Linebreding or inbreeding???

[alexfarms]

The thing that bothers me most about this thread is that alot of it is probably true. To tie all of this together in a very WEIRD way back to cattle breeding..... I had a conversation with a man who was and is today known as one of the most talented linebreeders of recent times. He told me he used a linebred line and sold many darn good bulls out of the line to neighboring commercial cattle producers. He then outcrossed the line onto new, hotter bloodlines through AI and ran into severe genetic problems. He was discouraged and kicking himself for ever moving away from that previous linebred line. He recalled a man he sold a bull to many years earlier out of that linebred line and he had recently talked to him and he said he still had that old bull and was getting super calves from him even after breeding him back to his own daughters. He told me he decided to pay the commercial man a visit see if that bull really was inbreeding that well. He said he was a bit uneasy when he got to the commercial man's "place" as things appeared a little "backward". He told me there were piles of cattle bones stacked high and he asked me if I had ever seen the movie "Deliverance". He looked at the calves and they looked very good and he noticed there was only the one bull and he said 'so these calves are the result of breeding that bull back to his daughters?' and the commercial man responded 'well, this is the second time, these calves are the result of breeding that bull back to his daughters daughters who were sired by him...' So the linebreeder bought the bull back and reintroduced the bloodline back into his purebred herd and did very, very well with them. Yes, it was in Missouri.

 

[3waycross]

Inbreeding: You had to walk to town.

Linebreeding: You had a ride to town.

Outbreeding: You had a ride to Missouri.

Be careful. I think I may resemble that remark.. My ma's folks took my father to Missouri to meet the relatives and in spite of that trip he still married her. He did tell me once it was a real eye opener for a kid that never got off the farm much till he went to college.

He told me once that he still remembers his first chigger very fondly.LOLOLOL

 

[Alan]

This should be interesting, this question has been posted before over the years and to me still lots of opinions.

If I understand it correctly line breeding is two not so close relatives, such as grandsire can be grandsire in the top and bottom of the pedigree. Also I'm under the impression that half siblings is considered line breeding.

Inbreeding would be closer relatives, such as father and daughter, mother and son full siblings.

Let's see how close I am.
Alan

Alan you need to read it again. He is NOT talking about cows. What you suggest is not inbreeding it's incest.

Stick to your guns or it' s just CS

Alan

 

[KMacGinley]

Here is what I think...

If the genes are good, it concentrates them.

If the genes are bad, it concentrates them.

An outcross or breeding two unrelated animals together gives a boost of performance perhaps, but also provides offspring with little or no consistency, which is of no use whatsoever if you are trying to attain a certain type with consistency.

The objective of linebreeding would be to use the resulting bulls to breed to a complimentary but different breed of cattle to produce maximum heterosis and pass on the type.

If I was a purebred breeder and thought my genetics were good, I would be linebreeding.

If I was a commercial producer I would be crossbreeding.

 

[Julian]

The only true difference between inbreeding and linebreeding is the degree of risk one is willing to assume in relation to his/her selection abilities and selection availabilities. Everything else is just BS. If you need a good coffeeshop conversaton bring up inbreeding vs. linebreeding. If you goal is to increase homozygosity this is all one needs to understand. The closer a person breeds the higher the risk of some undesirable parts on an animal's DNA is going to surface. If you don't want to assume so much risk then don't breed so close. If there are no negative parts of an animal's DNA then the risk is even reduced further.

Here's a link to something I wrote that may share more of my perspective of this. You can agree or disagree, either is fine with me.
Look for the article titled "Technobabble"
https://sites.google.com/site/steadfastbeef/parentstock-perspectives

 

[gbpuebloeden]

Linebreeding is crossing one (sire or dam) line with the same line, explainig it "we have a xx per xx sire line 3/4 removed, or an xx per xx dam line 3/5 removed", always to a certain individual. Inbreeding is breeding an individual to a very close kin individual, as full brothers, half brothers, cousins, uncles, etc., explained as 1 x 2, 2 x 2, 2 x 3, etc., everything is acceptable in homocigoting the pure-breds, looking for the best fenotype posible using all the new available elements (EPD, etc.) that are at hand, looking for the most acceptable genotype. Don't need Einstein to explain the evident, all is relative... GB.

 

[alexfarms]

Linebreeding is crossing one (sire or dam) line with the same line, explainig it "we have a xx per xx sire line 3/4 removed, or an xx per xx dam line 3/5 removed", always to a certain individual. Inbreeding is breeding an individual to a very close kin individual, as full brothers, half brothers, cousins, uncles, etc., explained as 1 x 2, 2 x 2, 2 x 3, etc., everything is acceptable in homocigoting the pure-breds, looking for the best fenotype posible using all the new available elements (EPD, etc.) that are at hand, looking for the most acceptable genotype. Don't need Einstein to explain the evident, all is relative... GB.

That is a unique and interesting way to describe it.

 

[3waycross]

I was always told that Linebreeding is a cross between relatives that improves the offspring
and Inbreeding is a cross between relatives that has ill effects on the offspring

so in short it is called Linebreeding when it works and Inbreeding when it doesn't

So from my limited observation most of the inbreeding has happened in Arkansas and a few other southern states

Crack me up. Ya'll still think this thread was supposed to be about cattle :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[Idaman]

If we said that sire daughter matings in humans was done only through AI then would there be less aversion to it? Does the repulsion come from the live mating versus the AI mating? :???:

 

[3waycross]

If we said that sire daughter matings in humans was done only through AI then would there be less aversion to it? Does the repulsion come from the live mating versus the AI mating? :???:

Thanks! you just made me puke on my computer.

 

[upfrombottom]

Inbreeding: You had to walk to town.

Linebreeding: You had a ride to town.

Outbreeding: You had a ride to Missouri.

I would like to add: By the time I reached puberty, I had my own ride.

 

[Beef11]

Most of the Pioneering breeders (not just cattle) are people who have developed a line of cattle that are very good and very consistent. These breeders also produce cattle that sire very good calves. The breeders are successful because these cattle are somewhat unique to their breeding program. All of these things are accomplished through linebreeding. Most of the multipliers buy genetics from these breeders. Linebreeding is a great tool but you should read the manual before operating.

 

[plumber_greg]

I hate this thread, I can't think of anything to say. I'll work on it today. gs

 

[CKC1586]

The only reason I see why linebreeding doesn't work in people is because its frowned upon if you cull hard enough.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :clap: :clap:

 

[40-4171]

My Dad was a master linebreeder in my opinion. He said it is the way you find out if the genetics of your cattle are good or there is a problem. He bred sons to their dams on various occasions with good results. Dad was not one to cover a problem. He wanted to know and eliminate it if possible. That is what happened with the hairless D-4's. Because of his intense linebreeding, the problem came to light fairly quickly. As soon as he figured out what was going on, they all went to town.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

My Dad was a master linebreeder in my opinion. He said it is the way you find out if the genetics of your cattle are good or there is a problem. He bred sons to their dams on various occasions with good results. Dad was not one to cover a problem. He wanted to know and eliminate it if possible. That is what happened with the hairless D-4's. Because of his intense linebreeding, the problem came to light fairly quickly. As soon as he figured out what was going on, they all went to town.

Please elaborate.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Where is the line when you' re breeding like that? How can you even call that a line? There's no way to produce a line.

If you are not producing a line, you are not line breeding. That is absolutely inbreeding. No way to call it anything else. Maybe circle breeding or loop breeding if you do want to call it inbreeding.

Reading through this thread makes me want to absolutely know the breeder a herd bull comes from. Its no wonder you can no longer trust cattle folks.

 

[3waycross]

Where is the line when you' re breeding like that? How can you even call that a line? There's no way to produce a line.

If you are not producing a line, you are not line breeding. That is absolutely inbreeding. No way to call it anything else. Maybe circle breeding or loop breeding if you do want to call it inbreeding.

Reading through this thread makes me want to absolutely know the breeder a herd bull comes from. Its no wonder you can no longer trust cattle folks.

Well I guess since it started out as a joke it's finishing the same way. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[novatech]

I may be completely off base here. I break down line breeding back to just plain old genes. If you constantly breed your herd for certain desirable traits, and cull hard for those that do not have the traits, for a long period of time you are IMO line breeding for that line of traits. Once you have a consistently similar calf crop then the inbreeding part of line breeding can begin. At that point one must adopt a very disciplined culling process. I believe that when one starts this process there will be a lot more culls than keepers. It's not something you want to start at retirement age.

 

[40-4171]

Where is the line when you' re breeding like that? How can you even call that a line? There's no way to produce a line.

If you are not producing a line, you are not line breeding. That is absolutely inbreeding. No way to call it anything else. Maybe circle breeding or loop breeding if you do want to call it inbreeding.

Reading through this thread makes me want to absolutely know the breeder a herd bull comes from. Its no wonder you can no longer trust cattle folks.

Of course it's inbreeding. I don't think you can have a closed herd and not inbreed. Inbreding definition is interbreeding of closely related individuals while linebreeding is interbreeding of individuals within a particular line of descent. I think they overlap, but what do I know?