Little operation ,medium operation, big operation

[mwj]

but isn't it usually a big guy who sets the kind of times it is?

don't know of many little guys that'd ever have enough power to start a new fad, or be able to alter the times... just chase them...

Jake
Do you have an example of any outfit in modern times that was able to ''alter the times'' because of no.'s . As far as ''fads'' someone else can have mine :lol:
your friend
Mike

 

[Oldtimer]

but isn't it usually a big guy who sets the kind of times it is?

don't know of many little guys that'd ever have enough power to start a new fad, or be able to alter the times... just chase them...

Jake
Do you have an example of any outfit in modern times that was able to ''alter the times'' because of no.'s . As far as ''fads'' someone else can have mine :lol:
your friend
Mike

mwj- One outfit that made a big impact on breeding trends in our area was Future Beef- they had many big producers as investors.... Really pushed the continentals- especially limousin and charolais- had to be at least 1/4 continental and fit their program in order to sell to them- Then they payed over market prices for these.... I know of several cattlemen that went to running limousin bulls to fit the program, but ended up with terrible mother cows by doing this and are now having to go out and buy all their replacements....Then Future Beef when bankrupt and all the fad chasing was for naught........

 

[Bret]

I know that this is a serious question. I believe that the average herd size in Indiana is in the 20's. I reserve the right to absolutely wrong as always.

I would like to think that in order for my herd to be classified as an operation that it at least have possitive cash flow and that the ranch owner, forman and manure handler(myself in every case) each get a small income.

 

[Farmhand]

I tend to think fads can be set by anyone. The big guys can say it but if no one listens...... Also think fads don't get set by little guys because we have a tendency to sit back and listen instead of....... I am small. Usually sell 5 - 10 at a time. Biggest problem I have is getting a buyer to come out and take a look. They don't want to waste time driving out to look at a little group. Not exciting enough I guess. One phone call to the packer took care of that problem. Packer said ALL cattle important to them. They don't care if you're selling 5 or 50. Here's a thought on little guys and herd managment - maybe we do it better. Don't have so many to do and won't take so long to do it. We may not use "name brand" or high dollar anything but that doesn't mean we don't look like we do. The vet and the pocket book have always been pleased with our animals. Must be doing something right.

 

[tapeworm]

Keep it up Jake!!!! Your doing a good job...youve got the hobby guys mighty defensive. Even worse are the ornamental breeds and incidental breeds and toy breeds "ranchers". Nothing wrong with a manraising cattle for your hobby..just admit thats what you do. Dont pretend that you have an "operation"!!! I know they represent a lot of the national cowherd.....they also represent a lot of the problem with lack of consistency and lack of uniformity. But dont quit doing it whatever you do...when I give an order for a load ofstocker calves from Arkansas or Missisipi or even eastern texas I get to make moeny off of your misfit mismanaged junk. Just keep those bulls out all year!!! I like it!!!!!!

 

[Chuckie]

I'm Average! I don't care how many cows someone has or what size they want to call their operation. It just doesn't effect me one way or another. We all have things we can learn from each other.

 

[Farmhand]

I consider myself small but after reading some of these posts I may have to rethink that some. About 100 head here but in various stages of growth. Means I have a few head ready to sell year round instead of a bunch at one time. Spread my income out through the year and I don't have to budget so hard. There are some who sell everything in a pen at once because a few are just right. I don't. I don't get docked for ones that are overdone and I don't get docked for ones that aren't done enough either. And yes my bull works year round. We calve three times a year.

 

[Bama]

By these standards I go from small to average several times a year. I more or less do a stocker OPERATION. I recon a cattle operation can be any number of head. It has never occured to me if I'm average. Most of the folks around me have cattle. I don't have any idea how many. They manage their herd as they see fit. As far as anyone being a large operation I would define it more along the lines as is this their only income. Someone with only 10 head, and they make their living on those 10 head would be a large operation. I guess someone on disability or social security could supplement their income with as few as 10 head. There are few here on this board that I would consider large operators. I have yet to find one of them that looks down on us small timers. Most of them have been in the business long enough to realize that us small timers have a big impact on the cattle market. One person with 1000 head is the same as 100 people with 10 head. At the feedstores that one person carries a lot of clout. Those 100 people also make a big impression just on the personal contact alone. Those 100 people have a lot to say about what the industry's demands are. If all the small operations were to sit out just one week, and not carry anything to market, it would have a dramatic impact on the cattle industry.

Right or wrong this is just my thoughts.

 

[Craig-TX]

Most of the most experienced and knowledgeable cow men I've ever known would fit into the "small" category.

Craig-TX

 

[Oldtimer]

By these standards I go from small to average several times a year. I more or less do a stocker OPERATION. I recon a cattle operation can be any number of head. It has never occured to me if I'm average. Most of the folks around me have cattle. I don't have any idea how many. They manage their herd as they see fit. As far as anyone being a large operation I would define it more along the lines as is this their only income. Someone with only 10 head, and they make their living on those 10 head would be a large operation. I guess someone on disability or social security could supplement their income with as few as 10 head. There are few here on this board that I would consider large operators. I have yet to find one of them that looks down on us small timers. Most of them have been in the business long enough to realize that us small timers have a big impact on the cattle market. One person with 1000 head is the same as 100 people with 10 head. At the feedstores that one person carries a lot of clout. Those 100 people also make a big impression just on the personal contact alone. Those 100 people have a lot to say about what the industry's demands are. If all the small operations were to sit out just one week, and not carry anything to market, it would have a dramatic impact on the cattle industry.

Right or wrong this is just my thoughts.

Bama- I have to pretty much agree... Everyone is a different situation for area of operation, debt load, operating expenses and ability to profit on what they have to operate with...I have seen many 100 and 200 cow operations which were much better off financially and actually had more income than some of the 1000 cow operations- and they didn't have half the workload and ten times less worry........

 

[catl]

most days that I wouldn't call anything under 10 head an operation..... those are usually pets.... but those herds are factored in...

When that beef goes on a plate there isn't any label that tells the consumer the no. of head in the herd! These cattle move the mkt. just the same as a large herd.
your friend
Mike

I still don't consider it a operation.... and your not gunna change that opinion.... You can't tell me that those 10 or fewer head are going to have the impact that 50 or 100 will... When you have less than 10 head your not in it for a living it's a hobby... and a hobby isn't an operation to me...

Strike two Jake. Land prices going down,hobby farms feeding the people.To me an operation is anything that has an impact on our economy.

 

[Campground Cattle]

I guess I should just quit after all these years I don't count Being we are such a itty bitty outfit ;-)

 

[CattleAnnie]

Interesting thread here.

Local auction market changed ownership some years back and made a huge mistake when the new owner "overlooked" the importance of the "little guys".

When the smaller operaters discovered that the commission was lowered for the sellers of larger numbers of calves, the "little guys" started to get together and make up liner loads of their cattle and sent them east and south to Alberta to sell.

They had their noses out of joint, and I guess figured that if the local mart wouldn't give them the same rate, they'd just as soon pay their commision to another market.

I spent some time working at the mart shortly after the change of owners and it was the last fall run with sales numbering 3000+- head. Two years later a "big" sale was in the 1200-1500 head range. And that was in the thick of the Fall Run.

Moral of story - never under estimate the power of the "little guys".

On a somewhat similar note, the Pre-Sort sales have also become a big hit with those smaller operations, as they can sell their calves in large lots of similar weight, frame, and colour.

Take care.

 

[Ryder]

I always thought that big was more than what you got and small was less than what you got.

Seems to me that owners of some pretty good sized (to me) operations make or have made most of their money elsewhere. But they are still bigger than some that are not hobby operations.

 

[mwj]

Keep it up Jake!!!! Your doing a good job...youve got the hobby guys mighty defensive. Even worse are the ornamental breeds and incidental breeds and toy breeds "ranchers". Nothing wrong with a manraising cattle for your hobby..just admit thats what you do. Dont pretend that you have an "operation"!!! I know they represent a lot of the national cowherd.....they also represent a lot of the problem with lack of consistency and lack of uniformity. But dont quit doing it whatever you do...when I give an order for a load ofstocker calves from Arkansas or Missisipi or even eastern texas I get to make moeny off of your misfit mismanaged junk. Just keep those bulls out all year!!! I like it!!!!!!

Nice thoughtfull post tapeworm. I am alwys glad to hear how you make ''money'' off of ''mismanaged junk'' .Let me be the first to thank you for saving the industry so everyone else can feel free to raise ''junk'

 

[Jake]

most days that I wouldn't call anything under 10 head an operation..... those are usually pets.... but those herds are factored in...

When that beef goes on a plate there isn't any label that tells the consumer the no. of head in the herd! These cattle move the mkt. just the same as a large herd.
your friend
Mike

I still don't consider it a operation.... and your not gunna change that opinion.... You can't tell me that those 10 or fewer head are going to have the impact that 50 or 100 will... When you have less than 10 head your not in it for a living it's a hobby... and a hobby isn't an operation to me...

Strike two Jake. Land prices going down,hobby farms feeding the people.To me an operation is anything that has an impact on our economy.

Just give me a few days... the mood I've been in lately I'll hit about strike 5.....