Light Weight Calf Value ?

[Stocker Steve]

It appears that there is a strong demand for 3 and 4 weight calves in some areas. It calculates out to value of gain in the 80s and 90s. What is driving this optimism? Large cutter bulls would seem to be a better value?

 

[RanchMan90]

I agree. I was buying lightweight heifers til a few weeks ago @ $1.30, now a guy will take them to $1.75. He keeps them for nearly a full year, he sold last year's calves on the last little uptick of prices. He figures his cog is lower that way, I couldn't pencil it out past $1.30. Cuttin bulls look like a smart buy @ $1 hoping they bring $1 @ feeder weight, I would hedge them cause there's a good chance they could bring .90 then. Im going long with SS bred cows for the same money.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I was buying light, colored, heifers for about $1.15. But, prices have gone up.
Feeder futures drop off in January. Not sure what that means. May be a glut of calves being held till then?

 

[RanchMan90]

Perhaps the typical post holiday dead of winter slump? Lightweights should go out as feeders in May, with board price @ $1.15 today. Not a bad margin with cheap feed. I certainly can't raise a lightweight to 600 lbs for the price of a cuttin bull though.

 

[js1234]

Out here its because they fit the two season grass programs. If a Fall/Winter stocker operator, or two season stocker operator ranches' country isn't filled up yet, it's time to do so.
I'm working to finishing filling up our country, I got 5 truck loads of lighter, two season type calves bought today.
I bought 3 loads of cattle today out of the country:
1 load (90 head) of fancy Red Angus steers, weaned, 525lbs., Nov. 15th. delivery, Vac. 45. $130/cwt. FOB sellers corrals.
1 load (95 head) of better than average but not quite fancy, Angus/Angus X steers, bawlers, 500lbs., Nov. 10th. delivery, Vac 34. $131/cwt. FOB sellers corrals.
1 load (112 head) of better than average but not quite fancy, Angus/Angus X heifers, bawlers, 425lbs., Nov. 10th. delivery, Vac 34. $127/cwt. FOB sellers corrals.
The first load are the light end of the steers of a reputation Northern Nevada high desert ranch. We have bought these steers 15 of the last 20 years. Typically own them all the way through due to their superior feed yard performance.
The second two loads are both off the same ranch, basically their calf crop less cuts and replacements, we haven't bought these calves before.
All these calves were bought off Northern Nevada ranches.
I also bought a 2 load deal on the video today:
1 load (202 head) of fancy, Char/Angus X heifers, weaned, 475lbs., Nov. 9th. delivery, Vac. 45. $126.50/cwt. FOB sellers corrals.
These heifers are the middle cut weight wise of the heifer crop off a reputation Eastern Oregon high desert ranch. We have bought these cattle several times.
They will come to our California ranches for the season and then ship to one of our Wyoming ranches in early May. Depending on market conditions, we will either sell them off those Wyoming ranches for October 2017 delivery or put them on feed and make them Feb. 2018 Fats.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Light calves are cheaper here than farther south, but our grazing is about done for the year. Most folks here sell calves when the grass runs out or else back ground them on corn silage.

Latest approach by some is too retain May/June born calves on forage, take them back to grass the next spring, and then sell them as heavy feeders about August. Idea is you can increase $/acre and increase stocking flexibility vs. running 100% cow/calf pairs. What do you think about this?

 

[RanchMan90]

Average today was 338 lbs @ $1.27 on every #1-1.5 steer calf today between 285-400 lbs. Looks pretty feasible. How does color or Brahman influence affect basis on hedged feeder cattle?

 

[Muddy]

Last Wed sales, char X feeders didn't do well at the sales, shorthorn influenced feeders suffered even worse than in previous years.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Just ask yourself why would a buyer want to buy a sorry calf at these low prices? Most order buyes I've talked to get paid on the weight that they buy.

 

[RanchMan90]

I agree, I don't. But what kind of slide do colored cattle go off of when hedging feeder cattle? The price gap is a lot slimmer when the weight goes up (as in board price)

 

[True Grit Farms]

I agree, I don't. But what kind of slide do colored cattle go off of when hedging feeder cattle? The price gap is a lot slimmer when the weight goes up

When the price was $2.00 for good steers and $1.85 for bulls, and colored up calves were $.15 to $.20 cents less everyone was happy. Now that good steers are $1.05 and bulls are $.80 and colored up stuff with horns are in the $.60's those people who don't have quality are really complaining. There was several folks on here doing good with longhorn cross calves. Now their not so happy and a bunch of folks told them what was coming.

 

[Muddy]

I agree, I don't. But what kind of slide do colored cattle go off of when hedging feeder cattle? The price gap is a lot slimmer when the weight goes up

When the price was $2.00 for good steers and $1.85 for bulls, and colored up calves were $.15 to $.20 cents less everyone was happy. Now that good steers are $1.05 and bulls are $.80 and colored up stuff with horns are in the $.60's those people who don't have quality are really complaining. There was several folks on here doing good with longhorn cross calves. Now their not so happy and a bunch of folks told them what was coming.

I talked to a member with longhorn crosses. Their Char sired calves are selling at same price as a black feeder at their local sale barn and I guess they do alright at this moment. That said, at our local sale barns it's clearly that black hided calves rule the sales last Wed, regardless of quality of the calf. It shows you that the buyers can change their preferences and they have no interest in anything that is not black and polled that day. Reds, CharX, RWF and other colors are docked for 10-15 cents less than blacks that day. Straight longhorn prices didn't change that much during high prices, so I don't know why we are talking about longhorns.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I agree, I don't. But what kind of slide do colored cattle go off of when hedging feeder cattle? The price gap is a lot slimmer when the weight goes up

When the price was $2.00 for good steers and $1.85 for bulls, and colored up calves were $.15 to $.20 cents less everyone was happy. Now that good steers are $1.05 and bulls are $.80 and colored up stuff with horns are in the $.60's those people who don't have quality are really complaining. There was several folks on here doing good with longhorn cross calves. Now their not so happy and a bunch of folks told them what was coming.

I talked to a member with longhorn crosses. Their Char sired calves are selling at same price as a black feeder at their local sale barn and I guess they do alright at this moment. That said, at our local sale barns it's clearly that black hided calves rule the sales last Wed, regardless of quality of the calf. It shows you that the buyers can change their preferences and they have no interest in anything that is not black and polled that day. Reds, CharX, RWF and other colors are docked for 10-15 cents less than blacks that day. Straight longhorn prices didn't change that much during high prices, so I don't know why we are talking about longhorns.

Talks cheap :bs: Never seen it happen in the southeast and it won't. Must be some real dumb azz cattle buyers and feedlots in this country somewhere.

 

[RanchMan90]

When the price was $2.00 for good steers and $1.85 for bulls, and colored up calves were $.15 to $.20 cents less everyone was happy. Now that good steers are $1.05 and bulls are $.80 and colored up stuff with horns are in the $.60's those people who don't have quality are really complaining. There was several folks on here doing good with longhorn cross calves. Now their not so happy and a bunch of folks told them what was coming.

I talked to a member with longhorn crosses. Their Char sired calves are selling at same price as a black feeder at their local sale barn and I guess they do alright at this moment. That said, at our local sale barns it's clearly that black hided calves rule the sales last Wed, regardless of quality of the calf. It shows you that the buyers can change their preferences and they have no interest in anything that is not black and polled that day. Reds, CharX, RWF and other colors are docked for 10-15 cents less than blacks that day. Straight longhorn prices didn't change that much during high prices, so I don't know why we are talking about longhorns.

Talks cheap :bs: Never seen it happen in the southeast and it won't. Must be some real dumb azz cattle buyers and feedlots in this country somewhere.

Y'all both have a good point. But I'm talking about futures/board pricing on a pot load of 850 lb feeders that are within 50 lbs of each other. Going off the board price, which I know they won't bring that. What is the price slide for #2 and #3 feeders (not longhorn or dairy)?

 

[Muddy]

When the price was $2.00 for good steers and $1.85 for bulls, and colored up calves were $.15 to $.20 cents less everyone was happy. Now that good steers are $1.05 and bulls are $.80 and colored up stuff with horns are in the $.60's those people who don't have quality are really complaining. There was several folks on here doing good with longhorn cross calves. Now their not so happy and a bunch of folks told them what was coming.

I talked to a member with longhorn crosses. Their Char sired calves are selling at same price as a black feeder at their local sale barn and I guess they do alright at this moment. That said, at our local sale barns it's clearly that black hided calves rule the sales last Wed, regardless of quality of the calf. It shows you that the buyers can change their preferences and they have no interest in anything that is not black and polled that day. Reds, CharX, RWF and other colors are docked for 10-15 cents less than blacks that day. Straight longhorn prices didn't change that much during high prices, so I don't know why we are talking about longhorns.

Talks cheap :bs: Never seen it happen in the southeast and it won't. Must be some real dumb azz cattle buyers and feedlots in this country somewhere.

:roll: you are always looking down at longhorns as you always do. How's your chromed up calves doing?

 

[True Grit Farms]

I talked to a member with longhorn crosses. Their Char sired calves are selling at same price as a black feeder at their local sale barn and I guess they do alright at this moment. That said, at our local sale barns it's clearly that black hided calves rule the sales last Wed, regardless of quality of the calf. It shows you that the buyers can change their preferences and they have no interest in anything that is not black and polled that day. Reds, CharX, RWF and other colors are docked for 10-15 cents less than blacks that day. Straight longhorn prices didn't change that much during high prices, so I don't know why we are talking about longhorns.

Talks cheap :bs: Never seen it happen in the southeast and it won't. Must be some real dumb azz cattle buyers and feedlots in this country somewhere.

:roll: you are always looking down at longhorns as you always do. How's your chromed up calves doing?

Good, but their chrome came from a Simmental bull that weighed 2215 lbs at 4 years old in his working clothes. And not some hatched azz, scrawny, short backed Longhorn cow. But with that being said even when the prices were great his chromed up calves brought $.30 less a pound. The calves were called spotted at the sale barn on my weight ticket. That's why we're eating and selling the spotted calves as farm raised beef, sold one yesterday to a couple from Atlanta. I really don't want to deal with the public, but I'm to cheap to give my cattle away.
It still puzzles me how you can get a spotted calf from a Hereford bull. And the same cows bred to an Angus or Simmental bull had black calves. I'm going back with Angus bulls this year so no more spotted calves here...hopefully.
Muddy you have a good grasp on the cattle business, just don't believe everything you hear.

 

[Muddy]

Talks cheap :bs: Never seen it happen in the southeast and it won't. Must be some real dumb azz cattle buyers and feedlots in this country somewhere.

:roll: you are always looking down at longhorns as you always do. How's your chromed up calves doing?

Good, but their chrome came from a Simmental bull that weighed 2215 lbs at 4 years old in his working clothes. And not some hatched azz, scrawny, short backed Longhorn cow. But with that being said even when the prices were great his chromed up calves brought $.30 less a pound. The calves were called spotted at the sale barn on my weight ticket. That's why we're eating and selling the spotted calves as farm raised beef, sold one yesterday to a couple from Atlanta. I really don't want to deal with the public, but I'm to cheap to give my cattle away.
It still puzzles me how you can get a spotted calf from a Hereford bull. And the same cows bred to an Angus or Simmental bull had black calves. I'm going back with Angus bulls this year so no more spotted calves here...hopefully.
Muddy you have a good grasp on the cattle business, just don't believe everything you hear.

Perhaps you should not making any assumptions? It's obviously that chromed up calves (Longhorn or not) are getting killed at the sale barn and I never seen a spotted calf topping the sales ever.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I enjoy the cattle industry and support it. With that be said I usually attend at least one seminar a month concerning the cattle industry, and countless sales every year. So I don't assume much, if I have a question I'll ask, otherwise I know what I'm talking about or I keep my mouth shut and listen. Learning to listen is very important, but learning who to listen to is more important. IMO

 

[js1234]

Ranchman:
I think you'll find that a steer several cuts below a good one, on the plainer end will get quite a discount right now. If they aren't poor framed of carrying unattractive condition, I'd look at feeding them. If they have enough quality of kind to them that they can convert at a reasonable COG, they are the type that is screaming to be fed right now. The same price that you will see offered for them will almost certainly have a break-even that allows them to be hedged out in the fats right now for a profit.
This of course is assuming that while they are lesser cattle, they aren't junk that won't feed right.

 

[js1234]

As far as longhorns go, I buy ALOT of longhorn cows on order for a very large ranching and feeding family that also owns an interest in a large killplant. They breed these cows to Char bulls (which our order buying company also buys for them) and retain these calves all the way through and sell the beef into their non grade-related label that the killplant markets some of their beef through. While they run lots of good cows on their cow ranches throughout the West and Midwest, owning several thousand longhorn cows on the lower value ground fits their program very well. I have been impressed with both how the cross calves look as fats and how the closeouts look once they are hanging on a rail.
All of that said, as I mentioned in another thread last week, front end cattle are way too cheap right now to buy an inferior animal, unless they are nasty cheap.
While the fall in prices doesn't feel as shocking for longhorns as the dollars per head wasn't as high as good cattle, it's pretty severe. When things were really good, Longhorn cows would cost $1,100/head or so to send to my guys. Those same cows are certainly under $650 now.
My family has always had about 100 longhorn mother cows of our own, part for nostalgia, now partly to preserve some old genetics that are nearly lost as the longhorn registry has basically thrown purity out the window, but mostly to keep us in horned cattle to rope. The recreation use has always basically been the only market outlet for those straight longhorn calves other than the very best of the registered stock, if one is lucky. Fortunately, the recreation cattle market, while correlated on its most basic level to the real cattle market, has much less volatility and with a few peaks and valleys, is basically always working it's way up right along with the inflation of the cost of any other unnecessary good or service. I've never really found it to be a very good business but it has basically had the longhorns pay their own way and we rope a lot and it allows us to always have 30-40 head of roping cattle on hand for our own purposes.