LBW and High Growth...Needing good advice

[houstoncutter]

Texan is dead on with his observations, nothing wrong with a Angus bull, but you might get sticker shock trying to buy one with a low bw and a high ww. That usually will be a curve bender in the Angus breed, the type of bull that a seedstock producer will be after, hence a much higher priced to be paid, and justly so. Limi's, Simi's, Murry Greys , Brangus , Gerts or any number of bulls will get the job done with less cash outlay.

 

[Aero]

any other shameless plugs?

the count is 2 out of 6 posts so far.

Yes, as a matter of fact there are......

Msscamp, while we're on the subject of shameless plugs, I think we should count Aero's. Seems he inadvertently left something out of an earlier post:

fyi - MARC data shows the cross-breed adjustment from Angus to Charolais being 10.0 lbs. meaning a +2.0 BW Charolais would be the same as using a +12.0 BW Angus.

What about the rest of the story, Aero? The cross-breed adjustment for weaning weight? Since that adjustment for Charolais is 38.4 pounds, what exactly does that mean? I'm not really up on epd's, but does that mean that a Charolais with a +50 would be similar to an Angus with a +88?

You want to make a big deal about a 10 pound bigger calf? Out of mature cows that have a job to do? Whatever, but I think I'll just take that bigger calf and those 38 extra pounds at weaning (53 by yearling). And I'll add that extra weight to the extra growth from heterosis by using the Continental bull on those English X cows.

I'll multiply all those extra pounds by the number of calves I sell at weaning and then I'll multiply that by $1.20 or $1.30 per pound and just stick that extra money in my pocket. And never worry one minute about a mature cow having a long-bodied, 80 pound calf. They can do it in their sleep, so there's sure no use in me laying awake nights worrying over it.

i agree with everything you said. it seemed obvious that charolais calves are going to wean a lot more pounds. i just like to point out the BW difference because its a safety/major work difference. having calves without assistance is priority No. 1 for me. this is the reason i will give up payweight for stability. Maybe it's just different philosophies.

 

[cypressfarms]

I live 70 miles from the land and I do all my work on the weekends, so it would be scary for me to have to worry about pulling calves.

If East Caney lives 70 miles from the cattle, all the talking in the world wouldn't make me get a Char. or Limi. I'm not as familiar with M. Grays as I should be.

But, E.C., I would stress low BW. If you drive up on Saturday and find a dead calf (or worse- cow and calf), how many % of your herd/profit have you lost? Even if you wean less lbs. to sell, is the benefit for the risk exposed worth it in your mind?

IMO, you need to decide what's best for you, because only you know all of the details of your operation. Angus bulls with low BW and high WW are expensive. Why not A.I. to a proven bull that will let you have some peace of mind?

 

[Anonymous]

Here's my 2 cents worth.I have had a Hereford,Santa Gertrudis,Charlois and presently Angus.You could not give me another Santa Gert bull And the Charlois bull had great calves but they were pretty big calves and I had to pull 5 or 6 of his calves.I kept him 2 breeding seasons and I would rather sleep peacefully with an Angus bull than worry about pulling calves.The hereford bull was fine to.But that is just my 2 cents worth,everyone may disagree.

What is the reason you would not use a gert bull to breed back to. I am just curious.

 

[Scotty]

Here's my 2 cents worth.I have had a Hereford,Santa Gertrudis,Charlois and presently Angus.You could not give me another Santa Gert bull And the Charlois bull had great calves but they were pretty big calves and I had to pull 5 or 6 of his calves.I kept him 2 breeding seasons and I would rather sleep peacefully with an Angus bull than worry about pulling calves.The hereford bull was fine to.But that is just my 2 cents worth,everyone may disagree.

What is the reason you would not use a gert bull to breed back to. I am just curious.

He is into hand bags.

Scotty

 

[hillbilly]

Texans observations are sound.
You can now buy char bulls that would work in this
situation. no waking up in the middle of the night with
bad dreams.
But, I still consider Char bulls to be terminal sires.
I don't want a bunch of 1800# cows that don't give enough
milk.....I hate feeding hay and they can eat as much as an
elephant.

hillbilly

 

[East Caney]

Thanks for all your advice. It sounds like I should probably go for a LBW Angus bull of good quality. In detailing my operation, I estimated everything on the low end, so I could probably settle with a calf being a few pounds lighter at weaning. Besides, bringing any money on a calf is better than losing a pair. Thanks for the tips on locating bulls.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Look into the Murray Greys before you make a final decision..you will be glad that you did. I do not know where you are located,but I am sure that there will be a MG breeder in you general area. ;-) :cboy:

 

[East Caney]

I pass by a Murray Grey breeder every time I go to the place. I'll check into them. Will I suffer that much by going away from something that will throw black calves? What are the birth-weight comparisons between Murray Greys, Angus, and Simmentals? I've got some learning to do when it comes to EPDs.

 

[hillbilly]

I pass by a Murray Grey breeder every time I go to the place. I'll check into them. Will I suffer that much by going away from something that will throw black calves? What are the birth-weight comparisons between Murray Greys, Angus, and Simmentals? I've got some learning to do when it comes to EPDs.

Murrary Greys & Angus are simular.
Sim"mentals" are not simular to either.

hillbilly

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

I pass by a Murray Grey breeder every time I go to the place. I'll check into them. Will I suffer that much by going away from something that will throw black calves? What are the birth-weight comparisons between Murray Greys, Angus, and Simmentals? I've got some learning to do when it comes to EPDs.

If black is what you want,you can get that with Murray Grey cattle. ;-) :cboy:

 

[longhorn314]

Here's my 2 cents worth.I have had a Hereford,Santa Gertrudis,Charlois and presently Angus.You could not give me another Santa Gert bull And the Charlois bull had great calves but they were pretty big calves and I had to pull 5 or 6 of his calves.I kept him 2 breeding seasons and I would rather sleep peacefully with an Angus bull than worry about pulling calves.The hereford bull was fine to.But that is just my 2 cents worth,everyone may disagree.

What is the reason you would not use a gert bull to breed back to. I am just curious.

I had a nice gert bull 10 years ago and I was having really big calves out of him and I lost a few that year and I couldn't handle that anymore and I wasn't overthrilled with the calves.