LEGAL-yes ETHICAL-?????

[frenchie]

What is wrong with animals having rights? I think any group that advocates the ethical treatment of animals is admirable..

You have a lot to learn pup.Sleep with the enemy..Its your choice.

The NCBA has the reputation of helping the packers and does little to advocate and or recruit the working class rancher. ..

NCBA at least understands the buisness R-Calf only thinks it does.

You ought to lay off of RCALF they are not the spiteful group you make them out to be...

Not on your life . They shall reap what they have sown..hatred.

Frenchie, What is good about RCALF? I ask honestly wanting to know what in your view they do that is worthwhile.

That Montana Steers finally have a voice.

See you later Mr R-Calf.

 

[frenchie]

isn't socialist just a nice way of saying communist?

Socialist /communist all the same..R_Calf fits that bill..They want more gov,t intervention in the packing industry..Thats headed down the communist road.

Frenchie you should know about socialist coming from a country that won't even allow you to sell your grain to your neighbor- Has to all go thru the government operated subsidy-CWB- Canadian Wheat Board ( or as its known south of the 49th, Communist Wheat Board).......

So explain to Me Ot how a pool account is a subsidy its not.

Furthermore I remember Montana stopping grain shipments at the border..So don,t try and kid us you don,t want our wheat anyway.

You guys wanted the US owned multinational packers so bad- you just had to have them

They came to us Oldtimer because the Montana steers could not supply enough product.

so you could over expand your cattle industry and you set up no laws to control them or even check on them or the sub corporations they have formed ( I've heard some estimates where the US packer controlled corporations own 50-75% of the feedlot space in Canada)-- that is why and how they were using Canadian cattle to dump into the US and lower both markets

The way you talk Canadian cattlemen never had a bad day till the border closed as usual your full of crap.

-that is why they shafted you when the border was closed because of BSE and now you try to blame everyone else for your countries failure in letting them get control of your country

I,m not blaming everyone else just R-calf and the Montana steers that fund them.

-I'd rather see them have to be honest with consumers and tell them where their meat comes from...

Canadians are honest about the matter ..Is it my problem your own country removes the product Of Canada mark?

-If you are a cattle owner, you will be wishing for a Canadian R-CALF as soon as all the trade agreements get stuck in place and Canada is swamped with South American beef...

Get real Oldtimer Central America Is yrs away from beginning able to swamp any markets.[/b]

 

[Oldtimer]

Get real Oldtimer Central America Is yrs away from beginning able to swamp any markets.[/b]

Read Again Frenchie- I said SOUTH America---yes it probably will be funneled thru Central America using the multitude of agreements now being signed by all these countries.....

Brazil produces more cattle than the US, Canada, and Mexico combined- using an Ag workforce who's average daily pay is less than $10 day......And the way things are now when this starts coming thru our trade agreements into the US and on into Canada by way of NAFTA it will all be unlabeled as to country of origin-The multinationals do not want to give consumer in the US or Canada a choice- not if it would take away from their profits and ability to pass it off as domestic beef... Wouldn't it be more honest to require that it be labeled as to country of origin and let the consumers decide....Or should we just let the packers throw the South American next to the Canadian beef and lower the price on all of it?

And Brazil is not that far away- they have a government backed vaccination program- once they get FMD cleared they will be on the way- and with Cargil investing billions $ in Brazil cattle and crop production and building the infrastructure needed they will have a reason to invest millions $ to the lobbyists......USDA just last week opened up Chile for exporting beef into the US.......

 

[Beef11]

First, my name isn't "PUP" we don't need to lower ourselves to personal insults. Second I can't seem to get a good picture of why Rcalf is so bad just that frenchie thinks they are the devil. As an undecided voice south of the 49th i should be informed instead of badgered and insulted. I think ethical treatment of animals is important (animal abuse is highly correlated with domestic abuse). I still haven't given my support to R-Calf. I need facts presented in an objective fashion. I don't want facts loaded with spin from either side of the arena. I'm 1/8th Canadian. How can the absence of R-CALF help me, my neighbors and you and your neighbors?
Being bitter does little to advocate your point, personal bias does nothing to convince me. Shape it up.

 

[frenchie]

Get real Oldtimer Central America Is yrs away from beginning able to swamp any markets.[/b]

Read Again Frenchie- I said SOUTH America---yes it probably will be funneled thru Central America using the multitude of agreements now being signed by all these countries.....]

Duh Oldtimer
:dunce:

And Brazil is not that far away- they have a government backed vaccination program- once they get FMD cleared

Smarten up OT...All of those countries have to have the infrastructure to get the product here. F.M.D is one obstacle and the road systems in these countries is another.


If you vaccinate for F.m.D ..you cannot be declared a F.M.D free country .

Because they can not tell If the Animal is positive with the vaccine in its blood stream.

 

[frenchie]

First, my name isn't "PUP" we don't need to lower ourselves to personal insults..

Oh but it was all right to call me a pup right..

Second I can't seem to get a good picture of why Rcalf is so bad just that frenchie thinks they are the devil. .

I told you why...you just are not listening..Not only did R-Calf try to keep the border closed to live cattle...They also went after the boxed beef trade from Canada. Put the final nail in the coffin,so to speak.

As an undecided voice south of the 49th i should be informed instead of badgered and insulted. .

Badgered you joined this topic all on your own as far as insulted
your one to talk.

I think ethical treatment of animals is important (animal abuse is highly correlated with domestic abuse)..

I think animal abuse is very serious But I won,t align myself with a group that fundest the A.R people.

I still haven't given my support to R-Calf. I need facts presented in an objective fashion. I don't want facts loaded with spin from either side of the arena.

Then do the research..

. I'm 1/8th Canadian..

:?: So what

. How can the absence of R-CALF help me, my neighbors and you and your neighbors? ..

Thats 2 questions R-Calf sole function is too keep imported cattle out.U.S benefit.

No benefit to canadians.

Being bitter does little to advocate your point, personal bias does nothing to convince me. Shape it up.

Shape it up yourself..think how can R-Calf screaming about b.s.e
be a good thing when you have B.S.e in your own country.

If R-Calf was any good at all how come they have not tryed to get to the bottom of the problems associated with the U.S Testing program.

Where were they when the former U>S.D.A vet stood up in the Canadian house Of Commons and told them..The U.S was hiding it.

Did they not want to get to the bottom of it..After all R-calf is all about health right...They were nowhere.Oldtimer said the U.S>D.AVets were all disgruntled employees

How can you even think of aligning yourself with a group that is partners with a group that funds the A.R groups.

good Luck beef11

 

[Beef11]

Je regrette que nous ne puissions pas avoir une bonne conversation sur ici sans vous organisant tous dans les bras avec votre pitié moi l'attitude, suivie par votre du contexte les remarques sarcastiques qui n'ont vraiment aucun endroit et plus nuisent vraiment à votre cause alors bonne. Vous représentez votre cause pauvrement pas nécessairement à cause du manque de connaissance, mais à cause de votre attitude pompeuse et impolie qui fait le peu disposé indécis pour mettre en ligne avec quelqu'un si amer, plein de ressentiment et moi vertueux.

Please excuse my poor french, i'm not fluent
I'll be out of town for the next while. So i won't be as able to respond to the posts as frequently for the next few weeks. Good Luck

Merry Christmas

 

[frenchie]

Je regrette que nous ne puissions pas avoir une bonne conversation sur ici sans vous organisant tous dans les bras avec votre pitié moi l'attitude, suivie par votre du contexte les remarques sarcastiques qui n'ont vraiment aucun endroit et plus nuisent vraiment à votre cause alors bonne. Vous représentez votre cause pauvrement pas nécessairement à cause du manque de connaissance, mais à cause de votre attitude pompeuse et impolie qui fait le peu disposé indécis pour mettre en ligne avec quelqu'un si amer, plein de ressentiment et moi vertueux.

Please excuse my poor french, i'm not fluent
I'll be out of town for the next while. So i won't be as able to respond to the posts as frequently for the next few weeks. Good Luck

Merry Christmas

Pretty sad Beef11 I ask you a few questions and you run away
Bye.

And yes I am resentfull of R-calf so what.. Impolite sometimes , Pompous perhaps

 

[Beef11]

I haven't ever claimed to be an RCALF expert. If I do know something I'll ask you? I don't have any idea what Oldtimer said about the usda vets. I don't keep track of Rcalfs whereabouts. sorry. KEEP IN MIND I'M NOT A MEMBER OR A SUPPORTER. Just poking around trying to figure with who to align myself. Rcalf, NCBA, or Other.

I am not a "traditional rancher" so to speak so my expectations of an organization are different. By the pound pricing is important to me but not central.

 

[frenchie]

I haven't ever claimed to be an RCALF expert. .

Did I say you were..

I don't have any idea what Oldtimer said about the usda vets.

Do a search if you like

I don't keep track of Rcalfs whereabouts. sorry.

That was over your head was,nt it....

The point of that comment was that If R-Calf was so comcerned over B.S.E, Why did they not look into it.
feel free not to answer..

I am not a "traditional rancher" so to speak so my expectations of an organization are different. By the pound pricing is important to me but not central.

Not sure I understand that...

 

[Beef11]

"I haven't ever claimed to be an RCALF expert"
-BEEF11
"Did I say you were.. "
-Frenchie

"I don't keep track of Rcalfs whereabouts"
-BEEF11

"That was over your head was,nt it....

The point of that comment was that If R-Calf was so comcerned over B.S.E, Why did they not look into it.
feel free not to answer.. "
-frenchie

"KEEP IN MIND I'M NOT A MEMBER OR A SUPPORTER"
-BEEF11

"I am not a "traditional rancher" so to speak so my expectations of an organization are different. By the pound pricing is important to me but not central."

-BEEF11

"Not sure I understand that..."
-Frenchie

That means that I wasn't born into a family with a ranch for me to inherit. Nor was i born into a Family with money to buy me a ranch (either one would have been nice). Meaning commodity beef prices have a less direct effect on my business. They still do have a large effect but i'm not dependant on it. Therefore I tend to pay attention to other issues also.

 

[houstoncutter]

Let me see if I got this straight... R-Calf is a bunch of commies... NCBA is our friend, of course their spokesman said he was against Cool , because it would be a burden on producers, of course NCBA is for animal ID, but somehow its not gonna be a burden on cattle producers....... and finally Frenchie is saying were all DUH.....this from a guy who lives in a country were you gotta have two different labels on a can. Whats next 3 labels one English, one French, and one First Nations, (thats means indians, for you commie rednecks types that arent politically correct) Merry XMAS, and beam me up

 

[frenchie]

Let me see if I got this straight... R-Calf is a bunch of commies...

Think about It R-calf is asking that The U.S goverment intervene in a free enterprise system.Thats smacks of socialism.
Do you want more Gov,t in your bizness.

NCBA is our friend, of course their spokesman said he was against Cool , because it would be a burden on producers, of course NCBA is for animal ID, but somehow its not gonna be a burden on cattle producers....

How can you fully implement Cool without Animal ID ...You can,t.

.

..... and finally Frenchie is saying were all DUH..

.

.No i was talking to Oldtimer..When he stated an obvious fact that South American beef would have to come through Central AMerica ...What he leaves out is they are going to have to free of F.M.D.....Houstoncutter does the hat still fit ;-) ..

 

[frenchie]

"I am not a "traditional rancher" so to speak so my expectations of an organization are different. By the pound pricing is important to me but not central."

-BEEF11

"Not sure I understand that..."
-Frenchie

That means that I wasn't born into a family with a ranch for me to inherit. Nor was i born into a Family with money to buy me a ranch (either one would have been nice). Meaning commodity beef prices have a less direct effect on my business. They still do have a large effect but i'm not dependant on it. Therefore I tend to pay attention to other issues also.

You will find a lot of people like that on this board. That did not have everything handed to them.However having said that I,m glad for the guy that was able to receive a hand up.

 

[houstoncutter]

Frenchie, your right I dont wont more goverment, I just want a goverment that will inforce anti-trust laws that are already on the books... AS for animal ID, I dont have a problem with it, having said that, NCBA cant say its not going to be a burden on ranchers. They dont even have a figure for what it is going to cost to implement it... Amazing as they were able to pull a figure outa the air as to what COOL was going to cost.... Futhermore if we do animal ID it will not cost one cent more to comply with COOL as the work will have already been done. The problem is the packer doesnt want that, and what the packer wants he gets by NCBA standards. That is why R-CALF scares the heck outa the packers... They are afraid it wont be business as usual. That goes for either side of the border, they will not be able to mix good US or good Canadian beef with the crap they are bringing in from other 3rd world countries, and then stamping it as USDA.

 

[frenchie]

.. Futhermore if we do animal ID it will not cost one cent more to comply with COOL as the work will have already been done.

You missed the point ..how can you have Cool without Animal ID?

 

[Oldtimer]

.. Futhermore if we do animal ID it will not cost one cent more to comply with COOL as the work will have already been done.

You missed the point ..how can you have Cool without Animal ID?

Very easy-- Everything (beef and live cattle) coming into the country today is labeled or marked as to its country of origin...We just need a law to require that the packers and retailers can't remove that labeling and use the USDA inspected stamp to pass it off as a US product.......

Current Homeland Security laws are requiring that retailers retain a record of the paperwork trail as to the origin of all imported products-But they still don't have to label it for the consumer..Every thing required to have COOL is there- except for the requirement that the packers and retailers tell the consumer the truth........

 

[houstoncutter]

No Frnchie, I think maybe you missed the point. Packers and NCBA say that COOL regs are cumbersome.....But with the same breath they will tell you that animal ID is not.... They are both doing the same thing......only the packer will not be able to comingle products and the consumer will know where there beef came from.

 

[frenchie]

.. Futhermore if we do animal ID it will not cost one cent more to comply with COOL as the work will have already been done.

You missed the point ..how can you have Cool without Animal ID?

Very easy-- Everything (beef and live cattle) coming into the country today is labeled or marked as to its country of origin.................

Talk is cheap wait till you get to the kill floor in the slaughterhouses. It will never happen....

 

[frenchie]

No Frnchie, I think maybe you missed the point. Packers and NCBA say that COOL regs are cumbersome...

By cumbersome they likely mean its difficult to segeragate at the packers


.

..But with the same breath they will tell you that animal ID is not.... They are both doing the same thing..

No they are not doing the same thing ....One is identifying country of origin , the other ranch of origin....which has the most benefit in a diease outbreak?