Liquid Feed Results

[Rydero]

Thanks. That makes sense. How do you know how many pounds per day the cow needs? Is it a set number or does it vary based on the protein quality? Is there a minimum and maximum amount of pounds that can or will eat regardless of protein content?

Not sure if you mean how much protein a cow needs? That varies based on if she's lactating, pregnant/how pregnant etc.

How much protein she'll consume? They'll eat more than they need and just sh*t the extra out if the ration contains more than she needs.

How much supplement she needs? Depends how much protein the rest of the ration supplies. It could be none (doesn't mean she won't eat some). It could also be way more than she could/would ever eat of it.

 

[Rydero]

Kiss... what your doing is supplementing what your cows are grazing. The liquid is in no way a major part of their ration. You have no way of knowing how much each eats per day. Iirc your pretty much on pasture with winter grass and I imagine some burr clover and winter weeds. Probably had some warm season grass greening last week lol.
The hay your setting out gets visiting then the cows go out and rustle some green and lick the feeder from time to time. ( I'm guessing)You don't need a computer program, just keep a eye on your cattle.

To me .36/h/d is a significant price to pay for something that's in no way a significant part of their ration. I can feed a cow in the frozen North with no grazing at all for less than $2/h/d. He's paying 20% of that for something the cows might not even need. The software I bought saves me more than it cost to buy every single day I don't waste .36/h/d supplementing when it isn't necessary. Also taught me why liquid protein and licks are generally a waste of money - they don't do much to move the needle in a ration and they're relatively expensive.

 

[callmefence]

To me .36/h/d is a significant price to pay for something that's in no way a significant part of their ration. I can feed a cow in the frozen North with no grazing at all for less than $2/h/d. He's paying 20% of that for something the cows might not even need. The software I bought saves me more than it cost to buy every single day I don't waste .36/h/d supplementing when it isn't necessary. Also taught me why liquid protein and licks are generally a waste of money - they don't do much to move the needle in a ration and they're relatively expensive.

If your in the frozen north I reckon your cows ain't grazing. Brutes are.
There is a difference...

Didn't mean nothing by my post. Sorry if you took it that way.

Edit. You are probably right about your computer program. I don't own one so I wouldn't know....a computer I mean.

 

[Rydero]

If your in the frozen north I reckon your cows ain't grazing. Brutes are.
There is a difference...

Didn't mean nothing by my post. Sorry if you took it that way.

Edit. You are probably right about your computer program. I don't own one so I wouldn't know....a computer I mean.

No offense taken. Huge difference. My point is mostly based on a guess that if he's grazing, he probably doesn't need the supplement. Having the tool of the program has opened my eyes big time when it comes to feeding cattle, some things we do trying to do a good thing just costs us money. We feed close to 200 days a year so our mistakes can be a big deal.

 

[Brute 23]

To me .36/h/d is a significant price to pay for something that's in no way a significant part of their ration. I can feed a cow in the frozen North with no grazing at all for less than $2/h/d. He's paying 20% of that for something the cows might not even need. The software I bought saves me more than it cost to buy every single day I don't waste .36/h/d supplementing when it isn't necessary. Also taught me why liquid protein and licks are generally a waste of money - they don't do much to move the needle in a ration and they're relatively expensive.

My application is basically we have a bunch of low protein, stock piled grass. I think the point of the liquid feed is not to necessarily feed them but make them eat enough of the grass to get some value from it.

 

[Rydero]

My application is basically we have a bunch of low protein, stock piled grass. I think the point of the liquid feed is not to necessarily feed them but make them eat enough of the grass to get some value from it.

I get it. I've had this discussion before. Best way to show you what I'm talking about is to show you some scenarios in my program. I'll plug some stuff in later today when I get a chance and share the results. If you give me some details it'll help but I can make up values as well. Main things are how heavy are the cows, are they bred, how many months bred, are they lactating, what's the temperature there, what are you feeding and in what amounts/head per day, what does each thing cost/lb? Don't share anything you don't want or you can pm me too.

 

[Rydero]

So. Assuming a 1400lb Brahman cross cow in good body condition a couple months into lactation Desired average daily gain .25lbs/day. If your stockpile is at 6% protein and 55 TDN % (I used the value they have for overwinter grass but bumped the feed value a little assuming it would be a little better there). I put the stockpile grass as $0/lb (I'd need some details to give it a value) From your earlier post .1 bales per cow of hay I put 1.5lbs a day of 14% protein 51.5 TDN% hay at $75/bale in as well.

All things being equal except 2.5 lbs/h/d of 32% liquid protein (generic nutrition values I'd need info from the tag to be exact) at $235/ton.

Without the protein - Net energy for maintenance total (Mcal) is 17.05 (18.16 desired), protein (grams) is 951 (1343 desired) - cows will lose 1/2 a body condition score in 213 days on this ration and costs .08/h/d

With protein - Net energy for maintenance total is 17.34 (18.16 desired), protein is 1263 (1344 desired) - cows will lose 1/2 a body condition score in 287 days and cost is .38/h/d

If you fed 2.5 lbs of barley a day instead - Net energy for maintenance total is 18.12, protein 1026 - cows would lose 1/2 a body condition score in 400 days and cost .33/h/d

They'll be losing body condition more from lack of energy than lack of protein and the supplement does very little to help that for the cost imo. For me it's ok at certain points for cows to very slowly lose some condition to save me thousands but that's me. What do you think?

 

[JMJ Farms]

Whats the name of the software you are using?

 

[anewcomer]

Rydero, how much intake from the stockpile did you figure?

 

[Rydero]

Rydero, how much intake from the stockpile did you figure?

I used 42.5 lbs (70% DM) without the liquid and 40 lbs with it. Assuming it's free choice I just put enough to fill them.

 

[Rydero]

Whats the name of the software you are using?

I use Cowbytes. There's others. Some on here have mentioned some that are free even.

 

[Brute 23]

So. Assuming a 1400lb Brahman cross cow in good body condition a couple months into lactation Desired average daily gain .25lbs/day. If your stockpile is at 6% protein and 55 TDN % (I used the value they have for overwinter grass but bumped the feed value a little assuming it would be a little better there). I put the stockpile grass as $0/lb (I'd need some details to give it a value) From your earlier post .1 bales per cow of hay I put 1.5lbs a day of 14% protein 51.5 TDN% hay at $75/bale in as well.

All things being equal except 2.5 lbs/h/d of 32% liquid protein (generic nutrition values I'd need info from the tag to be exact) at $235/ton.

Without the protein - Net energy for maintenance total (Mcal) is 17.05 (18.16 desired), protein (grams) is 951 (1343 desired) - cows will lose 1/2 a body condition score in 213 days on this ration and costs .08/h/d

With protein - Net energy for maintenance total is 17.34 (18.16 desired), protein is 1263 (1344 desired) - cows will lose 1/2 a body condition score in 287 days and cost is .38/h/d

If you fed 2.5 lbs of barley a day instead - Net energy for maintenance total is 18.12, protein 1026 - cows would lose 1/2 a body condition score in 400 days and cost .33/h/d

They'll be losing body condition more from lack of energy than lack of protein and the supplement does very little to help that for the cost imo. For me it's ok at certain points for cows to very slowly lose some condition to save me thousands but that's me. What do you think?

That's awesome. Can you put whole cottonseed in instead of barley? I'm doing #5 per head twice a week. Not sure if that little helps any at all or not. It costs $150/#1000.

The hay was only used a few times when we pulled them up in traps, basically when we took the free choice stockpiled grass away. I'd like to run with out hay at all except in like extreme weather or penning them and what not.

The place we tried the liquid feed at has 50 mommas with Nov & Dec calves. They run around #1300... your pretty good. LoL

Its interesting too see these numbers for optimizing with costs while also using your eyes in the field.

Thanks for this

 

[Allenw]

I used 42.5 lbs (70% DM) without the liquid and 40 lbs with it. Assuming it's free choice I just put enough to fill them.

With proper protein supplementation cattle will actually eat more lower quality feed then with out supplementation.

 

[elkwc]

I researched liquid feed for several years. Talked to several good cattle men feeding in our area and several that have fed it in the past. We decided to try it last winter. We are spread out over a large distance. Yesterday putting out hay in preparation for the storm we traveled over 100 miles. So we also factor in the cost of gas, repair and time when deciding what is the most economical. We stock lighter and usually have plenty of old grass to graze. If we feed cubes we usually feed every other day sometimes on good weather we skip 2. With the liquid feed we check them around every 5 days and feed 1/2 the amount of cubes just to keep them coming to the truck. We are using 2 types of liquid feed. One in open top tubs that runs 28-30% protein and the other one is in lick wheel tanks and around 20% and both are around 8-20% fat. The cattle utilize the old grass better and seem to eat varieties they wouldn't otherwise. When all factors are considered this is the most economical for us. We tried tubs. Cattle did fine but too costly.

 

[callmefence]

The thing everyone everytime forgets to pencil in with liquid feed and tubs vs grain is labor.

 

[Rydero]

The thing everyone everytime forgets to pencil in with liquid feed and tubs vs grain is labor.

I agree but I don't. The liquid just doesn't do enough. I'd probably do neither based on the results. 287 days vs 213 days to lose 1/2 BCS. The cattle aren't even likely to be in that feeding situation for 200 days in your climate are they?

My cattle gain and lose a little weight throughout the year, it's not a big deal if it occurs at the right times. If it was me I'd be conspiring to have the cattle dry when on the stockpile (if that's possible there - I don't presume to know how to run cattle there though) it would make a way bigger difference.

I'll shut up now. I've found arguing about tubs/liquid is a zero sum game, a bit like talking religion. I just haven't seen the light, I don't see the evidence, it doesn't compute based on my understanding of nutrition so I don't believe and the protein preacher has his hand in my pocket so I don't trust him.

 

[callmefence]

I agree but I don't. The liquid just doesn't do enough. I'd probably do neither based on the results. 287 days vs 213 days to lose 1/2 BCS. The cattle aren't even likely to be in that feeding situation for 200 days in your climate are they?

My cattle gain and lose a little weight throughout the year, it's not a big deal if it occurs at the right times. If it was me I'd be conspiring to have the cattle dry when on the stockpile (if that's possible there - I don't presume to know how to run cattle there though) it would make a way bigger difference.

I'll shut up now. I've found arguing about tubs/liquid is a zero sum game, a but like talking religion. I just haven't seen the light, I don't see the evidence, it doesn't compute based on my understanding of nutrition so I don't believe and the protein preacher has his hand in my pocket so I don't trust him.

Again I apologise is having a different opinion is arguing with you.
You say you haven't seen the light I'm wondering have you looked past your keyboard??
I'm slow I guess I also missed the labor you plugged in

 

[Rydero]

Again I apologise is having a different opinion is arguing with you.
You say you haven't seen the light I'm wondering have you looked past your keyboard??

Lol. I'm not saying it's been arguing but that's where it'll go so I thought I'd stop before it did. I don't think I'll change anyone's mind. Too late I guess - oh well.

Yes I've looked beyond my keyboard. 2 open out of 89 last year. I keep expanding, buying land and cattle. I make a full time living off of cattle between my own and working on another larger farm. I'm good.

 

[callmefence]

Lol. I'm not saying it's been arguing but that's where it'll go so I thought I'd stop before it did. I don't think I'll change anyone's mind. Too late I guess - oh well.

Yes I've looked beyond my keyboard. 2 open out of 89 last year. I keep expanding, buying land and cattle. I make a full time living off of cattle between my own and working on another larger farm. I'm good.

Congratulations. ...keep working maybe someday you won't have to work for anyone.
I don't understand how that effects your knowledge of south Texas pasture. I do enjoy your opinion.
But brute stated he thought it was working for him. And I've certainly seen it work well for others in his situation. I guess I put more credibility in what I've seen than what I hear.

 

[simme]

I think when it comes to forages, feedstuffs, hay, feeding and similar issues, expertise is local. Our knowledge and experience is based on the "physical where" that it came from. Probably many on here would struggle with those issues if they relocated 500 miles north or south of where they have learned what works. Or the other side of a mountain range, etc. Grass varieties and soils and terrain and weather play big roles in those topics. At least that is my thought. I would be lost if I were in the locations that some of you guys are in.