LGD Discussion

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We are kind of on the outside of the popular thinking on spaying and neutering dogs. We aren't really fond of having that done. I understand why some people would, but doesn't appeal to us.
I think in terms of Pyrenees it's just their nature to roam and will do it anyways intact or not.
 
Yet male police K9s and military dogs are never neutered. Although the bitches are spayed. I guess it's because they come into heat twice a year and are out of commission for a few weeks.
Police and military dogs are considered reliable off leash and are still never left off leash or uncontained if there isn't an authorized handler around. Females would attract unwanted attention and be unworkable when in season if they were left intact.
 
I have always kept ranch dogs that are bitches and never spayed any on them. Never had any unwanted puppies either. Used to when people let their dogs roam the streets and neighborhoods many dogs would show up in courtship mode. But now that most people have their dogs neutered none have showed up to visit my intact bitches in many years. I prefer bitches for many reasons. One is they are very protective of home and family. Another they are not obsessed with raising their leg on things. Its like having a stallion. They will work for you but their mind is always on something else. I prefer mares :)
 
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I remember this story…amazing dog. Not sure mine could do what he did.

We watched our LGD "work" four coyotes one morning. Saw the one initially, she engaged (meaning ran at it) as it moved closer vs further away to her communications. She moved it east easily then a 2nd one came from southerly behind. She had to sense it and turned right into it swung up in an "S" as they nearly met at her head on charge. She took the high land. 1st one decided to tail back as she positioned the two together. Then a third one came from south. I was quite concerned, husband left for his gun, but she regrouped, almost assessing the situation. She let them make a semi circle as they were coming right for her. She ran right at them, charging them dead on, starting with the most easterly one turning into the three, veering back on the hill, regrouped as the fourth one made an appearance from south. She charged them again head on, turning into them then back to her hillside, pushing them together. They moved off and decided to not bother further. As soon as she had the four on the move she trailed them to her south boundary. She had the works gone by the time husband returned with his gun. She returned to her herd happy as punch and her cows all at the gates watching and almost cheering. If they could high five her it would have been a hockey bench skate by clearing! Her human family certainly gave her a lot of loves that day! So proud.

No fear or hesitation and no turning away right at them full throttle, never giving them her tail, making and moving in wide "S" like shapes and always getting her highest vantage, knowing her landscape. She is smaller than Casper I am certain. She can easily outstride a coyote.

Gentle as lambs with their herds but fierce a tigers when they mean business. I have to say I was impressed. Nervous but impressed…she knows her job and her instincts clearly know "battle position". I sometimes think the coyotes are like "this is no domestic dog", she confuses them. I think she also changes the mood of the cattle where the coyotes also are more intimidated. When she defends the herd they line up to defend her. It is interesting how LGDs work! This experience was interesting to witness.

I pray she never has to put herself in a situation like Casper - life or death but I know in my heart which decision she will make if she has to. And truly this is her life bread, it is what she loves to do! To coddle her or take that job from her would be terrible, she lives to defend, protect and nurture.
 
I remember this story…amazing dog. Not sure mine could do what he did.

We watched our LGD "work" four coyotes one morning. Saw the one initially, she engaged (meaning ran at it) as it moved closer vs further away to her communications. She moved it east easily then a 2nd one came from southerly behind. She had to sense it and turned right into it swung up in an "S" as they nearly met at her head on charge. She took the high land. 1st one decided to tail back as she positioned the two together. Then a third one came from south. I was quite concerned, husband left for his gun, but she regrouped, almost assessing the situation. She let them make a semi circle as they were coming right for her. She ran right at them, charging them dead on, starting with the most easterly one turning into the three, veering back on the hill, regrouped as the fourth one made an appearance from south. She charged them again head on, turning into them then back to her hillside, pushing them together. They moved off and decided to not bother further. As soon as she had the four on the move she trailed them to her south boundary. She had the works gone by the time husband returned with his gun. She returned to her herd happy as punch and her cows all at the gates watching and almost cheering. If they could high five her it would have been a hockey bench skate by clearing! Her human family certainly gave her a lot of loves that day! So proud.

No fear or hesitation and no turning away right at them full throttle, never giving them her tail, making and moving in wide "S" like shapes and always getting her highest vantage, knowing her landscape. She is smaller than Casper I am certain. She can easily outstride a coyote.

Gentle as lambs with their herds but fierce a tigers when they mean business. I have to say I was impressed. Nervous but impressed…she knows her job and her instincts clearly know "battle position". I sometimes think the coyotes are like "this is no domestic dog", she confuses them. I think she also changes the mood of the cattle where the coyotes also are more intimidated. When she defends the herd they line up to defend her. It is interesting how LGDs work! This experience was interesting to witness.

I pray she never has to put herself in a situation like Casper - life or death but I know in my heart which decision she will make if she has to. And truly this is her life bread, it is what she loves to do! To coddle her or take that job from her would be terrible, she lives to defend, protect and nurture.
Impressive…I'd like to see that.
 
not LGD but pretty cool thing I had happen with some sheep vs. coyotes. guard dogs must of been asleep on the porch and 2 coyotes came over to the sheep herd. had 60 uncut ram lambs around 80 lbs, 160 ewes and a bunch of lambs... i was looking from the hill , had my gun but was waitin gfor them to get closer. Those rams all ran up to the front of the pack. all the rest grouped up behind them. They formed a long single file line facing the coyotes. They yotes stopped and looked confused. They came forward again and the rams all stomped their feet in unison and took a step forward. The yotes stopped again... waited, took another couple steps.. the rams did the same thing! foot stomp and step forward.. they both did this 1 more time and then the yotes turned around and ran away. it was amazing to see.
 
Picture from last spring…I wanted to share that our Missie has earned her keep yet again. The last few nights our LGD has had moments of intense barking. Coyotes, hunting disrupting things, a bear moving through before settling for the winter, owls toying with her, just general seasonal unrest.

Last night though was fairly quiet. I woke to hear a positional bark move from the east side of the property down to our barn. A positional bark is a quieter communication that tells her charges she has moved and is resettling. Sometimes it serves as a warning to her charges that she senses danger, they should not be alarmed by her commanding presence, but she wants them to be cautious. It tells me she is moving and has decided she is needed elsewhere. I did not think anything of it, trusting her decisions. Had her bark changed to a defence or "I mean business" I would have taken her command and checked things out. It did not.

This morning my husband left before the sun was up. Missie did not come to greet him but it was cold, stormy and wintery. She likes to hunker down too and stay in her warm bed wherever that might be on the farm. By dawn she came up from the barn. I could tell she was high alert and working. I knew something was up or she had concerns. At ten a.m. our neighbours texted that a cougar killed some of their sheep last night. They are acreage dwellers and tend to do chores very late. They said they had called Fish and Wildlife. These neighbours are right across the road, too close tbh but it is what it is.

It all made sense…So proud our girl moved to a place of central defence and kept herself safe. It is not her job to look after the neighbours. She proved to us she knows "not her circus not her monkeys!" Her only job is to protect her charges and keep herself safe. A wise dog knows "when to hold 'em, knows when to fold 'em, knows when to walk away and knows when to run." I do not doubt she sensed trouble and made a very smart move to settle very tight to her herd as a last defence. The Maremma in her! Had the cougar moved into her bubble I know she would have showed up to fight, the Kuvasz in her. We would have alerted with serious barking. Last night proved our girl knows her job and knows her place with her herd, her flock, and the lay of her farm! An amazing technique and great strategy. She uses yard light, herd mentality and bubbles to defend, protect and keep things safe.

Fish and Wildlife caught the cat in a foot hold trap, and euthanized it tonight. Sad really but necessary I suppose. We start calving purebreds in about 8-10 weeks and Missie has enough work watching things once all that starts up, let alone a rogue cat! 14 sheep on 4 acres won't keep a hungry cat fed or busy for long. Thanks for reading!
 

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Your Missy sounds like my Maggie. She's an Akbash. I don't know what I'd do without her. We have chickens and cows, so she's responsible for the chickens mainly, and any calves until they're old enough to take care of themselves. The one momma cow we have left really appreciates the help, I think, and everyone gets along beautifully. We just lost Maggie's partner about a month ago to a medical oddity that nobody saw coming, and he was the real muscle of the team (he was HUGE), but Maggie is no slouch and keeps the three local coyote packs at a distance. Thank goodness we don't seem to have any cats. A few bobcats, which are no problem for her, but no cougars. I never had a better dog IN MY LIFE than my Maggie.
 
Your Missy sounds like my Maggie. She's an Akbash. I don't know what I'd do without her. We have chickens and cows, so she's responsible for the chickens mainly, and any calves until they're old enough to take care of themselves. The one momma cow we have left really appreciates the help, I think, and everyone gets along beautifully. We just lost Maggie's partner about a month ago to a medical oddity that nobody saw coming, and he was the real muscle of the team (he was HUGE), but Maggie is no slouch and keeps the three local coyote packs at a distance. Thank goodness we don't seem to have any cats. A few bobcats, which are no problem for her, but no cougars. I never had a better dog IN MY LIFE than my Maggie.
A good working dog is a valuable tool. Missie has her chickens too. They get locked up overnight and now with winter she has less work with them. But twice daily she makes a point to visit the coop while chores are being done. I will have to see if I have a chicken picture. Was Maggie's partner an Akbash too? I don't have much personal experience with that breed but I have heard great things about them. Maggie sounds equally effective at her job!
 
Yes, our Conan was also an Akbash. Great dogs. We've had mostly Pyrs before and these guys blew them all into the weeds. I love them. Her. I'm still having trouble dealing with losing Conan. We all are, especially Maggie, but bless her heart, she's still actively working, which is good.
 
Yes, our Conan was also an Akbash. Great dogs. We've had mostly Pyrs before and these guys blew them all into the weeds. I love them. Her. I'm still having trouble dealing with losing Conan. We all are, especially Maggie, but bless her heart, she's still actively working, which is good.
I am sorry for your loss. I am happy to hear Maggie is still working cause the dynamics change when they lose a partner and if she is working her mental health is positive. She likely feels your support. Comparing the Akbash to a Pyrs what have you most noticed in working style?
 
I don't know if it's the breed, the breeding line, or just the two individuals we got, because we've only had the two, but they worked all the time. Even when they slept, they weren't always asleep. The Pyrs would work at night, but they couldn't be bothered to work in the daytime. And the Akbashes look UP. Big birds and small Cessnas are not allowed over our airspace. ;) One of our Pyrs was a "bird dog" like that, but jut one. Conan was the first to start running off the birds when he was only 3 or 4 months old, and Maggie (although she was older than him) learned from him, and now she's just as good as he ever was.

Also, they come back home. They get out of the fence just as bad as the Pyrs ever did, but they don't roam for days (or a WEEK, like our first pair of Pyrs did one time). They stay on the property unless there's a close enough threat, then they go out to take care of it, and come right back. No messing around or wandering, just take care of the business at hand, and get back home.

They also watch over the new calves. The Pyrs never did, or at least I never NOTICED them. They probably were, in a general sort of way, but our Akbash actively stay with the cow and calf for the first couple of weeks, then they leave the immediate area, but if they hear anything (the calf mooing, for example), they'd run right back to check. And usually one of them had calf duty while the other one remained on "General Guard."

Maybe the most important thing of all is, THEY COME WHEN I CALL. That is seriously good. Maggie goes just outside our perimeter fence to the ridge just north of our property, from which she can see and hear for literally miles, every morning early, before the sun comes up. Two of the coyote packs live out that way, so she just goes out to a high spot and warns them to stay away. If she's still out there after it starts getting light, I can call her, and 10 minutes later, here she comes, across the pasture from the far hill, answering my call. NONE of my Pyrs would come when I called like that. None of them. They came back when they were darned good and ready.

It seems like there should be more. The Akbashes are just so much "more" dog, it seems to me. Maggie is my heart dog, for instance. She loves me like nothing else, and the feeling is mutual. She sits in front of me when I'm out in the barn after milking and presses her head against my chest while I'm loving on her, but if she hears one of the guineas make a noise, for example, she's off like a shot to make sure it's OK. I have to be mindful of where my chin is when we're hugging, because she could knock my teeth out with her big ol' Mastiff head when she pops up like that. No amount of petting or distraction from me will keep her from hearing and acting on a perceived threat, and Conan was the same way, but Maggie didn't let him get snuggles from me much. She is a very jealous dog. Conan was mostly Rich's dog (but I loved him just as much as I love Maggie). She's very possessive of me, but she'll drop me like a hot potato if she hears a coyote howl or a hawk scream.

I will never have another breed of LGD if I can help it. I hope Maggie is with me until I don't need one anymore.

Here's a picture of her, one of my favorites. It expresses her personality perfectly.

06-13-22 Maggie 02.jpg

And this was my boy, Conan:
05-26-23 Conan 01.jpg
 
I don't know if it's the breed, the breeding line, or just the two individuals we got, because we've only had the two, but they worked all the time. Even when they slept, they weren't always asleep. The Pyrs would work at night, but they couldn't be bothered to work in the daytime. And the Akbashes look UP. Big birds and small Cessnas are not allowed over our airspace. ;) One of our Pyrs was a "bird dog" like that, but jut one. Conan was the first to start running off the birds when he was only 3 or 4 months old, and Maggie (although she was older than him) learned from him, and now she's just as good as he ever was.

Also, they come back home. They get out of the fence just as bad as the Pyrs ever did, but they don't roam for days (or a WEEK, like our first pair of Pyrs did one time). They stay on the property unless there's a close enough threat, then they go out to take care of it, and come right back. No messing around or wandering, just take care of the business at hand, and get back home.

They also watch over the new calves. The Pyrs never did, or at least I never NOTICED them. They probably were, in a general sort of way, but our Akbash actively stay with the cow and calf for the first couple of weeks, then they leave the immediate area, but if they hear anything (the calf mooing, for example), they'd run right back to check. And usually one of them had calf duty while the other one remained on "General Guard."

Maybe the most important thing of all is, THEY COME WHEN I CALL. That is seriously good. Maggie goes just outside our perimeter fence to the ridge just north of our property, from which she can see and hear for literally miles, every morning early, before the sun comes up. Two of the coyote packs live out that way, so she just goes out to a high spot and warns them to stay away. If she's still out there after it starts getting light, I can call her, and 10 minutes later, here she comes, across the pasture from the far hill, answering my call. NONE of my Pyrs would come when I called like that. None of them. They came back when they were darned good and ready.

It seems like there should be more. The Akbashes are just so much "more" dog, it seems to me. Maggie is my heart dog, for instance. She loves me like nothing else, and the feeling is mutual. She sits in front of me when I'm out in the barn after milking and presses her head against my chest while I'm loving on her, but if she hears one of the guineas make a noise, for example, she's off like a shot to make sure it's OK. I have to be mindful of where my chin is when we're hugging, because she could knock my teeth out with her big ol' Mastiff head when she pops up like that. No amount of petting or distraction from me will keep her from hearing and acting on a perceived threat, and Conan was the same way, but Maggie didn't let him get snuggles from me much. She is a very jealous dog. Conan was mostly Rich's dog (but I loved him just as much as I love Maggie). She's very possessive of me, but she'll drop me like a hot potato if she hears a coyote howl or a hawk scream.

I will never have another breed of LGD if I can help it. I hope Maggie is with me until I don't need one anymore.

Here's a picture of her, one of my favorites. It expresses her personality perfectly.

View attachment 51604

And this was my boy, Conan:
View attachment 51605
Thank you for sharing. You are right they sound just like our Missie girl! I was researching the Akbash last night and found a lot of temperament and working style similarities to the Maremma and Kuvasz. Personally, I am not fond of a Pyrenees' working style. So far any LGDs we have had protected from above, I assumed all did. The Ravens were poking holes in our barley/oat silage wrapping this fall. One time showing her I cared about those white tubes and that nonsense eased. She really needs a partner like your Maggie had in Conan. It can be hard work on her own some days. Beautiful dogs! Great insights! Thanks!
 

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