lively hereford bull

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

There are many things we could recommend. And probably the majority of people viewing the video wouldn't be afraid to walk in his pen & demand respect - but I sure wouldn't want to be the one telling you to do it. He's just a playfull spoiled brat.
If he is easy to put a halter on, you could halter him & tie his head up as high as you can, snubbed up so he cannot do much wiggling around. Clean his pen, let him stand there for at least 1/2 hour while you work around him. Then turn him loose. You can even leave the halter on him, let him drag it so that when you want to tie him, it's already on him. Do not PET HIM ON THE HEAD or scratch him on the head.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

There are many things we could recommend. And probably the majority of people viewing the video wouldn't be afraid to walk in his pen & demand respect - but I sure wouldn't want to be the one telling you to do it.

Exactly...

 

[sporder]

thanks for all the advice. the last couple of days have made a big difference. i have gave him a tap on the nose a couple of times as well as raiseing my voice and he either turns or stands quiet. i will post another video when i get time to show the difference.

 

[SRBeef]

thanks for all the advice. the last couple of days have made a big difference. i have gave him a tap on the nose a couple of times as well as raiseing my voice and he either turns or stands quiet. i will post another video when i get time to show the difference.

I hate to add more to this thread but I just looked at your videos for the first time and am very troubled by what I see.

There is a basic problem here in that you have been touching and playing with him. One should NEVER touch a bull, especially not as you have, scratching and rubbing him on the head!!!

I agree that this does not appear to be a particularly aggressive bull but in my opinion you have gone so far wrong with handling of him that he may be dangerous no matter what you do from here on.

I for one would NOT recommend trying to halter him or any other remedial action except selling him. He needs a different owner at this point. Even if you manage to change yourself and work with him, in my opinion he may at some time in the future relapse into his current "playful" mode. And if you are in the pasture with your back turned to him he may at some point send you to the hospital with a "playful" charge from behind.

My semi-beginner's advice: never ever touch a bull in any way, especially not as you have. I think he is dangerous at this point at least towards you. A different, more experienced owner may be able to reestablish control of him. My advice is to sell him now and start out differently with another bull or go to AI. Do not touch a bull, do not play with him.

To be very frank with you, I am afraid you are going to get hurt sooner or later by this bull due to his lack of respect for you caused by his handling as shown in your videos. jmho.

Jim

 

[Gators Rule]

What do you tell someone that asks you at the salebarn why you are selling your bull or cow?
I am selling them because they are too gentle.<--- that does not make sense

Sir, I'm not the smartest duck in the pond, but I'm not far from it in a few puddles... There is a HUGE difference between being gentle and being dangerous. Notice I said dangerous...not mean. While this bull isn't mean, it doesn't mean he is gentle. IMO...to be gentle would be to not be aggressive, playing or otherwise.

To the bull's owner, I won't give the direction to move this bull, but in this case.....for things to change, YOU (the bull's owner) have to change. No more petting bulls. If you need to pet or to play with something while you're around your herd, buy a Blue Heeler, as they like being scratched behind the ears, bulls don't.

30 years ago, while trying to halter break a young 1000 bull (a mean and NASTY one, though incredibly blessed with a perfect body structure), I ran into a brick wall. I tried to break him using kindness. Had a Johnson halter on him, and two nose rings. Tied him to a railroad crosstie anchored with two by sixes under ground (after he picked the first tie out of the ground..LoL). After two weeks of lovey dovey type handling, and almost getting killed a dozen times, my dad said enough of this, and as the bull charged him, he punted his nose with a right size 12 boot. Bull was halter broke immediatley, and I went on to win everything in sight, as well as showmanship at all the shows. The point is...no lovey dovey handling with bulls. It's dangereous. Teach respect at the outset, and remember to scratch your new Blue Heeler, not your bull. :cowboy:

 

[hillbillycwo]

I have an 8 year old hereford cow who loves to be petted and scratched. She comes running like a dog when any of us walk to the barn to feed morning treats. She stopps dead in her tracks the minute you raise your hand and say no...firmly not frantically or yelling it. We will scratch her ears and neck which I guess is wrong according to the advice in this thread so that will stop. Would I ship her? You bet the very minute she fails to respect one of us as the boss of the herd. Right now she really keeps all the herd in line and they follow her everywhere. She has done wonders calming down several head. Wish I had trained her she wouldn't get the scratching from an early age now that I realize the dangers of that behavior. Best purchase I have made so far.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

I have an 8 year old hereford cow who loves to be petted and scratched. She comes running like a dog when any of us walk to the barn to feed morning treats. She stopps dead in her tracks the minute you raise your hand and say no...firmly not frantically or yelling it. We will scratch her ears and neck which I guess is wrong according to the advice in this thread so that will stop. Would I ship her? You bet the very minute she fails to respect one of us as the boss of the herd. Right now she really keeps all the herd in line and they follow her everywhere. She has done wonders calming down several head. Wish I had trained her she wouldn't get the scratching from an early age now that I realize the dangers of that behavior. Best purchase I have made so far.

I've had bulls do this too. A maine bull I broke for a guy grew to about 1300kg and was still able to be caught in the paddock and would trundle along happily behind the guys bike. Of course we couldn't trust him, but there was never an issue with a neck or an ear scratch. But finding that balance between respect and a scratch is often hard so sometimes I guess it's better safe than sorry with some people. When my Dad was out the feedlot whenever he fed the bulls hay the big brangus would come up for a scratch. Dad said the same as me, I don't trust him, but he doesn't disrespect so I don't mind giving him a scratch under the neck. Having said that I've had them cross the line and am not shy in giving them a crack if they need it. I'm sure show people have had the joy of having a bull bunting you as you're waiting to go in or even in the ring. I give as good as I get. I don't trust them but I'm not going to tip toe around them.

 

[chippie]

how is it a risk? it only becomes a risk if i chose to enter the pen. despite what people may think i do know the boundarys. the video i showed first is extreme but as i have said its better to know extreme rather than not know. you have only seen the videos i have posted, i see him every day and would not put my life at risk. i have made the mistake of having the cows/heifers in veiw but still he has never tried to jump the gate. would you also advise the rodeo bull breeders to get rid of their bulls because they jump around a bit.

FYI: the rodeo bulls are trained to buck.

It's a shame, he's a nice looking bull. You created a monster by making a pet out of him. The best thing for him would be turned out on a place (several hundred acres, 1000 would be better) with a herd of cows and left alone until it is time to be worked.

I can't believe that you can't see that he is telling you that he doesn't like his head touched, yet you keep on pestering him. If you insist on keeping him, find someone knowledgeable who can train the bull and you.

Good luck.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I think some of you are going over-board. Sporder now knows he mishandled the bull. The bull is far from being a monster. He's a young playful bull that up until now, has not respected his owner.
He is FAR from being too far gone for a change. I saw no meaness in this bull.
Just so owner knows he can and will get hurt if management doesn't change.
Owners are trainable also :banana:

 

[cypressfarms]

how is it a risk? it only becomes a risk if i chose to enter the pen. despite what people may think i do know the boundarys. the video i showed first is extreme but as i have said its better to know extreme rather than not know. you have only seen the videos i have posted, i see him every day and would not put my life at risk.

WOW!

I've watched the videos. You don't have a bull problem. "Sporder" is the problem. As I watched the videos I was cringing. Your arm sticking through the gate is a risk. The bull can lift his head up quickly and break it off! When you stood on the gate and leaned over, you were taking a risk. The bull almost inadvertently killed you then. It doesn't look like you know the boundaries.

When I was a kid working cows with the family. I had the brilliant idea to climb up on top of the "runway" and vaccinate from above the cows. When the bull came through he jerked his head back and I flew about 10 feet. He wasn't trying to hurt me, but he weighed 2,000 pounds. I weighed maybe 120 at the time.

You mentioned how the person who you bought this bull from had lead several bulls in front of you to pick. This person has the respect of the animal. Your bull doesn't respect you in any way. Your petting him and rubbing him is most probably ticking him off more; this is not a yellow lab. If he were a Brangus, we would be talking about you in past tense. Your treatment of this animal has made him think of you as a play toy. This will not change with a new bull; this will only change when you learn how to handle cattle.

I really hope I'm not correct, but you will be the next person we read about getting killed by a bull. I never thought I'd say this, but you owing this animal is a risk to your life. Worst thing is that the bull is getting blamed for "bad behavior".

 

[chippie]

Jeanne,
I am an advocate for the bull.
When I said monster, I meant that the bull is spoiled like badly behaved kid. The owner created the bad behavior with his actions (not saying that the bull is mean). As far as the bull is concerned, his behavior is A-OK because it was allowed and appears to be even encouraged.

Now the bull behaves as before and is now punished. Talk about confusing for the bull. The owner needs a mentor to teach him and train the bull.

I think that it would be best for the bull to get turned out with his cows so that he can do his job. He doesn't need a person to frolic with, nor a person pestering him by trying to touch his head. It's clear that he doesn't like it.

Yes, it irritates me when I see stuff like this. I see it a lot with horses. The animal is badly behaved because of the owner's ignorance and the animal is the one that ends up suffering because of it.

 

[sporder]

It's a shame, he's a nice looking bull. You created a monster by making a pet out of him.

think you are blowing it out of proportion. he's hardly a monster. why is it that some people see him as playfull and others see him as an aggressive monster that needs a trip to mcdonalds. maybe some people dont have the experience they think they have. ( i've held my hands up will others).

I've watched the videos. You don't have a bull problem. "Sporder" is the problem. As I watched the videos I was cringing. Your arm sticking through the gate is a risk. The bull can lift his head up quickly and break it off! When you stood on the gate and leaned over, you were taking a risk. The bull almost inadvertently killed you then. It doesn't look like you know the boundaries.

if you had read all the other posts we had already established that i am the problem not the bull but if you wish to express your view you may. ( if another 70 posts say the same thing i may finally get the message). it was'nt me stood at the gate in the 2nd video i was taking the video.

I really hope I'm not correct, but you will be the next person we read about getting killed by a bull. I never thought I'd say this, but you owing this animal is a risk to your life. Worst thing is that the bull is getting blamed for "bad behavior".

do you really think that i am going to put my life at risk. having seen what he can do if he choses do you really think i am going to go and stand next to him or turn my back on him. i have cut the barley he was getting which has made a difference.

Yes, it irritates me when I see stuff like this. I see it a lot with horses. The animal is badly behaved because of the owner's ignorance and the animal is the one that ends up suffering because of it.

yes my ignorance has caused this but am i not allowed to try and right the wrongs that is why i posted in the first place. i new i was doing something wrong so i looked for advice. its worse to bury your head in the sand and continue as i was.

at the end of the day ( as a waste of space hobbie farmer ) i have opened myself up for criticism. as i hoped i have learnt from this and will continue to seek any experience required to produce good cattle.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I have faith in you Sporder. He's young and should be easily taught respect. Just don't trust him - as with any bull with any type dispostion - good, bad, or indifferent.
You figured you had a problem, now you know you had a problem, now you can fix it. "Hopefully"

 

[cypressfarms]

Well Sporder,

If you actually know what you've done wrong and how to do it better in the future, then I'd suggest you sell this bull (he won't ever respect you because he was taught not to), and buy another one. Maybe a new bull with your new outlook will work. I have to give it to you; you've taken criticism well.

By the way, what you feed him won't cure the problem. Sure some types of feed are higher energy than others; but this bull isn't acting that way because of the feed.

 

[bigag03]

Well Sporder,

If you actually know what you've done wrong and how to do it better in the future, then I'd suggest you sell this bull (he won't ever respect you because he was taught not to), and buy another one. Maybe a new bull with your new outlook will work. I have to give it to you; you've taken criticism well.

By the way, what you feed him won't cure the problem. Sure some types of feed are higher energy than others; but this bull isn't acting that way because of the feed.

Cypress, again you are blowing this out of proportion. This bull does not need to be sold. He needs to be treated like a bull. It sounds like Sporder gets it and will do just fine.

 

[CKC1586]

My cattle love "clean sheets" gets them all excited and they like to stir up the straw and kick up their heels. That may be what he is doing. I do not bed the pens with the cattle in them, PIA trying to clean or bed with them in the way.
You have a door at the back of his pen, close it and bed the pen. Open it and feed him. Problem solved.
Also I couldn't help but notice that when the person was putting their hand into the pen to "pet" him they put their arm thru the gate and not over the gate. If he tossed his head that arm could easily be broken, without him intending any harm.

 

[chippie]

Re: monster

...I am an advocate for the bull.
When I said monster, I meant that the bull is spoiled like badly behaved kid. The owner created the bad behavior with his actions (not saying that the bull is mean). As far as the bull is concerned, his behavior is A-OK because it was allowed and appears to be even encouraged.

Now the bull behaves as before and is now punished. Talk about confusing for the bull. The owner needs a mentor to teach him and train the bull.

I think that it would be best for the bull to get turned out with his cows so that he can do his job. He doesn't need a person to frolic with, nor a person pestering him by trying to touch his head. It's clear that he doesn't like it.

At least read what is written.

I realize that everyone begins somewhere, but I would hope that a newbie would be more careful when handling a bull. You see, I created a "monster" also with my first bottle heifer when I was 20. I treated her similarly to the way you were treating your bull in the video - like a pet. She was not all at all mean nor aggressive, however she became so dangerous to be around I had to sell her. She had no respect for people and when frisky, she would charge and try to butt.

He's your bull and I'm sure that you have a lot of money invested in him and do not want to take a loss.

Did you see the article I posted a couple of months ago when a "hobby farmer's" miniature bull almost killed him because he played with it like you did in your video?

One thing for sure, I would be very careful around him during breeding season because of your interaction with him. Who knows whether or not he may decide that you are a threat or competition. :?

 

[sporder]

chippie i hope i did'nt offend you with my reply as with anyone else who has posted. i beleive he can gain respect for me but i will always have in my mind that he can kill me. i made another video today so you can see a difference. he does still move froward but only a couple of steps. i then give him a tap on the nose and he stands. i was a meter and a half away from him and a meter away from exit. he now tends to just stand when i enter the pen. even so i know he is still dangerous and if he wanted to he could have gone for me. but he never. my gaurd is still up.

 

[novatech]

chippie i hope i did'nt offend you with my reply as with anyone else who has posted. i beleive he can gain respect for me but i will always have in my mind that he can kill me. i made another video today so you can see a difference. he does still move froward but only a couple of steps. i then give him a tap on the nose and he stands. i was a meter and a half away from him and a meter away from exit. he now tends to just stand when i enter the pen. even so i know he is still dangerous and if he wanted to he could have gone for me. but he never. my gaurd is still up.

God job Sporder.

One thing for sure, I would be very careful around him during breeding season because of your interaction with him. Who knows whether or not he may decide that you are a threat or competition.

Some people may think you are joking about this but I can ensure everyone this can and has happened. A close friend Had a Brahman bull the was extremely gentle. He rode him in parades, Scratched him all over every time he went in the pasture. Once he went into the pasture when a cow was in heat. The bull proceeded to try and kill him. Luckily he escaped with minor injuries. I don't think bulls know the difference especially when you spent so much time with them they think you are just one of the bunch.

 

[agmantoo]

I work my cattle in the open pasture with all sizes and sexes present. I do not view that bull as dangerous, only confused and untrained. Given some guidance/training and a herd to care for I think he would abandon the frolicking an attempts of intimidating. He is young, full of energy and bored. Burdened a workload of heavy breeding and living off grass alone he would IMO opinion become a changed animal under the care of a skilled herds person.