
Angus Cowman":3hh0znmy said:
Nh did make a 4x4 baler under their name not Massey as Diamond S said

Actually, I meant Hesston markets under the Massey name, but I can see how you would have mistaken it. Case and NH are now the same critters.

Rod
I see that Now Rod and yes Case IH is the same as NH
 

DiamondSCattleCo

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S&S Farms":b8ybc7zx said:
There is a difference between hesston and massey. They are built in the same plant but they do have different standards for being built. hesston uses thicker metal than the massey. They also cost more.

Depends on what you're talking about Jeff. The windrowers are completely different, with Hesston using a completely different body and frame. Moot point, since you can't buy a Hesston windrower anymore. Actually, Hesston haying equipment has ceased to be a "brand" available in Canada (actually, I believe its went North America wide now). They are now available as Massey by Hesston, Agco by Hesston, or Cat Challenger.

As far as mower conditioners and balers, your statement is not true. They are EXACTLY the same machine. I'm a parts man at a Massey dealership, and the Hesston and Massey part numbers for ALL of them are exactly the same, every last bearing, every last chunk of sheet metal. The Cat guys tried pulling the same BS to sell more Challenger stuff, until I pulled up part numbers and they were exactly the same. Heck, every now and again we end up with the occasional part coming in thats Cat yellow.

I see the occasional NH guy trying to convince others that the Case equipment is built to a lower standard. Again, absolutely not true. Case/NH balers are completely identical, right down to the part numbers used. That can be verified online through the CNH parts website. The only difference is that Case balers aren't available with the low end monitor, or the smaller tires. That, and they're substantially less expensive.

Rod
 

rusty

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Had bearing go out in fella disc mower ,dealer told friend didn't sell fella parts so I gave numbers off bearing over phone he ask if it was a vicon I said sure was Exact same bearing.Short story don't tell what brand just give numbers most are the same.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

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rusty":2oecwxv1 said:
Had bearing go out in fella disc mower ,dealer told friend didn't sell fella parts so I gave numbers off bearing over phone he ask if it was a vicon I said sure was Exact same bearing.Short story don't tell what brand just give numbers most are the same.

Its important to note that NO manufacturer, whether it be Agco, Dear Johnnie, Case/NH, or, in Rusty's example, Vicon have their own bearing or belt plant. Every single bearing used by equipment manufacturers has been built by someone else like SKF, NTN, Goodyear, or Dayco. And there aren't as many "specialized" parts being used anymore. PTO shafts, hitch parts, wheel hubs, etc etc are often interchangeable between breeds. You'll be able to tell a specialized part manufactured for a specific purpose, as it likely won't have a manfacturer part number stamped anywhere on it. Thats not a hard and fast rule though, as some manufacturers will stamp their part number on it, but it will be "restricted" and not available anywhere else. In the case of AgCo belts, special belts built to a certain tolerance, size or material will have a big old "SPECIAL" stamped right on the belt. This likely means they are a Kevlar blended belt, however it could mean an off-beat size too.

It is important to note that not all bearings are created equal though, nor are the prices the same. A really good example are the hex shaft bearings used on New Idea/Hesston/Case lower rollers on the older soft core balers (Hesston 565, New Idea 4865, Case/IH 8480). Those bearings were built by SKF for New Idea, who then sold them to Case and Hesston. So the bearing through an AgCo dealership will cost you 28 bucks, through a Case dealer they'll be 48 bucks, and through your local NAPA store, they'll be over 50 bucks. Exact same bearing, right down to the SKF part number stamped on the race, but completely different pricing depending on licensing. That won't always be the case though. An SKF 6203-2RS is available downtown at NAPA for about 12 bucks, whereas the Massey equivalent part number 341745m91 (PN is an example, don't recall the actual AgCo number) is 22 bucks. When you pull the bearing out, its got the SKF 6203-2RS stamped on the inner race. Some dealers will try and BS you and say their parts are built to a higher standard, but don't listen to them: An SKF 6203-2RS is an SKF 6203-2RS, no matter where its used.

Having said that, there will be cheaper versions of a 6203-2RS bearing being built elsewhere in the world under a different manufacturer like RKF. So pay attention to what you're putting in. Cheaper bearings will use fewer, larger balls with thinner races and lower quality/less grease. Their rubber seals will likely be more brittle or not to proper tolerance. So if you're having bearing issues with a machine, there may not be anything wrong with the machine per se, but rather the bearing may be of poor construction. Step up to a good manufacturer like SKF or NTN. I'm not aware of any of the large manufacturers that use low end bearing stock, but watch the off-breed stuff.

Rod
 
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brownmule

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thanks everyone for in put, thats what i was looking for. i do use my smaller tractor to rake /wind row. i have a small sunflower rake{im sure thats not the correct name} that i do just fine with. i was suprized that it didnt push me. which helps get the process go a little faster.
we are just getting started farming on our own, so there fore after buy land and all the rock walls i have hit over the yrs { crazy neighbor and all} im trying to gather equipt as i can. the tractors were biggies LOL
i have read about the vermeer's have they been making them very long?
were in central wv,about 40 miles from summersville in webster county

we have some good size hill here, but the hay feild i have found is a river valley pretty flat. compared to some of the hay feild i have helped in. some of them scare the begebers out of me. just driving the truck lol thats why i have a farmer friend helping us. some of the places he bales this will be a vacation for him .
question: is a soft core bale lighter than a hard core. is one tighter than the other as in shedding water? i bought hay from 2 different ppl last fall one was belt the other must of been chain{but not sure] it was a Kuhn i think. was all enclosed his bales were tighter and kept way better. i figured he had been doing it longer and could just roll them tighter . big thanks again for your advice... Rose
 

rusty

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Check with Nettles Equip they are off I-79 exit 46.They usually have some used hay equip for sale.
 

Fred Belknap

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Rose I have a Hesston 530 that makes a 500 to 600 lb bale. It would work with the 45 hp tractor on level land. I'm not sure about a rotary mower, you might be better off with a sickle bar mower like a NH 451. I have a 7' Vicon that weigh around 900 lbs and that might be a little heavy on your three point hitch. It is more the weight of the tractor than the hp. Good luck.
Fred
 
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brownmule

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thanks Fred, the mower wt would be on the 3 point hitch,with the loader bucket/bale spear arms[im sure they r called something else} the ft is a little heavy anyway. so im guessing that would help to balance it out? when carring bales to the field we usually carry one on the back too just too save time and for balance. the ag guy said that we could use a 7 ft mower but that seems a little big. do they make a 6 ft mower? id rather take another pass and get more yrs out of our tractor as to work it like a "rented mule" or take a chance for something breaking. does mower run off the PTO and wet lines in back or just PTO?
i know the old sickle bars just hook up to PTO Rose
 

dun

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The problem with moving around with a disc or drum mower in the raised position is that it really affects the center of balance. There is a lot of weight hanging off the back but there is also the "mast" which is the mower itself sticking up and affects the side to side balance.
 

Fred Belknap

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brownmule":3p8j2knw said:
thanks Fred, the mower wt would be on the 3 point hitch,with the loader bucket/bale spear arms[im sure they r called something else} the ft is a little heavy anyway. so im guessing that would help to balance it out? when carring bales to the field we usually carry one on the back too just too save time and for balance. the ag guy said that we could use a 7 ft mower but that seems a little big. do they make a 6 ft mower? id rather take another pass and get more yrs out of our tractor as to work it like a "rented mule" or take a chance for something breaking. does mower run off the PTO and wet lines in back or just PTO?
i know the old sickle bars just hook up to PTO Rose

The mower itself will generally run off the PTO and the hydraulic are used to lift the mower bar. I think they come in smaller size but don't know for sure. Rotary mowers are easier to use as they don't have the tendency to clog up like a sickle bar mower does.
 

chh

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Here is a link to the Massey web site on balers, you can look at the disc mowers off of the same link. You can see from the specs that you have enough hp to meet the minimum requirments on the 1700 series models. I would suggest that you check out the minimum recommended tractor weight though. Being pushed downhill by a baler is not much fun. Even if you are not looking for a new baler it will still give you an idea on the tractor requirements.

http://www.masseyferguson.com/agco/MF/N ... 1700RB.htm
 

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