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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
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Thing about certain competition down here is that some judges judge off of the status of the person showing not even actual looks of the cattle they are showing that's why I just am unsure
Lazy show heifer problems
- Thread starter TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
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Hpacres440p
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You never know unless you go. Do as many jackpots and local shows as you can-you'll both get experience and maybe some prize $ to help with paying for all that fun!
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
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We've definitely been doing jackpots I was so happy when we got the breed champion ribbons but I would kill for a buckle or one of those awesome buckle cups
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
That is NOT a regional problem. There can be prejudices in all shows. But, if you've got a good one, the judge is not going to make himself look like a fool and bury her, unless he can see a definite flaw.
Go to some shows. See how she does.
Go to some shows. See how she does.
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
Well-known member
The problem at my first show he said she was too moderate I have most certainly fixed that
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
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?? Too moderate generally is referring to height/size. Can't "fix" height. You can put more weight on them - that is NOT referred to as "moderate". Looks like you have her fat enough by the looks of her tailhead.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
"Red angus she doesn't walk perfect yet nothing wrong with her legs I've gotten ribbons with her for breed champ at our second show so idk"
WALKING is everything. Maybe she needs her hooves trimmed. Sometimes when they get too much nutrition, their feed grow faster than they wear them down.
But, no matter how good she looks standing still - a GOOD judge won't use her if they have anything better.
WALKING is everything. Maybe she needs her hooves trimmed. Sometimes when they get too much nutrition, their feed grow faster than they wear them down.
But, no matter how good she looks standing still - a GOOD judge won't use her if they have anything better.
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
Well-known member
at my first show I think the judge judged me the way he did because I didn't set her up properly and the other one was set up the right way but that heifer was not" better" in comparison to my heifer they were about the same I would say. it was only the first show I ever went to anyways and I shouldn't have expected much
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
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As for what I cannot stand about her is that weird fat patch by her tailhead with all those unfilled gaps I wish I could fill it in I just don't know what to feed or supplement for it to fill
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
Well-known member
And the judge said that there was stuff he would change about both of them but anyways I don't wanna keep you I appreciate all the input!
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Those fat pockets by her tailhead is telling you she is TOO FAT. Looks like her brisket is also filled out. There is a product called Purina's Fitter 52. It works on getting rid of their fat pockets. No matter how much fat you put on her, you cannot replace lacking muscling.
If the judge criticized how she walked, he would definitly use an equal quality animal over one he did not like legs. Not saying she isn't worthy of showing, but walking SHOULD be #1.
If the judge criticized how she walked, he would definitly use an equal quality animal over one he did not like legs. Not saying she isn't worthy of showing, but walking SHOULD be #1.
RDFF
Well-known member
Everybody's suggestions for training them to walk on when you want them to are good............ it's no different for any animal.
You don't want to be PULLING her, ever. You want her to give in to your command to walk on.
Same with a colt (or a child). They need to understand and recognize who is in charge, and what their role in relationship to that hierarchy is. THAT'S why you tie them to the post, and walk away. The post is NOT going to pull on her, but it also is not going to give in to her... no matter how hard she might pull. It WILL however establish dominance, period, and she WON'T win against it, unless the post or the rope breaks. In that case, you need bigger of both (thus the tractor instead of a Ranger which she might be able to pull against and win).
However, as soon as she does "give" to the post, she is automatically and immediately rewarded with a release of the pressure... EVERY time, period. She'll learn pretty quickly not to pull and to "release" her pressure by moving forward, as soon as she feels it applied on the halter. Then you will use that learned response to your advantage by rewarding her when she "gives to you" when you're on the end of the lead rope instead of the post. If she gives you one step, DON'T immediately ask for another in sequence (asking for more than she's ready to give you), but instead, reward her, tell her she's a good girl, scratch her on the head, stroke her neck. THEN ask her to give you that ONE STEP again. DON'T fight with her, and for sure, DON'T PULL HER WITH THE TRACTOR...... the tractor is just so that your "moveable post" is big enough for her not to be able to establish her dominance over it by dragging it in the direction SHE wants to go. YOU always have to be the dominant one in the relationship. But YOU also have to be a kind, pleasant individual that she appreciates being around, and that TEACHES her that she did the right thing by giving in to your applied pressure. Dragging her around a pasture surely isn't going to help in the least.
It's all about asking for a response, her recognizing and understanding the ask, and then you rewarding her for giving you that response. Be consistent in your asking... always using the same cues. And ALWAYS give her that reward when she responds appropriately. Eventually, you'll be able to ask for more ( ask for two steps in a row, then four... then ten,... then walking on and her just following behind you without ever even tightening up the lead rope), and she'll be willing to give you more. Done right, she'll "learn" fairly quickly that this is a "learning trajectory"......... that always uses the same formula.............. asked for response, proper response given, reward given. And remember, the preferred ultimate "reward" is the release of the "pressure". That's how you get to those beautiful "drooping loose reins" on a reining horse, for example, or a hanging relaxed head on a really good cutting horse. Watch any of these on a really well trained animal, and you can hardly see the rider "cueing" the animal at all............ that's because the cues have become so subtle they're almost imperceptible. THAT'S what the judges WANT to see in the showing with your heifer or steer too.... a well trained animal that responds appropriately to its "master".
Don't "ask" for more than she's ready to be able to give to you.... they need to walk before they know how to run.
You don't want to be PULLING her, ever. You want her to give in to your command to walk on.
Same with a colt (or a child). They need to understand and recognize who is in charge, and what their role in relationship to that hierarchy is. THAT'S why you tie them to the post, and walk away. The post is NOT going to pull on her, but it also is not going to give in to her... no matter how hard she might pull. It WILL however establish dominance, period, and she WON'T win against it, unless the post or the rope breaks. In that case, you need bigger of both (thus the tractor instead of a Ranger which she might be able to pull against and win).
However, as soon as she does "give" to the post, she is automatically and immediately rewarded with a release of the pressure... EVERY time, period. She'll learn pretty quickly not to pull and to "release" her pressure by moving forward, as soon as she feels it applied on the halter. Then you will use that learned response to your advantage by rewarding her when she "gives to you" when you're on the end of the lead rope instead of the post. If she gives you one step, DON'T immediately ask for another in sequence (asking for more than she's ready to give you), but instead, reward her, tell her she's a good girl, scratch her on the head, stroke her neck. THEN ask her to give you that ONE STEP again. DON'T fight with her, and for sure, DON'T PULL HER WITH THE TRACTOR...... the tractor is just so that your "moveable post" is big enough for her not to be able to establish her dominance over it by dragging it in the direction SHE wants to go. YOU always have to be the dominant one in the relationship. But YOU also have to be a kind, pleasant individual that she appreciates being around, and that TEACHES her that she did the right thing by giving in to your applied pressure. Dragging her around a pasture surely isn't going to help in the least.
It's all about asking for a response, her recognizing and understanding the ask, and then you rewarding her for giving you that response. Be consistent in your asking... always using the same cues. And ALWAYS give her that reward when she responds appropriately. Eventually, you'll be able to ask for more ( ask for two steps in a row, then four... then ten,... then walking on and her just following behind you without ever even tightening up the lead rope), and she'll be willing to give you more. Done right, she'll "learn" fairly quickly that this is a "learning trajectory"......... that always uses the same formula.............. asked for response, proper response given, reward given. And remember, the preferred ultimate "reward" is the release of the "pressure". That's how you get to those beautiful "drooping loose reins" on a reining horse, for example, or a hanging relaxed head on a really good cutting horse. Watch any of these on a really well trained animal, and you can hardly see the rider "cueing" the animal at all............ that's because the cues have become so subtle they're almost imperceptible. THAT'S what the judges WANT to see in the showing with your heifer or steer too.... a well trained animal that responds appropriately to its "master".
Don't "ask" for more than she's ready to be able to give to you.... they need to walk before they know how to run.
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
Well-known member
So update on her I have been tying her up for the last like 4? days tonight I walked her around almost seamlessly oh my gosh is what I thought.
she got some pets for sure it was awesome i dont want anyone to think I'm a horrible animal abusing person so please don't i didn't understand about the ranger and tractor thing so please forgive me but this advice yall have given me has changed the game for me it would just get sooo frustrating trying to tug and pull her around the yard like geez but she glided tonight it was so nice! like literal magic! so I appreciate everything!
RDFF
Well-known member
I used to be in charge of raising our dairy calves, weaned from Momma at 1-2 days, and thrown into individual calf huts. Started out using little fences in front of each one....... what a horrible, labor intensive mess. Eventually tore out all those hard to work with, high maintenance, high cost fences, and drove in a T post on the corner of the hut by the door, dropped a lightweight 10' chain over it, and slipped the other end around the calf's neck (no halter).
Calves stayed tied at that hut for 2 months, fought with the chain for maybe a day or part of a day, and when I took them down to the barn, they were all already halter broke.............. for life. I'd just lift the chain off the T post and walk 'em about 1000' to the barn. A beautiful thing................
Glad she came to you so quickly....................... isn't it an awesome thing when you literally see it happening right before your eyes? I've never seen any animal move so far so quickly as a young colt, pulling for all he's worth, wide-eyed and ears laid back.................. and if done right, some of 'em can literally have their head buried under your arm in like 5 minutes. Or................. you can hang 'em on the back of the tractor and drag 'em for days and then potentially NEVER be able to get them there., because you've destroyed the animal's ability to ever be able to trust you.
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
Well-known member
You are so absolutely right it is amazing to have seen her cooperate so amazingly fast!
RDFF
Well-known member
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TheQueenOfDiamondSheen
Well-known member
Another update! I can walk her all the way down the driveway and back without a single stop and I've been tying her head faithfully as well!
Excellent !.
It's all about being consistent.
It's all about being consistent.
