lets talk about the cns dream on bull

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angusdave63

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i was just wondering i have heard so much good about the bull i am not up to date on the modern simmi's i have used mostly english breeding for the last 20 years angus herfy and now i have a red poll bull but i would like to replace an angus bull in the future maybe this fall and i am thinking hard about a bwf simmi and my main concern is calving ease i live small calf is worth a whole lot more than a large dead calf now my cows dont get any grain so to speak only what they find in the corn fields in the fall and they get plenty of excersize in the spring i calve in the pasture not a dry lot and i have pulled one calf in the last 5 or 6 years he was backwards and upside down was the reason for pulling her am i making a mistake adding a simmi bull to my herd David
 
According to our database and Across Breed data, CNS Dream On is
4 for calving ease on all breeds he is in the top 22% within breed he is in the top 3%
-2.2 for birth weight on all breeds he is in the top 67% within breed he is in the top 5%

While calving ease is important, the main time you need to worry about it is on heifers.
 
i agree with the heifers part cbcr the simmi's i had were the old fleck breeding with several 100 plus pound calves but i think all the continental breeds have improved since and i am not gonna rule out a herfy bull either David
 
I have used at least 2-4 simmy bulls each year for the last 8 years. Have never pulled a calf from one of them. I have used them on heifers also. I have a Dream On son now and no calving problems.
 
I see no reason that you should fear using a simm bull on your cows, especially since they are cows. Select a bull that is calving ease with low to moderate birthweight that has some proof in his pedigree and you should be fine.
 
Also just bought a 600U bull calf for use next year from a flush out of a very good cow from Kansas State University. Old bloodlines but calving ease and growth with a lot of accuracy.
Bought him without seeing him but did not let Angus Cowman make the buy. :lol2:
 
all I'm going to say is this. Dream On's ONLY negative is that he has been used so heavily in the past few years...and rightly so. This cat is top of the breed (and industry in my opinion) in calving ease, as well as producing a tremendous carcass. He consistently produces good mamas and top notch sons. Since you have none of his bloodline in your herd, it might be a great idea. I have two own daughters, and I'm looking to add more. good luck in your quest..!

David
 
I have used CNS Dream On for years and years on select cows. CNSDO has a calving ease of 14.6 and a BW of -1.1 and ranks 4 stars for calving ease. I looked it up and has never had a CNSDO calf over 75 lbs at birth. Where he is lacking is in growth at yearling, but we used him mostly on first-calf heifers for calving ease, specifically. His carcass merits are quite good with high accuracies, altho his REA is lacking a lil bit for a PB Simm. His MM is pretty bad at -5.2 and I dont normally try to kill the MM on our cattle. Simmental are known for higher MM and CNS DO was used to help curtail some of that.

In his day, he was a really great bull, but father time has past him by many moons.

At last count he has over 9000 daughters on record, so as far as CE goes --no problem.

His semen is $100 a pop, which is not too good for what you might want to do. If it was me I wouldn't go with Dream On just because of semen prices and low growth on the YW category.

Many CNSDO sons are available and for super low birth weights you can go with Circlet Antoinettes Star (Listed as Star on ABS) but again his growth is lacking and his milk is even lower. He will, however, put a white face on your calves.

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/simmental.asp?CodTouro=29SM0383

Another thing you need to look at is across breed epd's where Simmental and other breeds are balanced with Angus. Look before you leap> http://www.beefcattlebiz.com/support-files/abepd.pdf

If it was me, and I was calving heifers or cows and wanting to use PB Simmental Bulls, I would probably go with:

Sure Bet (ABS) good growth and CE and BW and WW and YW and carcasss merits.
Hooks Shear Force (Bovine Elite)(for calving ease only) I dont like his punk growth and his 14+ milk LOL
Beef Maker (ABS) who is red has great growth good carcass merits and too much milk for me but.......
Nichols Manifest huge growth potential with great calving ease, he works best on Angus cows (who we all know lack WW and YW growth)

Also an honorable mention from Select Sires is a bull named Rookie (SimAngus). I have used him on heifers with no issues, but you do need to manage your first calf heifers in a better way when using Rookie ( last trimester should be on a maintenance ration only) I also wouldn't use him on heifers with a large frame. He will put 100 pounds more on his calves at weaning than any of the others I have mentioned.

Some CNS DO daughters at my house:

RED Non-Diluter PB Simmental First calf heifer (CNS DO daughter) with new calf out of Sure Bet
http://www.edrsimmental.com/resourc...00o0,0s668x500.jpg.opt673x503o0,0s673x503.jpg

This Bull is out of Circlet Antoinettes Star (A CNSDO son) Sold for $3000
http://www.edrsimmental.com/resources/bullfront.jpg.opt674x724o0,0s674x724.jpg




angusdave63":3qh4g2ws said:
i was just wondering i have heard so much good about the bull i am not up to date on the modern simmi's i have used mostly english breeding for the last 20 years angus herfy and now i have a red poll bull but i would like to replace an angus bull in the future maybe this fall and i am thinking hard about a bwf simmi and my main concern is calving ease i live small calf is worth a whole lot more than a large dead calf now my cows dont get any grain so to speak only what they find in the corn fields in the fall and they get plenty of excersize in the spring i calve in the pasture not a dry lot and i have pulled one calf in the last 5 or 6 years he was backwards and upside down was the reason for pulling her am i making a mistake adding a simmi bull to my herd David
 
JustSimmental":1fgf6pp5 said:
In his day, he was a really great bull, but father time has past him by many moons.

ROFL...!!! Serious? JS, sometimes I think you talk just to hear yourself talk. Yes, "father time" passed him by, but not for the reasons you listed, but because he is now dead. I have a couple of Dream On's (young heifers) that I think will stack up rather nicely with the Dream On's of your "yesteryear". I've also seen more than a bucket full of his young sons, and I think Dream On's legacy is doing just fine.
 
Well yeah I have some heifers too, but was just being honest about his performance based on EPD's and years of experience. Look at the 2011 chart and then Look at his numbers:
http://herdbook.simmental.org/simma...onid=FD63F7C5EC0E98C0DD53181F9E2B1656.tomcat2

CED +14.6 top 1 %
BW -1.1 top 10 %
WW 34 below average
YW 55 below average
MCE 13.6 top 1%
MILK -5.2 terrible and way below average
MWW 11.7 below average
STAY 16.4 below average
CW -6.6 below average
YG -.04 top 30%
MARB +.45 top 1%
BF .02 below average
REA +.22 top 25 %
SHR -.59 excellent top 1%

Is he a good calving ease bull? that was the question. Yes. Is he worth 100 dollars a straw for his genetics? NO...

Nichols Manifest puts him out to pasture and 100 other bulls as well -- Like I said his day is over.

He is an ok Bull -- not great......

JS






Gators Rule":1gsm1zrg said:
JustSimmental":1gsm1zrg said:
In his day, he was a really great bull, but father time has past him by many moons.

ROFL...!!! Serious? JS, sometimes I think you talk just to hear yourself talk. Yes, "father time" passed him by, but not for the reasons you listed, but because he is now dead. I have a couple of Dream On's (young heifers) that I think will stack up rather nicely with the Dream On's of your "yesteryear". I've also seen more than a bucket full of his young sons, and I think Dream On's legacy is doing just fine.
 
Here are some of his sons that are still in production
and a link to find out more about him
[http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/CNS_Dream_On_L186.aspx]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•Bar CK Vision 227P - AI Sire
•CircleT Antoinettes Star - AI Sire
•DHF Jades Dreamworks - AI Sire
•GONSIOR/NF SCARLETDREAMS - AI Sire
•HTP SVF In Dew Time - AI Sire
•JDJ Charisma 20P - AI Sire
•JS Burning Up 33R - AI Sire
•Lazy H Go Daddy - AI Sire
•Lazy H Pathfinder R104 - AI Sire
•Maas True Dream 404P - AI Sire
•Remington Red Label HR - AI Sire
•SF What A Dream - AI Sire
•SS Undreamabull R308 - AI Sire
•STF Dream Dollar S404 - AI Sire
•STF Shocking Dream - AI Sire
•STF Smooth Sailin 151S - AI Sire
•SVF Star Power - AI Sire
•SVF Star Power S802 - AI Sire
•SVF Steel Force S701 - AI Sire
•SVF/NJC Built Right N48 - AI Sire
•WAGR Dream Catcher 03R - AI Sire
•What A Dream - AI Sire
•Winchester HR P8315 - AI Sire
•WSJ Encore

And what some of his offspring have sold for, ya he must not be that good

Recent Top Selling CNS Dream On L186 Offspring
Sale Date Lot# Description Price Comparable Price* first $ is what they sold for 2 $ is what the average was.
National Simmental S 1/21/2008 Bred Heifer $39,000 $8,054
Ante Up 2008 11/17/2008 a Bred Heifer $25,000 $2,928
National Simmental S 1/21/2008 Flush $22,000 $11,792
National Simmental S 1/21/2008 Open Heifer $17,500 $5,173
2008 North American 11/18/2008 Bred Heifer $14,500 $6,818
Exposure 2006 12/16/2006 33 Open Heifer $13,000 $6,192
Ante Up 2008 11/17/2008 a Cow $13,000 $4,508
Bushy Park Farm Priv 2/15/2011 Bull $13,000 $5,322
Guyer Cattle Company 1/12/2008 Bred Heifer $12,000 $2,931
Guyer Cattle Company 1/12/2008 A Bred Heifer $12,000 $2,931
 
You people are out to lunch and miss the point every time. Its really funny.
Some guy asked about CNSDO for calving ease-- yeah for calving ease he is great, but really is he worth $100 a pop --- when he has plenty of Son's out there to use with even better numbers for $20

This was the Point--- It wasn' putting down CNS DO. funny

But now that you have brought it up, he isn't that great in today's numbers and he is lacking in many areas. In his day, he was widely used to help correct some huge milk issues in PBSM.
good post tho.



VCC":1ux14ae5 said:
Here are some of his sons that are still in production
and a link to find out more about him
[http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/CNS_Dream_On_L186.aspx]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bar CK Vision 227P - AI Sire API 117 TI 66 so what
CircleT Antoinettes Star - AI Sire API 148 TI 72, but with low growth like CNSDO
DHF Jades Dreamworks - AI Sire API 114 TI 76 so what
GONSIOR/NF SCARLETDREAMS - AI Sire API 127 TI 67 , but with low growth like CNSDO
HTP SVF In Dew Time - AI Sire API 128 TI 70 so what
JDJ Charisma 20P - AI Sire API 122 TI 67 weak
JS Burning Up 33R - AI Sire API 109 TI 65 a cull
Lazy H Go Daddy - AI Sire API 121 TI 67 weak
Lazy H Pathfinder R104 - AI Sire API 109 TI 58 a cull
Maas True Dream 404P - AI Sire API 106 TI 64 a cull
Remington Red Label HR - AI Sire API 105 TI 59 a cull
SF What A Dream - AI Sire API 119 TI 68 a cull
SS Undreamabull R308 - AI Sire API 118 TI 65 a cull
STF Dream Dollar S404 - AI Sire API 116 TI 61 a cull
STF Shocking Dream - AI Sire API 119 TI 66 so what
STF Smooth Sailin 151S - AI Sire API 130 TI 63 so what terrible growth

I didnt list them all --they get worse from there... enough to make a point is all I needed

Fine class, there; thank you; of CNSDO genetics, but my point was one could use a CNSDO son with better numbers The Star bull is the best one up there for numbers altho he is weak in a few important categories as well. here is the data on PBSM for your convenience, so that you give the real information without leaving it out purposely.

http://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/template/evalstats,purebred.vm

And what some of his offspring have sold for, ya he must not be that good

Recent Top Selling CNS Dream On L186 Offspring
Sale Date Lot# Description Price Comparable Price* first $ is what they sold for 2 $ is what the average was.
National Simmental S 1/21/2008 Bred Heifer $39,000 $8,054
Ante Up 2008 11/17/2008 a Bred Heifer $25,000 $2,928
National Simmental S 1/21/2008 Flush $22,000 $11,792
National Simmental S 1/21/2008 Open Heifer $17,500 $5,173
2008 North American 11/18/2008 Bred Heifer $14,500 $6,818
Exposure 2006 12/16/2006 33 Open Heifer $13,000 $6,192
Ante Up 2008 11/17/2008 a Cow $13,000 $4,508
Bushy Park Farm Priv 2/15/2011 Bull $13,000 $5,322
Guyer Cattle Company 1/12/2008 Bred Heifer $12,000 $2,931
Guyer Cattle Company 1/12/2008 A Bred Heifer $12,000 $2,931
 
your quote "He is an ok Bull -- not great......"

If it were me I would use a son as well but you do not produce the duaghters he has or sons that have better numbers than you do if you were not a great bull in your time.

Issent the true mark of a great bull improving your breed and producing better animals than themselves? In my oppinion he did that. Are there better bulls in the breed now, yes, did he help better the breed, I would say yes.

There are alot of bulls that only pass improvement on to one generation before it starts to taper off, others have their 3rd and 4th generations out perform them, that should be your goal as a breeder.

*******
Dave based off of your question, it looks like you are wanting to purchase a herd bull, so I will assume your are thinking of buying a Dream On son or grandson, as long as they have comparable CE numbers to Dream On, you should be happy with your result with the CE, the steers and the heifers.
 
VCC - I "assumed" he was looking at a son also. Maybe not.
Yes, I still use Dream On (bred a heifer 2 nights ago). But at his price, you better have a good market for your cattle as breeders - or looking to improve the genetics within your herd.
DO is still great. Yes, the biggest downfall is, in many herds, that there are too many offspring to continue using his line.
He CONSISTANTLY puts a great calf on the ground - besides being a CE bull. He IMPROVES cattle.
 
JustSimmental":2nsvnz2l said:
Well yeah I have some heifers too, but was just being honest about his performance based on EPD's and years of experience.
Gators Rule":2nsvnz2l said:
JustSimmental":2nsvnz2l said:
In his day, he was a really great bull, but father time has past him by many moons.

ROFL...!!! Serious? JS, sometimes I think you talk just to hear yourself talk. Yes, "father time" passed him by, but not for the reasons you listed, but because he is now dead. I have a couple of Dream On's (young heifers) that I think will stack up rather nicely with the Dream On's of your "yesteryear". I've also seen more than a bucket full of his young sons, and I think Dream On's legacy is doing just fine.


you're weren't being honest....just more of the same opinionated jibber-jabber. The mark of a great bull is one that has the ability to sire calves that are better than himself. Dream On does this... Now, back to your regularly scheduled program. :)
 
yes i am looking for a dream on son i was waiting to see what they have at the purdue test station i think after i get my hereford heifers bred i will sell my angus bull and replace him with a bwf simmi then run my red poll with my angus cows and the simmi with the herfy's
 

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