Lie, cheat and steal: high school ethics surveyed

[Lammie]

Kids cheat in school because they are rewarded for it. Kids here that get good grades get additional days off, don't have to take final exams, and get all the attention. Kids in college get the good jobs when they make the good grades. Those are the people who you want to do your banking and be your doctors and attorneys. Think about it. There is tremendous pressure put on making grades, as opposed to learning something. All they want is the letter on the grade report. Make an A and everyone's happy.

No one takes into account that we learn by experience and that we really learn a lot through failure. And we don't allow our kids to fail at anything.

Everyone gets a trophy.

We've dumbed down our curriculum with No Child Left Behind, which I sincerely hope our new President abandons for the bad experiment it is, to the point that we practically spoon feed the kids, then they are only answers to a test, not real learning.

In other words, grades have replaced real, teachable moments. Teachers aren't allowed to teach and to really reach out to kids because it isn't on the TAKS.

I believe that if we would allow teachers to teach and kids to truly learn, that students would not feel the need or the urge to cheat. Of course there will always be cheaters, but I think it would decrease.

 

[BeefmasterB]

We've dumbed down our curriculum with No Child Left Behind, which I sincerely hope our new President abandons for the bad experiment it is, to the point that we practically spoon feed the kids, then they are only answers to a test, not real learning.

I agree that the current project stinks but what is the new President proposing? Parents need to be forced into the act of working with their kids.

 

[TexasBred]

Heck Lammie...we were exempt from finals if we had a high enough semester average when I was in high school back in the dark ages. We can blame who we want but the motivation and real education starts long before school age and it starts at HOME.

 

[Lammie]

There's just too much emphasis placed on grades. They are a good measurement and all, but they don't necessarily indicate that one has learned anything. If everyone just took the time to read to their kids, shop with them, (the grocery store is a fantastic place to introduce math skills, sets, subsets, reading labels...) and involving them in everyday activities, then they would go to school more ready to learn. Just observing nature, the occasional trip to the library, thirty minutes a day! will help to prepare kids for school. And I'm not talking about teaching a three year old French, either. I enjoyed doing those things with my sons. It is why I had kids to start with. That, and I wanted a good excuse to be able to go see Disney movies.

 

[john250]

There's just too much emphasis placed on grades.

I am sure glad to hear this, because I never made Phi Beta Kappa.

 

[grannysoo]

Most all of the problems stem from home life or lack thereof. When the children are not raised correctly at home, they are not going to behave or perform correctly away from home.

Blaming the teachers and others is nothing but trying to focus attention away from the true problem:

Parents and home life.

 

[Lammie]

Most all of the problems stem from home life or lack thereof. When the children are not raised correctly at home, they are not going to behave or perform correctly away from home.

Blaming the teachers and others is nothing but trying to focus attention away from the true problem:

Parents and home life.

I totally agree with that. My complaint is with the testing that is used to measure school performance. Teachers have to teach for the test and it really detracts from their ability to make learning interesting. There are a lot of good teachers out there who are held back by a state's demand for compliance in test scores. You get government too involved in the learning process and it will booger things up every time. There's a whole industry that has sprung up over testing, not to mention unnecessary state employees. I hate sitting through those training sessions. It's a lot more fun to get out and dig in the mud. We learn by doing, not by memorizing facts. There has to be a balance. Kids cheat because they want to get that grade and that's all that matters anymore.

 

[backhoeboogie]

real education starts long before school age and it starts at HOME.

Like parents paying their phone bills etc.

Don't set the right example at home what do we expect?

 

[Lammie]

real education starts long before school age and it starts at HOME.

Like parents paying their phone bills etc.

Don't set the right example at home what do we expect?

I think it is a good thing to show your kids that sometimes bills are wrong and the correct way to complain about it. I was overcharged for cable a couple of weeks ago and my son learned how to stay on hold forever...

 

[CattleHand]

The problem is not the teachers or the schools. The problem is parents blaming the teachers and the schools.

I disagree angie. Im a sophmore in college right now. Students can cheat (especially in high school) because teachers dont care. Its alot easiar to let the guy you sit next to study all night and look off of him. I sat in the back in Calc class in high school and during the test they would lean over and pretty much borrow each others papers. Im sure the teacher saw she just never wanted to enforce the rules. of course true education does begin at home. Being taught how to work is a big part of it and being taught you dont get everything easily.

How many people here do the hard thing on a daily basis when there is an easier way with no reprucusions? I think that is what cheating has basically become. Of course they get a wake up call in college. I dont see many people cheating because if you cheat you get kicked out.

 

[GMN]

I think there are bad kids, bad parents and bad teachers. I think the school systems have drastically changed over the years, I see it with my own kids. I went to my sons Parent Teacher Conference and she told me that there was 4 tests that the whole class did horrible on in Math, so she decided to drop all the test scores, so everyone would appear to get a better grade. What she really was doing though is making herself look like a better teacher than she really is. She isn't doing those kids any favors, by just passing them when they did not earn the grade. I was kind of caught off guard by this attitude. Its all over, even in the High School where my son goes, they are more concerned with making rules so they can't use their cell phones, than doing their jobs, that is what we pay taxes for isn't it? They are there to teach our kids. We as parents take on a big part of their education, but I do think the schools need to do their part better also.

I think for the most part most kids are honest, and do not cheat, maybe in the bigger cities, or the ones who have parents, who expect them to go to Harvard, etc... but I do not believe that as a rule kids cheat and steal.

GMN

GMN

 

[Brandonm22]

My complaint is with the testing that is used to measure school performance. Teachers have to teach for the test and it really detracts from their ability to make learning interesting. There are a lot of good teachers out there who are held back by a state's demand for compliance in test scores. You get government too involved in the learning process and it will booger things up every time. There's a whole industry that has sprung up over testing, not to mention unnecessary state employees. I hate sitting through those training sessions. It's a lot more fun to get out and dig in the mud. We learn by doing, not by memorizing facts. There has to be a balance. Kids cheat because they want to get that grade and that's all that matters anymore.

I would much rather have No Child Left Behind and all the testing than the chaos it replaced. I would much rather the teachers teach to the test than go off in left field with their own goofy tangents OR (as many did) teach nothing at all. The tests let you compare your school and your kid (and his teacher) with the national norms and with other schools in the community. I would prefer a much much more stringent system imposed with each day's lessons dictated by the curriculum. NCLB's main flaw is it didn't punish bad teachers and bad schools enough and the states have too much wiggle room in the testing.

 

[Brandonm22]

they are more concerned with making rules so they can't use their cell phones, than doing their jobs, that is what we pay taxes for isn't it? They are there to teach our kids.

The silly cell phone fetish some systems have never has made any sense to me. You got girls dressed up like street walkers in the Phillipines, gangs, 9-28% drop out rates, a bunch of kids who couldn't pass the High School Graduation Exam tomorrow AT GUNPOINT, drugs being traded in the halls and the parking lot, and some kid gets suspended just for carrying a cell phone (like every other member of the society). What mental midgets come up with THOSE rules!!!

 

[Victoria]

I personally think that much of it comes from kids just following the direction they are getting from the business/political world anymore- anything is acceptable to make a fast buck as long as you don't get caught...
More of the Walmarting of America....
In years back a business name and reputation meant everything- now Corporate giants are putting out low quality or even products they know are defective- and do nothing until caught- then hire a cadre of attorneys to find a loophole so they can get out of trouble or keep doing it- or grease the palm of some lawmaker to change the law.... Anything to make the almighty dollar...

You see it with the current dealings on Wall Street- on the corporations importing the Chinese tainted foods and pet products- you see it with the insurance companies that use the small print on page 395 of the policy to get their attornies to back out of their coverage- etc., etc....
You can't expect kids to learn honesty, morals, character when they see so many around them trying to get rich by lying, cheating, slipping thru loopholes and using grey areas....

If you don't know where kids learn honesty, morality , and character then you are part of the problem. I've never in my life heard of a kid that credited his high moral standard (or low one) to a CEO or a politician. A friend of my kid is in college and her ethics professor on the first day of school started the class by saying in "her" ethics class there would be no mention of God. If you mention God, then she said you have to prove that God exists and that the God to which you refer is the One True God and not an impostor. That effectively eliminates any morality. You can't have morality without a moral code and you can't have a moral code without a moral code giver that is perfect , otherwise the moral code could be flawed. Situational ethics will always give you situationaly ethical people. The problem is that our society is moving from a Christian moral code to a moral code based on nothing. Lock the thread if you want. It's still true.

:clap: :clap: :clap: Great post Ollie.

 

[Lammie]

they are more concerned with making rules so they can't use their cell phones, than doing their jobs, that is what we pay taxes for isn't it? They are there to teach our kids.

The silly cell phone fetish some systems have never has made any sense to me. You got girls dressed up like street walkers in the Phillipines, gangs, 9-28% drop out rates, a bunch of kids who couldn't pass the High School Graduation Exam tomorrow AT GUNPOINT, drugs being traded in the halls and the parking lot, and some kid gets suspended just for carrying a cell phone (like every other member of the society). What mental midgets come up with THOSE rules!!!

The issue with the cell phone thing is that kids can use them to cheat by texting. And it is a distraction to the learning process in a big way. Kids can carry, they just can't use them between the hours of 8 and 3:30. I understand that kids have to be able to call parents to get them when they have practice and all that. But you would be amazed at the parents who will call their kids at school on that phone. And text them. Please. Call the school if it is an emergency. If not, leave your kid alone and let him learn. Plus, then phones get damaged or stolen and parents will hold the school responsible for it. It's a double edged sword.

The thing that bothers me most is that parents will side with their child every time without bothering to find out the facts. I want to hear both sides of the story, and the majority of the time, though not always, it is my kid who is at fault because he made dumb mistakes that all kids make, and he learns from it.

If you don't allow your kid to face consequences, how can he learn? You get people in the workforce who think they are always right, can't tell time and have never faced life without Mommy there to take up for them.

I tell the kids that rules are rules, whether you like them or not, and that they start in school so that they can grow up to be adults who realize that some things, even when they seem unnecessary, are there for a reason and you just have to go along with that. It is part of the discipline of growing up. A right of passage. You have a phone/car/kid, you have to take responsibility for it.

Problem is, a lot of these kids are raised by a whole generation who didn't take responsibility, either, and they have no idea who to raise their kids.

Parents need to be more accountable. As a school, you can only do so much. I have found that parents don't really give a rat's butt about anything their kid does at school until the Recource Officer issues that citation, and the 250.00 price to pay it. Then they get interested.

That's too bad.

 

[novatech]

I think there are bad kids, bad parents and bad teachers. I think the school systems have drastically changed over the years, I see it with my own kids. I went to my sons Parent Teacher Conference and she told me that there was 4 tests that the whole class did horrible on in Math, so she decided to drop all the test scores, so everyone would appear to get a better grade. What she really was doing though is making herself look like a better teacher than she really is. She isn't doing those kids any favors, by just passing them when they did not earn the grade. I was kind of caught off guard by this attitude. Its all over, even in the High School where my son goes, they are more concerned with making rules so they can't use their cell phones, than doing their jobs, that is what we pay taxes for isn't it? They are there to teach our kids. We as parents take on a big part of their education, but I do think the schools need to do their part better also.

I think for the most part most kids are honest, and do not cheat, maybe in the bigger cities, or the ones who have parents, who expect them to go to Harvard, etc... but I do not believe that as a rule kids cheat and steal.

GMN

GMN

I believe that on the most part we have pretty good teachers but the assumption must never be made that it is the students fault for not doing well. Nor should the parents blame the teachers or the child. When we start pointing the finger then all we do is shrug the responsibility. Having said that I believe that we as parents have to teach our children how to deal with poor teachers, bad kids. What politicians say is not always what they do. ON and on. Kids have to learn how to deal with all sorts of things that we cannot protect them from latter on in life. Good judgement is not taught in school.
On another note this makes me ill. What kind of message does this send to our kids? http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=6516429

 

[BeefmasterB]

I think there are bad kids, bad parents and bad teachers. I think the school systems have drastically changed over the years, I see it with my own kids. I went to my sons Parent Teacher Conference and she told me that there was 4 tests that the whole class did horrible on in Math, so she decided to drop all the test scores, so everyone would appear to get a better grade. What she really was doing though is making herself look like a better teacher than she really is. She isn't doing those kids any favors, by just passing them when they did not earn the grade. I was kind of caught off guard by this attitude. Its all over, even in the High School where my son goes, they are more concerned with making rules so they can't use their cell phones, than doing their jobs, that is what we pay taxes for isn't it? They are there to teach our kids. We as parents take on a big part of their education, but I do think the schools need to do their part better also.

I think for the most part most kids are honest, and do not cheat, maybe in the bigger cities, or the ones who have parents, who expect them to go to Harvard, etc... but I do not believe that as a rule kids cheat and steal.

GMN

GMN

I believe that on the most part we have pretty good teachers but the assumption must never be made that it is the students fault for not doing well. Nor should the parents blame the teachers or the child. When we start pointing the finger then all we do is shrug the responsibility. Having said that I believe that we as parents have to teach our children how to deal with poor teachers, bad kids. What politicians say is not always what they do. ON and on. Kids have to learn how to deal with all sorts of things that we cannot protect them from latter on in life. Good judgement is not taught in school.
On another note this makes me ill. What kind of message does this send to our kids? http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=6516429

One of my kids is a teacher. He gets very little choice in the grading system as he is responsible for following specific rules put forth by the school system. Who creates the system? Adminstration execs who are following orders from the federal/state government = politicians. Who elected the politicians? The parents. It all comes right back to the home.