Little help with a newborn-final update

[Alan]

Had a heifer calf out of a first time heifer at around midnight last night. Big calf, around 90 to 95lbs, haven't weighed her yet...bigger things going on. The birth was unassited but wasn't the easy 20 minute type of birth, mom started cleaning her up, all seemed fine at 1 am. Checked calf at 6 am could not get up yet, tubed her with 2 quarts of colostrum at about 7am, she seems strong enough. Gave her calf shots, Bo-Se and Vit A D, treated navel and at 10 am hauled her to the Vet, all seems fine, good heart, no temp, no pallet problems, no leg problems, just a bit weak. At this point 12:40 pm can get up on front end for a few seconds but not back end, but did stand leaning on me at the Vets for a couple minutes, she does suck well on my fingers. BTW, she is out of a good calving ease bull, SHF Progress, Legend 242 son. She was pretty cold when I checked her a 6 am, temp was around 35 F but wet, cold ground and it had rained a little during the night, put warm towels on her at that point and a bed of hay. I really don't think she has any problems with her tendons, neither does the Vet. Any suggestions? I really do not want to put her back with mom until she can get up, don't see the point in putting her on cold ground again even if she is on a bed of hay, she does try to get up but ends up off the bed of hay as soon as she trys. if she is not up by later this afternoon I'll move her and mom to a stall in the barn. Mom is doing fine, has already cleaned out and had a belly full of hay, not to frantic about where the calf is but does continue to go back to were the calf was lying before I took her to the Vet.

I hope I got all the details in there, any suggestions or thoughts?
Thanks,
Alan

 

[plumber_greg]

Just make her stand. Hold her up, prop her legs under and balance her. She'll get stronger. 2 quarts is a lot. I like to leave them a little hungry and looking. 2 quarts over a 5 or six hour period is better in my opinion. Hope this helps. gs

 

[Alan]

Thanks for the quick reply Greg, I probably fudge a bit on the 2 qts, my wife mixed it up and I see the package said 1 1/2 qts of water. So closer to just under a qt and a half. I'll try your tip on making her stand.

Thanks again,
Alan

 

[hillsdown]

That calf needs 2 litres of colostrum for feedings until she is 48 hours old. So that means 4 feedings in total at 2 litres each. Keep groceries in her until she is able to drink on her own from mom. I would move her in with mom now and keep them somewhere warm. Keep checking on her and when she can finally stand and drink from mom on her own your job is done. I would also give her b12 everyday for 3-4 days.

Do not limit her colostrum, you can fiddle around with her after she has had that much needed survival milk.

 

[backhoeboogie]

That calf needs 2 litres of colostrum

You gonna make him calculate?

 

[hillsdown]

That calf needs 2 litres of colostrum

You gonna make him calculate?

Isn't it 4 pints..

If he is using powdered colostrum just make sure the calf gets a full feeding. It will say on the bag whether it is a half feeding or full feeding . From the sounds of it the first feeding was a whole feeding, now she needs one more tonight and two more tomorrow.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

2 bits, 4 bits, 6 bits a dolla, if ya like cattle stand up and holla!!!!!!!!1

 

[milkmaid]

I agree with the 4 quarts within 24 hours rule - that colostrum is vital to the calf's survival. That said, if you're using commercial colostrum - I learned recently that not all colostrum replacers are created equal. Calf needs at least 100g of IgG within the first 24 hours of life. Check the label on the package; some replacers say 100g, some say 50g, etc and so you may need to increase the amount of powder you're mixing up in order to get the calf enough immunoglobulins for protection.

 

[Alan]

2 bits, 4 bits, 6 bits a dolla, if ya like cattle stand up and holla!!!!!!!!1

I'm up and HOLLA!!!!!!!!! I do love cattle and the puzzles that come with them!.

Alan

 

[Alan]

Thanks for all the good advice so far just an update; the calf is in the barn with mom, mom is doing great and very attentive to her calf. The calf was up on her own for a few seconds in the stall... until mom got nervous and knock her over with her nose, that is the last I've seen the calf up on her own. We (my wife did most of the work) gave the calf a second dose of colostrum a couple of hours ago...tubed. I have been trying to get the calf to stand on its own every few hours thoughout the day. By the amount and strength the calf has while tubing and the cows (moms) urging, I'm feeling pretty positive at this point about the out come (I hope I didn't jinx myself). The calf is bright and alert just struggles it get up.... we'll see.

One more note, to my wife and all the ladies who work 8 to 10 hours a day at a money making job, get up early and work late to help their man with a problem... thank you, no one works harder than you..... yes my wife has named the heifer Rose Bud and if she makes it or not the calf is hers.... I hope to get to choose the AI bulls for Rose Bud.

Thanks again and will welcome anymore tips or advice.
Alan

 

[KMacGinley]

People get pretty carried away with that getting two quarts down them business. That recomendation is based on a big Holstein calf. If the calf in question is an 60-80 lb beef calf, a quart to a quart and a half is plenty.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

He already said it was about 90#.
Anyway, no matter how big it is (unless it's a real runt) I always give a full bottle of colostrum (2 quarts) immediately & again 12 hours later.
How much BoSe did you give her? I give 4 ml for any weight up to 100# & 5 ml over. If I have a calf that is still acting weak, I hit it again the next day with 1 ml IM & 1 ml SQ.
Good luck. Sounds like you are staying on top of things.
Hope I don't jinx my last 9 calves due - we haven't had to touch one - other than normal shots, weigh & tag & iodine.
Started the season with a 4 week early dead calf, born dead with placenta. Oh yeah, also had a bad presentation set of twins (duh - how can I forget TWINS!!!!!) but, haven't had to help one get going ---- YET!

 

[Alan]

Thanks for all the replies, but I'm starting to lose hope. Jeanne to answer your question I give 2.5ml of Bo-Se to all newborns, plus all cattle have minerals at all times including selineum (sp) 24/7/365. We, my wife and I, are now at 40+ hrs since birth, calf continues to try to stand, but can only support herself for a half minute or so. We will give the fourth tubing of colostrum tonight and try to get her to stand. I also have her stand over a bale of hay 3 to 4 times a day for half and hour or so (tired of holding her up and fighting to get her to stand), if she wants to she can stand and clear the bale by 2 inches and she does try to climb over it but can't. She seems strong enough by the way she fights all the way through the tubing process and other treatments, all legs work (I've been kicked by all and have seen her stand well on all... one or two at a time). We gave her a bag of fluids today sub-Q (1000 ml) with vit B in it but seems no effect.

Any help or further advice????????

Thanks,
Alan

 

[smnherf]

It sounds like you have had some good advice and probably have done all you can, but I would recommend giving the calf a broad spectrum antibiotic too. Calves that are slow to get up and going tend to also be very susceptable to fast acting pneumonia. Good luck.

Brian

 

[Alan]

It sounds like you have had some good advice and probably have done all you can, but I would recommend giving the calf a broad spectrum antibiotic too. Calves that are slow to get up and going tend to also be very susceptable to fast acting pneumonia. Good luck.

Brian

Thanks for the quick response, I should also add that I do temp her everyday, since she was pretty cold when I checked her the morning of day 1, at this point she has had a normal temp. But Antibiotics are ready to go as soon as she shows signs of a temp, I just don't want to pour more than on top of all I'm doing at this point, we mess with her a lot. But, please don't think your advice or suggestion is taking lightly, I'll take all the help I can at this point. :tiphat: .

BTW, as most that know me know, I realize this is completly on the wrong board, but the breeds board get a lot more hits and I was looking for quick advice.... and got it. Thanks to all!!!

Alan

 

[milkmaid]

How does she act when she does stand? you mentioned she stands on one or two legs at a time - does she ever stand on all four? how's her head position, sense of balance, etc? can she walk, or require constant support? any abnormal reflexes, head carriage, vision, etc? perfectly normal calf or are there any abnormalities, ie head, eyes, mouth?

Will she suck at all or do you have to tube her? I'd be inclined to bottle feed her for now if possible, prefer not to tube except for sick calves or those that refuse to drink.

I wouldn't give up on yet - she's not quite 2 days old, and I've seen some big Holstein bull calves who didn't want to stand for a couple days and they were fine with a bit of time. I know you beef folks get used to calves being up in 30 minutes, but at least from my perspective I wouldn't be overly concerned for another 24 hours or so.

 

[KMacGinley]

He already said it was about 90#.
Anyway, no matter how big it is (unless it's a real runt) I always give a full bottle of colostrum (2 quarts) immediately & again 12 hours later.
How much BoSe did you give her? I give 4 ml for any weight up to 100# & 5 ml over. If I have a calf that is still acting weak, I hit it again the next day with 1 ml IM & 1 ml SQ.
Good luck. Sounds like you are staying on top of things.
Hope I don't jinx my last 9 calves due - we haven't had to touch one - other than normal shots, weigh & tag & iodine.
Started the season with a 4 week early dead calf, born dead with placenta. Oh yeah, also had a bad presentation set of twins (duh - how can I forget TWINS!!!!!) but, haven't had to help one get going ---- YET!

Why I declare Jeanne: he did say it was a 90 lb calf which is closer to 80 than 110 or up which the 2 quarts is for. My reply was not specifically and only for this calf, but rather for other people trying to stuff twice as much milk down a small calf at birth than it really needs.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Mac - obviously, you have a pet peeve about how much to feed a newborn, but I have been told & read numerous articles that say 2L or 2 qts immediately.
Here are a few articles (and btw, these are great articles for all to read):
The calf's ability to absorb immunoglobulins decreases rapidly with age. This is why it is recommended
that calves consume colostrum within the first 2 hours following birth. Two quarts of colostrum should
be administered by drench or bottle, followed by 2 more quarts 4 to 6 hours later.8 Gut closure will start to occur after consumption of any liquid. Once this happens, the calf's ability to absorb immunoglobulins decreases.
http://agbiopubs.sdstate.edu/articles/ExEx2050.pdf

Under grazing situations, it is best to administer a single fluid feeding so that the calf is handled only once. In this case, it is important to use an esophageal feeder. The esophageal feeder will allow a 3-L volume to be easily administered. This volume is not excessive for the calf, but will allow a large amount of Ig to be administered in a single fluid feeding.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/an110

Accordingly, calves should consume a minimum of 2 liters of colostrum within their first hour of life followed by an additional 2 liters over the next 6 to 12 hours. Timing of colostrum intake is critical because the intestines ability to absorb antibodies declines as the calf ages. Intestinal absorption progressively lessens after 12 hours of age and complete gut closure typically results after 24 hours.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livest ... 14s00.html

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Alan - I would still give the calf some more BoSe. If you read the directions, you gave the MINIMUM amount recommended. I believe it recommends 2.75 to 3.5 / 100#
I have had vets tell me to hit them again the next day & again the next if they are not getting stronger.

 

[Alan]

I just wanted to say thanks for all the help on this calf. A final update, she looked pretty weak on Wed. morning, we tubed her, gave her another 100ml of fluids w Vit B., a shot of pen and some Dex (as per Vets instructions)..... she was dead by 3 pm. We did get her to stand on her on and even take a dozen or so steps Tues morning.

Not the way to start calving season.... but waiting on the next calf, should come soon

Thanks again,
Alan