Letter from Dept of Interior/BLM regarding coal mining East Texas

[dieselbeef]

some of this has been dug in the last 5 yrs and has remained unchanged since the dragline did its work..its takes many many yrs to reclaim it.
few county officials will side against the phosphate giants of mosaic....they own the land...or the mineral rights...and will do with it mostly as they see fit
ive been to council meetings and public opinion mtgs and altho they never seem to be popular the law is on their side so...dig they do..reclaim..ahahaha..someday ......maybe

 

[Bright Raven]

some of this has been dug in the last 5 yrs and has remained unchanged since the dragline did its work..its takes many many yrs to reclaim it.
few county officials will side against the phosphate giants of mosaic....they own the land...or the mineral rights...and will do with it mostly as they see fit
ive been to council meetings and public opinion mtgs and altho they never seem to be popular the law is on their side so...dig they do..reclaim..ahahaha..someday ......maybe

Diesel. I might have misread your post. I was posting about coal mining. Other hard rock and soft rock mining is very poorly regulated. You may never see the phosphate mine reclaimed.

 

[Brute 23]

some of this has been dug in the last 5 yrs and has remained unchanged since the dragline did its work..its takes many many yrs to reclaim it.
few county officials will side against the phosphate giants of mosaic....they own the land...or the mineral rights...and will do with it mostly as they see fit
ive been to council meetings and public opinion mtgs and altho they never seem to be popular the law is on their side so...dig they do..reclaim..ahahaha..someday ......maybe

Im sure its like every thing else.. some companies care... some don't.

Here they take the brush off and get rid of it. Then they clear the top soil and make a huge mountain furthest away. Then they take the next level and put it closer, next level closer. Then they dredge out the coal. They fill that spot back with the fly ash byproduct from burning the coal. Then they put all the layers back one by one and scoot over. They have huge tractors disking and planting behind them. Its pretty quick also... maybe a year or two. It looks great after they are done.

Its better than the uranium stuff. They basically use a water flood to bring it up. The rules are so outdated that they cant allow people in and around the water wells. They still follow the old rules like its being dug out.

 

[RayfromTX]

So what should the policy be? Should the mining companies be required to restore the land and protect the water or should they be left to do as they see fit? If they are forced to restore and protect, who should be responsible to ensure that they do? If they are allowed to leave the land as they please, should they be responsible for the affects on the ground and surface water? Tough nut to crack.

 

[Bright Raven]

So what should the policy be? Should the mining companies be required to restore the land and protect the water or should they be left to do as they see fit? If they are forced to restore and protect, who should be responsible to ensure that they do? If they are allowed to leave the land as they please, should they be responsible for the affects on the ground and surface water? Tough nut to crack.

If it is coal, reclamation is required by federal statute. The regulatory authority for ensuring that it is done, is usually a State Agency. Even if they adhere to the letter of the law, they can still be held liable in a damage claim for degradation of ground and surface water. For coal, the nut has been cracked.

 

[dieselbeef]

http://youtu.be/hcC8zGmdnwQ

 

[Bright Raven]

http://youtu.be/hcC8zGmdnwQ

Thanks. Not a very nice situation. Treatment of ground water is not always effective.

 

[dieselbeef]

that's the reality of fl..its still a problem even now...theyre workin on it

 

[Bright Raven]

...within the BLM Resource Management Planning Area for the OKT (Okla & Tx) Joint EIS/BLM RMP and BIA IRMP[/i] and a questionnaire was included regarding whether I would approve or disapprove of 'mining by other than underground mining techniques (i.e.,surface coal mining.)

You are fortunate that the mineral rights offer you terms on how it is to be mined. Some of the mineral rights are written very broadly. Pretty much not giving the surface owner any say.

 

[Bright Raven]

that's the reality of fl..its still a problem even now...theyre workin on it

Agree. And groundwater is the most available source of fresh water in Florida. In fact, most surface water there interfaces with the groundwater.

 

[TexasBred]

...within the BLM Resource Management Planning Area for the OKT (Okla & Tx) Joint EIS/BLM RMP and BIA IRMP[/i] and a questionnaire was included regarding whether I would approve or disapprove of 'mining by other than underground mining techniques (i.e.,surface coal mining.)

You are fortunate that the mineral rights offer you terms on how it is to be mined. Some of the mineral rights are written very broadly. Pretty much not giving the surface owner any say.

About the only rights the surface owner has in Texas is the right to damages. The mineral owners will do with them what they want.

 

[kenny thomas]

So what should the policy be? Should the mining companies be required to restore the land and protect the water or should they be left to do as they see fit? If they are forced to restore and protect, who should be responsible to ensure that they do? If they are allowed to leave the land as they please, should they be responsible for the affects on the ground and surface water? Tough nut to crack.

If it is coal, reclamation is required by federal statute. The regulatory authority for ensuring that it is done, is usually a State Agency. Even if they adhere to the letter of the law, they can still be held liable in a damage claim for degradation of ground and surface water. For coal, the nut has been cracked.

I work in and around strip mining every day. The letter of the law allows a certain amount of sediments to go down the streams every day, but that changes to a bigger amout if it rains. There are thousands of acres here that were disturbed 5 or more years ago and just lays there not reclaimed. In a 13,500 acre hunting lease we have there is 3200 acres of disturbed strip mine that hasn't been reclaimed,
Even when they do reclaim here all that means is they dump the rock over the mountainside until it slightly resembles a hillside. Plant a few trees on it. Cows my azz, the bear dogs have to hunt a way around the rocks.

 

[Bright Raven]

So what should the policy be? Should the mining companies be required to restore the land and protect the water or should they be left to do as they see fit? If they are forced to restore and protect, who should be responsible to ensure that they do? If they are allowed to leave the land as they please, should they be responsible for the affects on the ground and surface water? Tough nut to crack.

If it is coal, reclamation is required by federal statute. The regulatory authority for ensuring that it is done, is usually a State Agency. Even if they adhere to the letter of the law, they can still be held liable in a damage claim for degradation of ground and surface water. For coal, the nut has been cracked.

I work in and around strip mining every day. The letter of the law allows a certain amount of sediments to go down the streams every day, but that changes to a bigger amout if it rains. There are thousands of acres here that were disturbed 5 or more years ago and just lays there not reclaimed. In a 13,500 acre hunting lease we have there is 3200 acres of disturbed strip mine that hasn't been reclaimed,
Even when they do reclaim here all that means is they dump the rock over the mountainside until it slightly resembles a hillside. Plant a few trees on it. Cows my azz, the bear dogs have to hunt a way around the rocks.

Some things never change. Virginia has always had a bad reputation with mine regulation enforcement. It seems like they just ignore the western slice of Virginia where coal is mined. I been over there a few times. I know what they do.

 

[kenny thomas]

But OSM has an office here in town to oversee what the state does. Neither makes it get fixed.
Now they are afraid the company will go under and leave them with fixing it. It's bonded at 1980 costs of reclamation. Guess who will pay for it, the taxpayers that it's harming already

 

[Bright Raven]

But OSM has an office here in town to oversee what the state does. Neither makes it get fixed.
Now they are afraid the company will go under and leave them with fixing it. It's bonded at 1980 costs of reclamation. Guess who will pay for it, the taxpayers that it's harming already

What town is that? Was it mined that long ago that the bonds are at 1980 levels? Yes. You are correct on taxpayers picking up the bill. Virginia had some terrible mine messes when I worked in eastern Kentucky. Some rough mountains along that Kentucky border. I have been to Pound, Clintwood, Grundy, etc.

 

[kenny thomas]

OSM is in Big Stone Gap also home of the state headquarters for Division of Mined Land Reclamation.
The bonds have never been updated.
I'm checking a timber operation right now that the log deck is on a permit where white pine was planted in 1987 and it's never been released. The trees are big enough to cut. They still hold a permit so they wouldn't have to apply for new ones at current rates

 

[kenny thomas]

But OSM has an office here in town to oversee what the state does. Neither makes it get fixed.
Now they are afraid the company will go under and leave them with fixing it. It's bonded at 1980 costs of reclamation. Guess who will pay for it, the taxpayers that it's harming already

What town is that? Was it mined that long ago that the bonds are at 1980 levels? Yes. You are correct on taxpayers picking up the bill. Virginia had some terrible mine messes when I worked in eastern Kentucky. Some rough mountains along that Kentucky border. I have been to Pound, Clintwood, Grundy, etc.

Pound and Clintwood are in my work area.
I allow 0 sedimentation runoff from the logging but the creek from the mines running by it can be muddy and its ok.

 

[Bright Raven]

But OSM has an office here in town to oversee what the state does. Neither makes it get fixed.
Now they are afraid the company will go under and leave them with fixing it. It's bonded at 1980 costs of reclamation. Guess who will pay for it, the taxpayers that it's harming already

Kenny, why are the bonds at 1980 levels? Is this old mining? SMCRA has a provision for abandoned mined lands. Bonds are set and administed by the State of Virginia.
http://www.dmme.virginia.gov/dmlr/dmlrlandingpage.shtml


Suggestion: contact them and find out if the bonds have been forfeited. If they have, file a citizen complaint that the mine was not reclaimed by the State. They are suppose to use the forfeited bond money to contract the work done.

I got to tell you, it has been a long standing history of the state of Virginia to ignore your part of the state.

 

[dieselbeef]

raven everything you talk about is all good but the mining cos are either so huge they can manipulate the law and the govt to suit themselves or theres benefit to the commissioners on board somewhow...its not even hard to find usually.

there aren't rescources to battle them and if there isthey just go bankrupt..

place you talk about would be great but it sure isn't the reality here..mosaic is bigger then florida....just like bp was

 

[Bright Raven]

raven everything you talk about is all good but the mining cos are either so huge they can manipulate the law and the govt to suit themselves or theres benefit to the commissioners on board somewhow...its not even hard to find usually.

there aren't rescources to battle them and if there isthey just go bankrupt..

place you talk about would be great but it sure isn't the reality here..mosaic is bigger then florida....just like bp was

Truth in what you say. Lots of corruption! I don't think people realize how companies have bought our government.