Line-breeding

[purecountry]

Hey Larry, where would you find Jim Lents book on linebreeding? The search I did came up empty. I used to be an absolute enemy of crossbred bulls and linebreeding of any kind. I thought the old F-1 cow X Terminal sire was the only way to go. But the more I work with my 'elite' cow families of my commercial herd to get consistent replacements, the more I'm tempted to use an F-1 Galloway X Angus bull out of one of my best cows. Keep in mind I'm breeding for type - structure, flesh and function - all physical traits. Some of you might say it's mongrels when it's 'just commercial cows', but I want to try it as an 'experiment' shall we say.

Just looking for suggestions from those who have done it. I've been selecting for cattle that function well on our native grass, hard winters, and hill country. That means deep-bodied, thick, easy-fleshing in all conditions with no creep or pampering, excellent feet and trouble free udders. I've got those things in my herd, I just want a herd full of 'cookie-cutter' cows, consistent in their functional traits as well as their physical ones.

So, would linebreeding help?

 

[showme]

I got a line bred 314C heifer she sure has done some good.

 

[andybob]

Is it your intention to develop your herd into a closed breed, or to continue to bring in new bulls including F1 bulls where appropriate? What we reffered to as linebreeding was the use of bulls with a common ancestry to the cows [same bloodline] to fix desireable characteristics. To select the desireable characteristics in a closed herd would require a long term programme at the loss of heterosis and careful planning to prevent the negative effects of inbreeding.

 

[Larry Sansom]

Hey Larry, where would you find Jim Lents book on linebreeding? The search I did came up empty. I used to be an absolute enemy of crossbred bulls and linebreeding of any kind. I thought the old F-1 cow X Terminal sire was the only way to go. But the more I work with my 'elite' cow families of my commercial herd to get consistent replacements, the more I'm tempted to use an F-1 Galloway X Angus bull out of one of my best cows. Keep in mind I'm breeding for type - structure, flesh and function - all physical traits. Some of you might say it's mongrels when it's 'just commercial cows', but I want to try it as an 'experiment' shall we say.

Just looking for suggestions from those who have done it. I've been selecting for cattle that function well on our native grass, hard winters, and hill country. That means deep-bodied, thick, easy-fleshing in all conditions with no creep or pampering, excellent feet and trouble free udders. I've got those things in my herd, I just want a herd full of 'cookie-cutter' cows, consistent in their functional traits as well as their physical ones.

So, would linebreeding help?

Jim can be reached at [email protected] The last I heard, he has new books on order - last ones are sold out

Very sharp man - with a very good book. The basic deal for you now is to select the best sons of the best cows that show all the traits you want and start breeding those half brother to half sister calves. Better use a couple of bulls, so you can select against any bad triats. Selection is the hard part of the linebreeding programs. Anybody can turn in a bull to breed cows, but it takes a cattleman to know what to look for and what to get rid of in the selection process. You will find those traits you select for - and those that just come along for the ride- will be made very prepotent quickly.

 

[Larry Sansom]

One more thought on your F1 use. Remember Secretariat - the great race horse. He never did sire anything worth talking about. The perfect example of heterosis! He did have a few daughters that made decent mares - but not big $ winners. Most of this came from his decent pedigree.

Using crossbred cattle in a linebreeding program will likely extend your time to fix the type you are looking for and you will see all types of spread on the calves - since you are working with a non prepotent set of cattle to begin with. It can happen- but get ready for a long time invested, and make critical culling decisions early- or you will never get what you are looking for in your lifetime.

 

[purecountry]

I have to ask, at the risk of being chastised over some of my earlier comments on Black Herefords and selecting for type, but if my herd - although crossbreds by breed - have been culled strictly and heavily for 10 years for a specific type and function, how 'non-prepotent' do you think my cattle really are?

I know 10 years is nothing compared to the 100-200 it's taken to develop the 4 breeds currently in my herd, but just give me your opinion if you could.

 

[Larry Sansom]

I would have very little idea But, I would say you can find out by starting your linebreeding program. You will be better than most of the show jocks that are chasing the fad cattle since you are at least selecting for a type and not blindly looking for EPD numbers.

 

[andybob]

All breeds started by selecting from a mongrel or selected hybrid, it can and has been done on a smaller scale by stockmen wanting something not found in existing breeds,adaptability being the most common trait cited. Accurate recording to track bloodlines and in a small herd, a quick turnover of bulls is practised to prevent inbreeding. A group in South Africa started a programme about thirty years ago so as to achieve their common goal with a much larger gene pool ,they call their genotype the tauricus.

 

[purecountry]

I know I can find the INDIVIDUAL animals carrying the traits I want in existing breeds. It's the fact that every breed has more types than Donald Trump has hair colors, that's led me to research doing this program on a more serious level. I've seen animals in every breed that were exactly the picture of a perfect structure - FOR MY NEEDS - and you think, "Damn I'd like to have a hundred like her!", or "I'd like to have a hundred cows to AI to him!". But w/our winters and hills there are 2 very overpowering needs in our cattle - hair and sound feet/legs. Black pigmentation is a close third - preference and marketing. Thus enters the Galloway.

Once I've done more reading into how I should form a breeding program, I might give it a shot. Maybe start with a top bull calf - Galloway sire, F1 Angus X Tarentaise dam - breed him to his 3/4 and 1/2 sisters, keeping track of every cross of course, then finding a Galloway bull of like type to cross them on? We'll see.