Let me know what you all think

[Hill Creek Farm]

Hill Creek you really should slow down I have been showing herefords for 20 years now I have seen people come and go and I have seen ones that come into the business way to fast and fall short very fast. You need to test your theory on how to raise animals and make money at it first. Those big wigs are spotting you boy and they are hunting you down they know where the money is

My Grand Father always said "it takes alot longer to earn a dollar than to spend it". Ive seen a lot of breeders come and go in this business over the past 30 years. . The ones that didnt make it were the ones that had "" the money. "" They alwasy seem to run out of money first. Develope a progam of making money , not a program of spending money . You cannot spend your way to the top., but you can spend your way broke in a short time.

Seems like I saw a statistic somehwere that said the average live expectency of a seed store producer was 7 years.

dun

Fantasinating! Take care Dun! :cboy:

 

[dun]

Fingers got ahead ofme agian. That hsould have read "seedstock" not "seed store"

dun

 

[Brandonm2]

Fingers got ahead ofme agian. That hsould have read "seedstock" not "seed store"

dun

When that happens to me I usually just "edit" my original post and pretend nothing ever happened.

 

[Ned Jr.]

Seems like I saw a statistic somehwere that said the average live expectency of a seed store producer was 7 years.

dun

I bet thats because of all them dag gum registered cattle producers that go broke at 6 years 12 months and don't pay their bills.

couldn't resist

 

[dun]

Fingers got ahead ofme agian. That hsould have read "seedstock" not "seed store"

dun

When that happens to me I usually just "edit" my original post and pretend nothing ever happened.

That only crrects the original post. It oesn;t correct the quotes. If it hadn;t been already quoted that's what I would have done.

My brain tells my fingers and when I read it since my brain 'knows' what was typed, it still reads it as it was intended, not what's really there.

dun

 

[KMacGinley]

This has been very entertaining.

Take care is HC's way of saying go to He##.

MntMN and Doc: He has spent a lot of money on those cows and he will never cull one for fertility problems, he just rolls them over.

No one commented on his several statements that he has not had one come open yet. That says that he has not been doing this very long. Probably less than two years.

HC: I agree with you that you probably have two very good bulls to breed your cows to. Probably as good as the bulls that are selling big numbers of straws. In the part of the cattle industry that you are getting involved with, you can't market those cattle as well as you could AI sired calves.

In the purebred business, there are a large number of sharks that circle the waters looking for someone like you to take a bite out of. You think that they are your friends and they give you "advice" and the sharper ones don't sell you anything of theirs at first. They lull you into thinking that they have your best interests at heart and later they get their teeth into you.

They will buy a few embryos off of you or a show heifer in 2008, but the money will mostly flow from you to them.

Their victims are the Doctor or successful construction business guy that has a few million and a cowboy fantasy. They get him to hire their herdsman buddy to run the place and they suggest sales to go to and specific purchases to make and I am sure that they never get a kickback from the breeders that they lead these people to.

The pigeon goes to a sale and buys a few "donor cows" for big bucks and gets into the et end of it. The shark just happens to be close personal friends with the best darn et guy in the business who will take care of it for the pigeon.

A few years down the road, the pigeon has his first production sale ( I enjoy the sale catalog pictures of the happy extended family of the owner) and the people that he bought donors from all show up and buy a few head, but the money ALWAYS flows from the pigeon out. (Those cows are lot 99 in that guys next production sale.)

The pigeon's accountant,( or maybe more likely his wife)brings to his attention that he is losing his shirt and now we have a dispersal sale of cattle, farm and equipment (Usually new and shiny.) At bargain basement prices.

The sharks are on the hunt for the next victim.

Here is some free advice:

1. You live in the heart of Black Angus cattle country, but you are raising herefords. (Hint)( I like herefords too, but I am raising Angus, because they are better at PR.)

2. Airline tickets cost money that the cattle should have to pay for. (CA ranch scheme)

3. You are going to have to do some showing, judging by the type of herefords you are tallking about. (Very expensive proposition)

4. In the long run, selling bulls to commercial cattlemen will make you more legitimate money than what you are trying to do, unless your long range goal is to become a shark yourself.

5, Start out very slowly and breed your cattle up. Trying to buy into it, will never get you into the club. Doc Hunt was a Purdue professor and that heifer that you bought was the product of 70 years of breeding herefords. The way you are going about this, will Hill Creek be in business 50 years from now?

6. Some really smart people are all trying to tell you the same thing. They have no financial interest in you or your operation. Now why do you suppose they are saying these things to you? They don't seem to want to see you fail or they would have not bothered to respond for 14 pages.

7. Take a step back, take a deep breath and think long and hard about where you want to end up and the safest and most prudent way to get there.


Regards Mac. (Notice I did not say take care.)

Oh, I liked the looks of that bull a lot.

 

[Muratic]

Ya'll are just wasteing time and energy on this kid. He will not listen to any of this. He has proven that time and time again.

He has not had to work for his dollar so he doesn't have to be frugal with how he spends it.

Just like the kids that get a brand new mustang for his 16th birthday. He will scratch it and run the snot out of it without a care in the world. But the kid that spent hours, his hard earned money, and his own sweat in the shop building the truck from the ground up will respect the fact that if he breaks it he is out a $ and time. He also knows he has to fund the repairs and turn the wrenches to fix it himself.

The kid with the inheritance will be down the purebred tubes in less than 5 years. Mainly because he is running his mouth here. He will not get any of these folks to think about buying an animal out of his program. And by the time these folk here get done spreading the word...not too many folk from anywhere will buy from him.

Word of mouth can make you or break you.
Hill Creek is burning bridges he hasn't even built yet.

 

[Brandonm2]

1. You live in the heart of Black Angus cattle country, but you are raising herefords. (Hint)( I like herefords too, but I am raising Angus, because they are better at PR.)

Actually, I have to ~agree with Hill here (and that does not happen too often). IF you are in "the heart of Black Angus cattle country" it don't make a LOT of sense for a new breeder to get into the Angus scene. I don't know anything about Virginia but when I get my Alabama Farmer's Bulletin every month it is usually full of good deals on Angus bulls. AI sired bulls are to be had for $2500 or less (sometimes a lot less) before any haggling. It will be hard for Hill too break into the Hereford business; but when everybody has an Angus breeder within 15 miles of their place (sometimes in any direction) I can't see why they would buy an Angus bull from 21 year old Hill instead of either the already established big name guy that already fills their mailbox full of catalogs and flyers or the seasoned old hand they and their daddy were buying bulls from for the past 20 years. How many New Design bloodline cows do we really need afterall? I might have to get on the phone and work to find a Pinzgauer, Santa Gertrudis, or Simmental bull; but I could go to an Angus sale just about every month of the year without traveling too far or talking to anybody. Establishing himself is going to be really HARD in any breed; but doing it in the 2006 Angus scene really seems to be too hard a row to hoe. Most commercial guys know that they can get a heterosis boost from crossing their black cows to almost anything else. That means that there is a market out there for Herfs, Sims, Chars, Gerts, Lims, etc to fight over. Now does HILL have the ability to seize that market? I don't know.

 

[blk mule]

What do you all think of this herd bull that I am thinking about purchasing 1/2 interest and 1/2 possession. Bash him all you want, but at 12 months he had a REA score of 16.56. He is a 6/5 frame bull and Wallace Lee at Triple Ranch said that he is the biggest hindquartered bull and widest bull he had ever raised since 1964, when the place first started out. So, tell me everything. What do you all think, seriously. :cboy:

http://www.lllranch.com/animal_docs/her ... er148p.htm

His name is LLL Cattlemaster 148P ET.

Take care everyone. :cboy:

 

[JHH]

1. You live in the heart of Black Angus cattle country, but you are raising herefords. (Hint)( I like herefords too, but I am raising Angus, because they are better at PR.)

Actually, I have to ~agree with Hill here (and that does not happen too often). IF you are in "the heart of Black Angus cattle country" it don't make a LOT of sense for a new breeder to get into the Angus scene. I don't know anything about Virginia but when I get my Alabama Farmer's Bulletin every month it is usually full of good deals on Angus bulls. AI sired bulls are to be had for $2500 or less (sometimes a lot less) before any haggling. It will be hard for Hill too break into the Hereford business; but when everybody has an Angus breeder within 15 miles of their place (sometimes in any direction) I can't see why they would buy an Angus bull from 21 year old Hill instead of either the already established big name guy that already fills their mailbox full of catalogs and flyers or the seasoned old hand they and their daddy were buying bulls from for the past 20 years. How many New Design bloodline cows do we really need afterall? I might have to get on the phone and work to find a Pinzgauer, Santa Gertrudis, or Simmental bull; but I could go to an Angus sale just about every month of the year without traveling too far or talking to anybody. Establishing himself is going to be really HARD in any breed; but doing it in the 2006 Angus scene really seems to be too hard a row to hoe. Most commercial guys know that they can get a heterosis boost from crossing their black cows to almost anything else. That means that there is a market out there for Herfs, Sims, Chars, Gerts, Lims, etc to fight over. Now does HILL have the ability to seize that market? I don't know.

Sounds right to me.

I could have bought a very good angus bull in march from some good bloodlines for less than 2000.00. ( I probably should have)
But I like the herfs and as long as prices stay good I will continue to do so. When the prices start to go then I will buy a black bull and start keeping both reg. and some black baldies.

I am also in the heart of angus country. JHH

 

[blk mule]

I run commercial blk angus. I would not hesitate one minute to breed to this bull. Darn good bull PERIOD. blk. mule

 

[CowpokeJ]

Does this bull have any get on the ground yet? I don't know much about cattle but it seems to me you could continue buying straws from multiple bulls cheaper, with more versatility. What happens if he's not a producer?

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Does this bull have any get on the ground yet? I don't know much about cattle but it seems to me you could continue buying straws from multiple bulls cheaper, with more versatility. What happens if he's not a producer?

No, not yet. He is a unproven bull and by the way, went and saw him and didn't like him or his dam. So, after 15 pages of post, I can say, that I am not buying this bull. You all take care. :cboy:

 

[KMacGinley]

1. You live in the heart of Black Angus cattle country, but you are raising herefords. (Hint)( I like herefords too, but I am raising Angus, because they are better at PR.)

Actually, I have to ~agree with Hill here (and that does not happen too often). IF you are in "the heart of Black Angus cattle country" it don't make a LOT of sense for a new breeder to get into the Angus scene. I don't know anything about Virginia but when I get my Alabama Farmer's Bulletin every month it is usually full of good deals on Angus bulls. AI sired bulls are to be had for $2500 or less (sometimes a lot less) before any haggling. It will be hard for Hill too break into the Hereford business; but when everybody has an Angus breeder within 15 miles of their place (sometimes in any direction) I can't see why they would buy an Angus bull from 21 year old Hill instead of either the already established big name guy that already fills their mailbox full of catalogs and flyers or the seasoned old hand they and their daddy were buying bulls from for the past 20 years. How many New Design bloodline cows do we really need afterall? I might have to get on the phone and work to find a Pinzgauer, Santa Gertrudis, or Simmental bull; but I could go to an Angus sale just about every month of the year without traveling too far or talking to anybody. Establishing himself is going to be really HARD in any breed; but doing it in the 2006 Angus scene really seems to be too hard a row to hoe. Most commercial guys know that they can get a heterosis boost from crossing their black cows to almost anything else. That means that there is a market out there for Herfs, Sims, Chars, Gerts, Lims, etc to fight over. Now does HILL have the ability to seize that market? I don't know.

You may have a point. I was thinking that if he was going to start up a new operation, he might want to do it where he is and try to serve the Angus market there in Virginia. An awful lot of those cattle are Straightbred commercial black angus.

In the Mid 80's I worked for an outfit called Braeburne farm that custom flushed Polled Herefords in Virginia. We drove all over to pick up donor cows, We flushed some from Alabama. That Tennessee River Music Bunch sent us cows. From Virginia to Ohio and on into Indiana to get the donors. Meanwhile thousands upon thousands of Angus cows were within a couple hours of us.
I went to a field rep of the Angus assoc. to ask if he knew where we could buy some good angus recips. He did. He also asked me why we weren't flushing angus, because he had some people that would send some to us, we were exclusively polled herefords.
I asked my boss why we didn't do the angus cows and he said that we only did Polled Herefords. Why, I asked, He said that is what we do. OK.???

That stuck with me I guess. In HC's position, with all the cows around him, and the tendency for people to not change much, I figured he could capitalize on the angus business that has to be there. Regards Mac.

On a side note. That Mohican Polled hereford farm was a class outfit. Conard Stitzlein was flushing a bunch of heifers to a new polled hereford bull called Perfection. Rumors started that that bull was a crossbred. He had us lutalyse everything that was carrying one of those embryos. A year or two later Perfection was kicked out as a crossbred. He could have sold those calves as purebreds and made some good money. But he didn't. Definetly not a shark, I didn't meet very many others that weren't though.

 

[Brandonm2]

IF my memory serves, Perfection was found out to be 1/4 Red Holstein.

Obviously if I was flushing cattle for a living I would be handling Herefords, Angus, Simmentals, Murray Greys, everything to Holsteins, minis, and Bison (I am assuming that you CAN flush a bison). I have nothing against Angus cattle; BUT there are becoming hundreds of thousands of them. Hill has an ad in the Hereford World almost every month. He obviously wants industry recognition. Becoming a top 20 Hereford Breeder is a huge mountain to climb; but becoming a top 20 Angus breeder in 2006 is extremely difficult.

 

[certherfbeef]

Mac,

There are 2 sides to the Perfection bull story. You only have one side...the side that the person with the most money convinced everyone was correct.

BTW, you can register L prefix cattle...you just get a green registration paper. I have several that are excellent brood cows and look 100% hereford. They look more hereford than some of today's cattle. But they are in my commercial herd.

 

[polledbull]

Anyone wanting custom flushing and donor boarding can contact Howard Bros Farms, LLC in NC .We accept any breed and utilize the HeatWatch system on Donors and recips. email at [email protected]. We use a board certified embryologist with 15 years expierence . contact us for a fee schedule.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

1. You live in the heart of Black Angus cattle country, but you are raising herefords. (Hint)( I like herefords too, but I am raising Angus, because they are better at PR.)

Actually, I have to ~agree with Hill here (and that does not happen too often). IF you are in "the heart of Black Angus cattle country" it don't make a LOT of sense for a new breeder to get into the Angus scene. I don't know anything about Virginia but when I get my Alabama Farmer's Bulletin every month it is usually full of good deals on Angus bulls. AI sired bulls are to be had for $2500 or less (sometimes a lot less) before any haggling. It will be hard for Hill too break into the Hereford business; but when everybody has an Angus breeder within 15 miles of their place (sometimes in any direction) I can't see why they would buy an Angus bull from 21 year old Hill instead of either the already established big name guy that already fills their mailbox full of catalogs and flyers or the seasoned old hand they and their daddy were buying bulls from for the past 20 years. How many New Design bloodline cows do we really need afterall? I might have to get on the phone and work to find a Pinzgauer, Santa Gertrudis, or Simmental bull; but I could go to an Angus sale just about every month of the year without traveling too far or talking to anybody. Establishing himself is going to be really HARD in any breed; but doing it in the 2006 Angus scene really seems to be too hard a row to hoe. Most commercial guys know that they can get a heterosis boost from crossing their black cows to almost anything else. That means that there is a market out there for Herfs, Sims, Chars, Gerts, Lims, etc to fight over. Now does HILL have the ability to seize that market? I don't know.

You may have a point. I was thinking that if he was going to start up a new operation, he might want to do it where he is and try to serve the Angus market there in Virginia. An awful lot of those cattle are Straightbred commercial black angus.

In the Mid 80's I worked for an outfit called Braeburne farm that custom flushed Polled Herefords in Virginia. We drove all over to pick up donor cows, We flushed some from Alabama. That Tennessee River Music Bunch sent us cows. From Virginia to Ohio and on into Indiana to get the donors. Meanwhile thousands upon thousands of Angus cows were within a couple hours of us.
I went to a field rep of the Angus assoc. to ask if he knew where we could buy some good angus recips. He did. He also asked me why we weren't flushing angus, because he had some people that would send some to us, we were exclusively polled herefords.
I asked my boss why we didn't do the angus cows and he said that we only did Polled Herefords. Why, I asked, He said that is what we do. OK.???

That stuck with me I guess. In HC's position, with all the cows around him, and the tendency for people to not change much, I figured he could capitalize on the angus business that has to be there. Regards Mac.

On a side note. That Mohican Polled hereford farm was a class outfit. Conard Stitzlein was flushing a bunch of heifers to a new polled hereford bull called Perfection. Rumors started that that bull was a crossbred. He had us lutalyse everything that was carrying one of those embryos. A year or two later Perfection was kicked out as a crossbred. He could have sold those calves as purebreds and made some good money. But he didn't. Definetly not a shark, I didn't meet very many others that weren't though.

What I am wanting to do in my area and I think it is starting to work, is to introduce the HEreford back into the my part of the world and by doing that, selling the commrical breeder in my parts a good Polled Hereford bull for $2500 and that commerical breeder breeding that good Hereford bull to mostly in my parts, black angus and then having a good marketable calf at the sales. My cutomers really do lik emy bulls that I sell them and they always call me, well, most almost all of them do and state that my bulls don't burn up and that the bull is doing what they do best and that is breed cattle. I will say that since starting up into more advanced technology, like embryo transfer and AI, well AI has been around longer than ET, but I am really a big fan of ET. Now, I buy donors that will suit the commerical man and will produce bulls that will be just what they are looking for. Example, I have a good friend of mine that lives with minutes of me that breeds about 100 head of commerical cattle, and he told me that if I could design a bull the had bigger shoulders, but smooth shoulders, then he would buy bulls off of me the rest of his life. I have never had any compliants about my bulls on breeding and I have all of them semen tested, before I sell them. I have never had one that wasn't ever fertile, so that is a plus. I am really excited about my sales in the future and I don't know what it is about me, but I get more excited at a bull sale than a female sale. I am excited that on November 1st, 2008 I am having my first heifer sale. Then, in March 2009 havin my first bull sale, I mean to me, its very exciting. I hope that some of you are maybe all of you can attend. Take care. :cboy:

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Mac,

There are 2 sides to the Perfection bull story. You only have one side...the side that the person with the most money convinced everyone was correct.

BTW, you can register L prefix cattle...you just get a green registration paper. I have several that are excellent brood cows and look 100% hereford. They look more hereford than some of today's cattle. But they are in my commercial herd.

I remember hearing about the Perfection bull and reading about him and I will agree that his daughters did milk more than the avg Hereford cow would heve ever milked. Take care. :cboy:

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

IF my memory serves, Perfection was found out to be 1/4 Red Holstein.

Obviously if I was flushing cattle for a living I would be handling Herefords, Angus, Simmentals, Murray Greys, everything to Holsteins, minis, and Bison (I am assuming that you CAN flush a bison). I have nothing against Angus cattle; BUT there are becoming hundreds of thousands of them. Hill has an ad in the Hereford World almost every month. He obviously wants industry recognition. Becoming a top 20 Hereford Breeder is a huge mountain to climb; but becoming a top 20 Angus breeder in 2006 is extremely difficult.

I want breeders to be aware of who I am and what I am trying to do. I don't classify myself as a top 20 breeder in the breed, but maybe someday. :cboy: