Limousins suck!

[txag]

Hmm.. I think maybe this "where'd they get the black from" is a little skewed at this point.

It may be true that a lot of breeds that didn't have black colored hides now do, and it's probably also true that there is some Angus blood somewhere back in the genetics to get that coloring, but think of of this. Maybe Simmentals (in my case) bred to Angus all those generations ago in order to improve on Angus, instead of improve Simmentals. If we were looking for Angus characteristics (besides the black hide) we'd be raising Angus instead of Simmentals.

Just my opinion :?

whatever the reason for bringing in the black gene, the fact remains that the black came from somewhere else. simmentals (& limousine) were originally red & no matter how many times you cross red animals together, you will never, ever get a black offspring.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to be contrary, I used to breed fullblood Simmentals. Many of our animals had a spot of black on them--and not a drop of angus blood (all of our cattle were horned...). I recall one fullblood calf being born (to another breeder), black, and they blood typed it 4 (count em 4) times to verify parentage and then refused to declare it fullblood because of colour. There is a thing called genetic mutations, folks, and sometimes it happens. So....although most black cattle have angus or holstein blood hiding in there somewhere, maybe not all do!

 

[TheBullLady]

lol...go Vicki! I especially like the fact that you put the dreaded "H" word in there.. I've run some bloodlines on purebreds that went back to a Holstein!

 

[Anonymous]

Just to be contrary, I used to breed fullblood Simmentals. Many of our animals had a spot of black on them--and not a drop of angus blood (all of our cattle were horned...). I recall one fullblood calf being born (to another breeder), black, and they blood typed it 4 (count em 4) times to verify parentage and then refused to declare it fullblood because of colour. There is a thing called genetic mutations, folks, and sometimes it happens. So....although most black cattle have angus or holstein blood hiding in there somewhere, maybe not all do!

Vicki,

Just to be contrary, what is the likelihood of the color gene to mutate? and what is the likelihood that all the black simmentals, maines and limis today are ancestors of a color mutation?

 

[jcarkie]

most of them that breed up have some throw backs. i have seen black simmi's and limmi's years ago before it was popular. i always heard it was from breeding up. i had a neighbor that had a black and white simmi bull twenty years ago.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to be contrary, I used to breed fullblood Simmentals. Many of our animals had a spot of black on them--and not a drop of angus blood (all of our cattle were horned...). I recall one fullblood calf being born (to another breeder), black, and they blood typed it 4 (count em 4) times to verify parentage and then refused to declare it fullblood because of colour. There is a thing called genetic mutations, folks, and sometimes it happens. So....although most black cattle have angus or holstein blood hiding in there somewhere, maybe not all do!

Vicki,

Just to be contrary, what is the likelihood of the color gene to mutate? and what is the likelihood that all the black simmentals, maines and limis today are ancestors of a color mutation?

The likelihood of ALL black simmies, maines and limos being based on a genetic mutation is zero. However, I did not ever say they were. Also, the degree of absoluteness of NO black simmies, maines or limos ever being based on a genetic mutation is equally zero.

How often does a colour mutation happen? Depends on which many factors, including the fragility of the DNA. Certain other genes will influence this, although I am not going to do cellular biology lecturing here.

Just to throw out something different...there was a Simmental bull named Polaris (which in my opinion is the ONLY line of fullblood polled simmies) and his offspring were are less muscular...and he was mutation polled. It had never been seen in Switzerland (land of simmental's origin) but occurred here. Perhaps it had happened and been slaughtered as a defect...

 

[dun]

Just to throw out something different...there was a Simmental bull named Polaris (which in my opinion is the ONLY line of fullblood polled simmies) and his offspring were are less muscular...and he was mutation polled. It had never been seen in Switzerland (land of simmental's origin) but occurred here. Perhaps it had happened and been slaughtered as a defect...

I'm glad to see that someone else believes in mutation. I don't know where people thought Polled Herefords cam from but it must happen form frequently then a color mutation. Before it was decided that it was a positive trait, "muley" herefords were butchered whenever the popped up. The same thing happened with scurred Polled Herefords.

dun

 

[Anonymous]

Just to throw out something different...there was a Simmental bull named Polaris (which in my opinion is the ONLY line of fullblood polled simmies) and his offspring were are less muscular...and he was mutation polled. It had never been seen in Switzerland (land of simmental's origin) but occurred here. Perhaps it had happened and been slaughtered as a defect...

I'm glad to see that someone else believes in mutation. I don't know where people thought Polled Herefords cam from but it must happen form frequently then a color mutation. Before it was decided that it was a positive trait, "muley" herefords were butchered whenever the popped up. The same thing happened with scurred Polled Herefords.

dun

Polled herefords and some polled simmentals developed from a mutation of the horned gene. Polled herefords developed through careful breeding and selection for the trait. Interestingly enough, there has been no color mutation in herefords.

BTW blood typing is not DNA. There have been other animals in other breeds who have blood-typed for the breed but were still kicked out because it was not considered proof-positive of ancestry.

 

[txag]

here's an interesting article on genetics & inheritance

http://www.animal.ufl.edu/ans3384/Qualitative traits.htm

to highlight some interesting points in the article to follow Vicky & Genie's points:

"The desirable aspect of the red coloration, from a genetic standpoint, is that, as a recessive, it will always "breed true." The only exception would be the segregation of very light red or cream-colored animals from some light red parents."

here's the bull Vicky was referring to:

"Angus are homozygous or nearly so for the P gene. The p+ (horned) gene appears to mutate to P at a fairly high frequency, as indicated by the periodic production of polled animals from horned parents. One recent example was the polled Simmental bull, Polaris, whose parents were both horned, fullblood Simmental. The polled mutant has also occurred in Herefords, resulting in the Polled Hereford breed, and in the Shorthorn, Holstein, and Brahman breeds. The polled gene also has been incorporated into breeds by selecting for it in successive generations of upgrading programs to horned breeds where polled cows were used as foundation dams."


"It is because of such overlap of phenogroups from one breed to another that it may be difficult to document clearly the introduction of another breed unless the reported parents and perhaps grandparents of the animal with an unusual phenogroup combination can be examined."

 

[Rain]

Hello JR, You sure hit a nerve.
I don't think you would be alone with the type of Limo's you had. 8) 8)
The difference seems to be some people are just seeing the final result (a carcase win) and ignoring the difficulties on how to get there (your on ground experience as a producer and Handler).
A Frenchman told me once how the Limo got to be what it is. What I might call a fairly sensitive switched on set of eyes,ears and feet.
Well apparently the Limo was deliberately selected for an ALERT disposition to improve its third use as a Draft animal.
In past centuries people who were close to the french villages had good access to the 'fresh milk supply' with a steady plodding type of Draft cow in the cart. That range was limited to about 3 - 5 miles, so farmers further out were not able to participate in the lucrative fresh milk market.
They required a faster animal that could trot and to do that well it needed to be able to react faster with its eyes and senses, while still remaining in control. Close stall handling can do that.
Now a days that same bunch of genetics is let rip without the manners.

 

[Craig-TX]

Hello JR, You sure hit a nerve.
I don't think you would be alone with the type of Limo's you had. 8) 8)
The difference seems to be some people are just seeing the final result (a carcase win) and ignoring the difficulties on how to get there (your on ground experience as a producer and Handler).
A Frenchman told me once how the Limo got to be what it is. What I might call a fairly sensitive switched on set of eyes,ears and feet.
Well apparently the Limo was deliberately selected for an ALERT disposition to improve its third use as a Draft animal.
In past centuries people who were close to the french villages had good access to the 'fresh milk supply' with a steady plodding type of Draft cow in the cart. That range was limited to about 3 - 5 miles, so farmers further out were not able to participate in the lucrative fresh milk market.
They required a faster animal that could trot and to do that well it needed to be able to react faster with its eyes and senses, while still remaining in control. Close stall handling can do that.
Now a days that same bunch of genetics is let rip without the manners.

Sounds like the French themselves. They've got attitude, aloof snobbery and mercurial temperament, and nothing but history to back it up. Couldn't resist that one.

Craig-TX

 

[Michelle Pankonien]

Well If everyone would step back and look at history to see who had the highest marbling and now geneticly marked we can test for this

SHORTHORNS have the highest index for MARBLING NOT ANGUS!!!

So why don't we all raise Shorthorns?, it is the inconsistence of the fool order buyers, what else looks like a shorthorn minus the long hair, Hum?

Dairy cross cattle, Simentals, Longhorns etc. etc.

So Solid black gives the uneducated (usually) orderbuyer the easy way out, if it is solid Black it probably has lots of angus in it and will grade, even if it wont yield worth a flip, the darn thing will grade

Until we sell a carcass based on yeild and grade, we will never see a change in "the buying cattle for dumbies" process that is practiced today


Angus Angus Angus Blah Blah Blah, if they were so darn wonderful, there would not be any other breed of cattle, and a Limi angus cross is great, it adds butt to that breed of NO ASS AT ALL Angus

 

[la4angus]

Well If everyone would step back and look at history to see who had the highest marbling and now geneticly marked we can test for this

SHORTHORNS have the highest index for MARBLING NOT ANGUS!!!

So why don't we all raise Shorthorns?, it is the inconsistence of the fool order buyers, what else looks like a shorthorn minus the long hair, Hum?

Dairy cross cattle, Simentals, Longhorns etc. etc.

So Solid black gives the uneducated (usually) orderbuyer the easy way out, if it is solid Black it probably has lots of angus in it and will grade, even if it wont yield worth a flip, the darn thing will grade

Until we sell a carcass based on yeild and grade, we will never see a change in "the buying cattle for dumbies" process that is practiced today


Angus Angus Angus Blah Blah Blah, if they were so darn wonderful, there would not be any other breed of cattle, and a Limi angus cross is great, it adds butt to that breed of NO ASS AT ALL Angus

Everyone seems to enjoy bashing the Order Buyers.
That is just what they are "Order Buyers". They buy cattle to fill their orders. If the feedyard manager or backgrounder tell them to leave a certain type, breed or kind of cattle alone, that is what they do, "leave them alone" or they will be looking for another way to make a living.
They do not buy a certain type, breed or kind of cattle at a discount because they can. They buy them because they had the high bid on them, which means no one else at that particular sale on that particular day was willing to pay any more for them.
Instead of bitching them out you should thank them for buying them, otherwise they would have brought less because no one else wanted them for a higher price..

 

[Anonymous]

The cream rises to the top.
I am not a angus breeder but my cattle are 35 to 40% angus.
Maybe in my lifetime shorthorns or pieds will rise to the top...
I try to raise the best cattle I can, to increase demand for our product, and I try to raise cattle that the buyers want. Pretty simple.
Hillbilly

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

I'm glad there is so much breed variety to choose from in the cattle business, even though it seems to sometimes make emotions run too high, and they all seem to have plusses and minuses.

In the last two years I've had my first direct experiences with both Angus (black) and Limo (red) bulls. I have Beefmaster and tigerstripe cows and bought an Angus bull that looked darn good but he turned out to be unsatisfactory on several accounts: libido, ability to thrive in my environment with no better treatment than the cows, and very average at best progeny --- and he's no longer around. But I'm sure as heck not knocking Angus on the basis of my one direct experience; that particular bull just turned out to be a lot sorrier than he looked when bought. I hope my new Brangus bull will yield better results, and I know already that his apparent libido is higher!

Have three real good looking Limo/Beefmaster cross calves, thanks to the neighbor's big Limo bull that walked through a pretty fair fence and sort of shoved my young Angus bull out of the way, so to speak. I guess he was the stereotypical Limo bull. He got pretty ornery with me and had been a constant source of grief for the neighbor and roamed all over creation (not just to my place) so he too has gone to the great meat grinder in the sky. But he was a real impressive looking bull, with a helluva butt, and sure threw some nice calves over the last few years. The one bull calf I have out of him has a helluva butt too, and he reminds me of "Teddy Bear" over on Michelle's website. Yet all three of these calves, at least for now, have very Hereford-like dispositions (perhaps owing to their Beefmaster side?).

I've seen a lot of Angus calves over the years, and I sure don't think that I'd say that they have no arse at all. There are a lot sorry looking cattle around in all breeds, maybe Michelle just hasn't seen enough of the good Angus. But if I had my druthers I'd like to make make all order buyers and their clients color blind, and then I might try to develop a strain of burnt orange Shorthorns!

 

[Anonymous]

they do suck more money with that than any other breed kiss my a** Brangus is the best breed.

 

[Anonymous]

Stop Stop!! Limousin dont suck they ****i* suck! they are useless wellbalanced my a**. that is probly the worst breed alive no corretness,unfemine, ugly, bad keepers, no money prices are to low. I no this because i have 2 donors they bad keepers alway have to feed them I own a Grand Champion 2003 heifer i bought her for $2,800. She died in 6-8 weeks.

 

[showme]

they do suck because Brangus is the best

 

[CopeMan]

Stop Stop!! Limousin dont suck they be nice* suck! they are useless wellbalanced my a**. that is probly the worst breed alive no corretness,unfemine, ugly, bad keepers, no money prices are to low. I no this because i have 2 donors they bad keepers alway have to feed them I own a Grand Champion 2003 heifer i bought her for $2,800. She died in 6-8 weeks.

You probably let her die. I bet you dont know nothing about cattle.

 

[Ellie May]

I am not a fan of the breed but surely not all are bad..
Ellie May