Longhorn-Angus cross

[Busterz]

Has anyone done a longhorn angus cross (or longhorn and any other "beef" cross)? I've been contemplating it for a while.

Just wondering if anyone has any experiences they would share or pictures of what the calves look like?

 

[1982vett]

Neighbors wife has some longhorns. He runs and angus bull on them which pretty much puts a black hide on them. Some will come with a lot of white. Seems to work pretty good for him.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

There is a few people around here using char. bulls on longhorn cows they do pretty good.

 

[BC]

Charolais will come closer to covering up the spots and give a calf with a little more muscle to cheat the order buyer.

 

[Third Row]

Longhorn crosses cheating the order buyers pretty much demolished the spotted Simmental. Longhorn crosses grow okay until weaning when they seem to remember their ancestry.

Those calves will come out easy but they don't have the durability of a Correiente in the rodeo ring or the growth of a poor quality Angus in the sale ring.

 

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

Had a Charolais bull on a Longhorn herd a few years ago, the calfs for the most part got the muscle of the bull and put on good weight. The trouble was you never knew if they would be polled or not or what color or combination of colors. Sold all the Longhorns due to the drought in 06,one escaped getting loaded and has since given me a solid black polled heifer calf out of my Angus bull.You would have a hard time telling if this heifer is pure Angus or not.Will the next calf from this Longhorn/Angus breeding be the same results,guess I'll wait and see. But if so she can stay. She's a good momma .

 

[Busterz]

What kind of different handling equipment/facilities would you need to handle longhorn cows? I assume a different chute but what else?

How common are goring injuries?

 

[andybob]

I have wanted to try a Tuli/Longhorn cross as an F1 female for really severe parasite infested areas in the south, a red Tuli should give a more consistent colour and the polled F1 would make them more acceptable for most commercial ranchers, any popular terminal bull could then be used to suit the local market.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

What kind of different handling equipment/facilities would you need to handle longhorn cows? I assume a different chute but what else?

How common are goring injuries?

Traditional squeeze units and head gates don't work well at all with Longhorns. One needs to use the "Medina Hinge" concept: Two heavy duty gates. Latch one then herd the Longhorn to it then close and latch the second one. You can see some photos of our setup on our website in one of our photo galleries.

Goring injuries: Essentially non-existent. Breeders turn a rare nut case into hamburger and don't breed them. They know exactly where their horns are and can manage them through the smallest places when they want to. Longhorn breeders do not breed "wild rodeo bulls" as a rule...those tend to be corriente and/or very high dollar bulls bred FOR their mean attitude...a very specialized market.

It is also very rare for one longhorn to injure one of their pasture mates. They are individuals but can work as a team (aka chasing predators, baby-sitting young calves, etc.).

About the only time you need to watch your back (with a known herd) is to not get between a mama and her un-weaned calf. You also don't want to get between a bull and a cow in heat. It goes without saying that you don't want 2 service age bulls in the same pasture with females...a wreck waiting to happen. As a rule, responsible breeders cull out any rare problem attitude Longhorns. If you treat them with respect and courtesy, they will treat you with respect and courtesy.

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

For those interested in pictures, the following represent a typical "lineback" color pattern that we see in our crosses. Interestingly enough, the white pattern is even manifested in our longhorn mothers that are solid in color. Once again, my apologies to the Pinzgaur breeders that have a hard time selling across the scales at the local auctions. Most buyers will assume the pinzgaur pattern is due to longhorn influence.

The crosses will typically bring 80 cents per pound while our Brangus calves will bring $1.20 per pound for a 500 lb calf. In other words, solid black brings $200 more per calf.


Longhorn with 1 week old Longhorn/Angus cross calves dated 3/12/08

The Angus (Angus +) sire dated Fall '07

 

[Scotty]

Yes. That is what I called my polled longhorns. You can breed te horns off in one genration but the spots will always be there. These were some of the first cattle I ( did not want to) bred when my wife and I first got married. We soon whent Reg. Angus only. Profit soon followed. Sorry Bill.

 

[stocky]

Busterz, I have about 40 longhorns and breed them to a charolais bull. You get a well muscled calf that will be yellow most of the time and will sell very well right off the cow. The longhorn eats less feed than the larger breeds and will range as far as needed for even poor pasture.
Out of an angus bull, there will be over half the calves that will have a longer face and lighter bones and shows longhorn features, even though most will be solid black. 14 months ago, I bought a set of heavy springer 3-4 year old longhorns bred to a charolais bull for 500 dollars each. I sold their calves right off the cow for an average of 725 dollars each (700 lbs x 1.04). They now have a real nice set of 2 month old yellow calves. At the same time, I bought a real nice set of black springers for 1100 each and sold their calves for 500 each (400lbs x 1.25, I sold them young off the heifers). How long will it take for the blacks to make money compared to the longhorns?
Do yourself a huge favor and dehorn those longhorns. You dont need the expense of seperate handling facilities. You dont need the aggravation of dealing with those horns. The only reason to keep the horns is if you personally like them, in that case, you have to deal with them.
I strongly disagree with the folks who talk about "fooling" the order buyers. Any order buyer who knows his cattle is not fooled by the color of a 600-700 lb calf. He can tell if the calf is a pinzgauer or a longhorn. He can tell if the calf is charlois/longhorn or charlois/angus or limo. People do not go solely on color when they are figuring the possible breed combinations. They do not pay what they pay because they are fooled, they pay it because it is the price they can pay and make money on the calf. Every one of the calves that I sold for 725 dollars each showed some longhorn in their body. Alot of people are disappointed in the price their calves bring because they seem to them one way, an order buyer may see them a different way.
Longhorns are very easy keepers and will eat most anything. Good luck with your decisions.

 

[BC]

I strongly disagree with the folks who talk about "fooling" the order buyers. Any order buyer who knows his cattle is not fooled by the color of a 600-700 lb calf. He can tell if the calf is a pinzgauer or a longhorn. He can tell if the calf is charlois/longhorn or charlois/angus or limo. People do not go solely on color when they are figuring the possible breed combinations. They do not pay what they pay because they are fooled, they pay it because it is the price they can pay and make money on the calf. Every one of the calves that I sold for 725 dollars each showed some longhorn in their body. Alot of people are disappointed in the price their calves bring because they seem to them one way, an order buyer may see them a different way.quote]

That is true on big heavy calves showing the Longhorn influence, but when you are buying 300 to 400 lb calves, their heritage has not expressed itself. Especially if they are solid colored.

 

[stocky]

BC, very good point about the younger calves.

 

[Busterz]

For those interested in pictures, the following represent a typical "lineback" color pattern that we see in our crosses. Interestingly enough, the white pattern is even manifested in our longhorn mothers that are solid in color. Once again, my apologies to the Pinzgaur breeders that have a hard time selling across the scales at the local auctions. Most buyers will assume the pinzgaur pattern is due to longhorn influence.

The crosses will typically bring 80 cents per pound while our Brangus calves will bring $1.20 per pound for a 500 lb calf. In other words, solid black brings $200 more per calf.


Longhorn with 1 week old Longhorn/Angus cross calves dated 3/12/08

The Angus (Angus +) sire dated Fall '07

Those pictures are from West Texas? Where are you at and what kind of grass is that?

 

[Busterz]

I've hear of dehorning mature herefords making them really sick, does that happen when you dehorn longhorns?

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

South of Abilene about 30 miles.

Kleingrass with some giant Bermuda.

We have also used limousin on the longhorns with marginal success. Charolais would probably be your best bet for a longhorn cross.

My thinking is cutting off their horns is about as nice as cutting off a cat's whiskers.

 

[Busterz]

How much rain do you get?

What was the problem with the Limousins on Longhorns?

 

[stocky]

Busterz, There are 2 ways to dehorn the mature longhorns.
One is to dehorn slick down to the base at the head. This will knock them for awhile. I would not dehorn like this within 6 weeks of calving, while they are nursing, or while it is fly season. The cows will heal and look like they have never had horns and I have never lost a cow doing it this way.
The second is to tie off the blood supply and cut the horns off about 2 inches from the head. Leave the twine on to cut off the blood for 3 days and then take it off. Also, after cutting the horn off, pack the cavity with cotton and if it is fly season, spray with a good repellant. This way does not knock the animal off feed, it makes the horns tender for awhile when she is butting other cattle, but it can be done even within a couple of weeks of freshening. I have never lost a cow doing it this way, either
I dont do any type of dehorning during the heat of the summer or during a hot early fall. I also dont do any dehorning while a cow is suckling a calf. I use a heavy dose of lidocaine on the horn area when dehorning.

 

[Third Row]

I strongly disagree with the folks who talk about "fooling" the order buyers. Any order buyer who knows his cattle is not fooled by the color of a 600-700 lb calf. He can tell if the calf is a pinzgauer or a longhorn. He can tell if the calf is charlois/longhorn or charlois/angus or limo. People do not go solely on color when they are figuring the possible breed combinations. They do not pay what they pay because they are fooled, they pay it because it is the price they can pay and make money on the calf. Every one of the calves that I sold for 725 dollars each showed some longhorn in their body. Alot of people are disappointed in the price their calves bring because they seem to them one way, an order buyer may see them a different way.

Try walking into a group of spotted Simmental or Pinzgauer breeders and telling them that. Of course, good luck finding those spotted Simmental guys, they all got run out of business.

You give order buyers too much credit when you say they "do not go solely on color" when they are doing anything. Many (I'd dare say most) DO have specific instructions from their buyers not to buy spotted cattle because they'd rather miss out on a few deals than get burned trying to feed out a Longhorn.

Yes, people do see their cattle one way, as a beef breed cross which is what they are. The orders buyers do see them in a different way, as a Longhorn cross.