Late castration ?

[S.R.R.]

Been doing some reading on waiting till 500-600 lbs before turning your bulls into steers. Some say it makes the meat tender and adds growth to your animals without implants. The animal also do not get sick as often. At 500-600lbs the bull is banded.

 

[Brandonm2]

I usually steer calves in the first 90 days. When I have had 500-600 pound bulls I just took the dock and sold them with the nuts on. There is no question that the intact bull outgains the nonimplanted steer and I believe he outgains the implanted steer. All the implant really is doing is putting back in some of the hormones you took out of him by cutting off his gonads. Supposedly we are getting paid a premium by the market per pound for steering the calf (even though we are losing pounds in the process). I have doubts that the 20 pounds we sacrifice were paid for by that premium. I am probably too lazy to get up a whole bunch of 600 pound bulls, band all of them, and turn around and recatch the whole bunch 30 days later for shipping. There may be some extra money in there; but you are really earning it.

 

[Bez]

Been doing some reading on waiting till 500-600 lbs before turning your bulls into steers. Some say it makes the meat tender and adds growth to your animals without implants. The animal also do not get sick as often. At 500-600lbs the bull is banded.

You can do it at any age - cut / pinch / etc.

Done old bulls and newborns - just depends on what you want to do.

Bez

 

[TRIPLEDFARMS1]

WE TAGEM CUTTEM RIGHT WHEN MOM GETS CLEANED OFF LESS STRESS IN MY OPION AND SEEM TO GROW FASTER THEN BULL CALVES HAVE

 

[Stocker Steve]

Either late cutting or late banding sets a bull back. I have been using a Calibrate bander. It always works but you can end up with an infected stub once in a while.

The companies selling implants publish (select?) data that shows banding sets them back a longer period of time than cutting - - and that early cutting or banding plus multiple implants will end up with the most pounds. Of course you have to catch that calf several times to do all the work...

Have you seen or tried late banding and then cutting off the sac after 7 to 10 days?

 

[Kent]

If you will be keeping the steers with heifers before you sell them, be SURE you get the band as high as you can on the bulls' cords when banding them. The cords have sperm-producing cells on them at the point where they join the testicles. I wound up with a couple of heifers bred to their half brothers one year (the first year I banded the bulls late). It was quite a surprise.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

if you do band them at 500 pounds be sure to give them a tetanus shot are your just asking for trouble. i had rather do it after birth because they are going to market at 5-6 weight .

 

[S.R.R.]

So in most peoples case they did not find that the end produce was a faster growing calf?

 

[dph]

Here's a question. We have been castarating at around 90 days of age. My question is that every year we seem to battle a few claves that swell afterwards and need to be re-treated. What is going on? Neighbors runs them through and never have to re-treat. We have a vet do it, and he is reputable. But if you listen to them guys, we are a little towards the tail end of castrating calves, most their customers do it at around 30 days.

 

[jt]

Here's a question. We have been castarating at around 90 days of age. My question is that every year we seem to battle a few claves that swell afterwards and need to be re-treated. What is going on? Neighbors runs them through and never have to re-treat. We have a vet do it, and he is reputable. But if you listen to them guys, we are a little towards the tail end of castrating calves, most their customers do it at around 30 days.

what kind of retreatment are you talking about... do they get infected..

at that age, all of em are going to swell up some. have cut and been around bunches of em cut at that age. it is rare for one to have major problems..

we cut the bottom of the sac off, pull 2, and make sure we get both cords well up into the sac... spray em and turn em out..

maybe what we call normal, you are calling in need of re-treatment?? since you have a vet doing yours, i would certainly think they are getting done properly..??

jt

 

[Susie David]

We band them at two weeks, wash with antiseptic and turn them back with their mamas.

 

[Longtails4Me]

I am no vet, but I cut bulls five days week. Mine will NOT swell. The most important trick I have ever learned is to make two cuts. One at the bottom of the sack, to remove the jewels, as others have described. The other cut is towards the top of the sack,to remove it when you are done.
Take the empty sack and pull down on it, go about an inch from his belly, and cut the whole sack off. This leaves enough skin to cover the wound, but not enough to catch blood and cause swelling problems. Everything drains, and heals much better. If they have a lot of fat hanging, I usually trim this as well. His bag won't swell if it is cut off.

I use this method if I'm cutting a baby calf, or a #900 lb. bull,
out of habit. The bigger the animal, the more important this technique is. Tell your vet to cut the sacks off, it looks neater,
and heals faster.

 

[dph]

Jt, thanks for the response. Talking about re-swelling. Every year it is pretty much a given we may have to get 5-10% of the steers back in (around 5 head) and reopen the sac and drain it. Normally this will be 1 week after weaning. In fact just got 5 through the chute this afternoon. Two drained pretty good, the other three hardly drained anything, but one of them definitely stunk.

Should we give them more time? You sure hate to lose a calf when prices are like this.

I have total confidence in the vet, he is top notch, in fact, imho, one of the very best in our area. Never have trouble with anything but this. He rarely has this trouble with anyone's but ours. He has wondered if it might not be something genetic in our particular herd.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The banding directions I received were to split the distance between the testicles and the belly, and to be sure to not to get too close to the belly.

I saw the message on leaving sperm producing cells in the stub if you are too close to the testicles. What happens when you get too close to the belly?

 

[jt]

Jt, thanks for the response. Talking about re-swelling. Every year it is pretty much a given we may have to get 5-10% of the steers back in (around 5 head) and reopen the sac and drain it. Normally this will be 1 week after weaning. In fact just got 5 through the chute this afternoon. Two drained pretty good, the other three hardly drained anything, but one of them definitely stunk.

Should we give them more time? You sure hate to lose a calf when prices are like this.

I have total confidence in the vet, he is top notch, in fact, imho, one of the very best in our area. Never have trouble with anything but this. He rarely has this trouble with anyone's but ours. He has wondered if it might not be something genetic in our particular herd.

if your vet is top notch, i dont know what the problem is. if i was having that much trouble, i would move the castration date up from 90 days to about 60 days and see what happens. if it is stinking, there is infection.. i would give the calf some penicillin for that, and the risk of tetenas is greater for these calves imo.

is the vet cutting off the bottom 1/4 or so of the sac? or just making little incisions on the side and pulling the testicle out there?

you wean at 90 days??

jt

 

[Kent]

The instructions are correct, just make sure you have someone pull down on the testicles with moderate pressure as you are applying the band. It will be more difficult for the stub to heal if you get too close to the belly, but I have never taken great care not to get too close and have never had a problem.

 

[jt]

dph.. on second thought, i would get someone else to cut my calves next time (assuming you are not going to start doing it) or at least i would go and watch a cattleman in my area cut his calves and make a comparison to how your vet does it.. at 90 days imo you shouldnt be having these problems..

i know problems arise, but i think the rate you are having them is too much..

one other comment... this is not a good time of the year to be cutting calves.. its hot here. i dont cut mine this time of year.. i will cut early or late, but not now.


jt

 

[jt]

stocker steve, if you get the band up against the belly it will make for more sore and infection possibilities... you want the sore area to be on the sac and not the belly.

jt

 

[ctlbaron]

If you band them too high it leaves an ugly open place that may get infected. Banding them between the top of the berries and the belly leaves a little room to close off before the berries fall off. Screw worm spray them a couple of times after the berries fall off and they are no problem most of the time.

 

[dph]

jt: I agree, these problems are too frequent. Especially compared to other clients of this clinic in our area.

This isn't when we have normally cut calves. We got a cool week last week and went ahead and got them done. We used to cut them about 3 weeks prior to weaning, which is from Oct. 15- Nov. 1, depending on weather. As we have improved the calving distribution of the herd, and pasture conditions, the calves got progressively bigger. Three years ago we had some trouble and the vet suggested moving castration up. Last year we ran them through the chute the 1st of July, and it worked well. This year we were 15 days late due to trying to get the second cutting of hay up and waiting for the weather to cooperate. This was coupled with finally getting the distribution of calves awfully close to where I want it. I think we will move to 60 days next year, if not sooner. The smaller calves are almost never a problem. We had another vet, in the same clinic, cut some of the other calves, and a couple of them have swollen.

I explained to the vet this morning what we noticed in the 5 calves we treated. The next time I stop in, we are going to get together and figure out something different for next year. He cuts a lot of calves in our area, with few problems, infact, none others that I know of, and I am very comfortable with him. I really think it is something with us or our calves.

We could be too picky. With the exception of the one that smelled, which obviously had infection, I wonder if the others were all right. The two that drained didn't have an odor, and the other two were kind of hard with very little drainage. Their sac wasn't swollen to the point that it looked like it would burst, but it was still "full" compared to the others that had started to shrink. The vet thought "maybe," but added it is better to be safe than sorry.

We have open ponds, and I often wonder if they don't pick infection up by walking off in there. Do you think that is a problem?

The neighbor doesn't have problems, but I don't believe they are getting the size of the calves we are. I would guess the avg. of the calves we ran through for re-treatment was around 400 pounds. Still, one should think that shouldn't be a problem.

Oh, he cuts the bottom of the sac off. Maybe not quite a 1/4 but close. One of the other vets in the clinic uses an emasculator, which just makes an incision.

I guess the plan for next year is to move it up to the first or middle of June. I believe we will stay with the same clinic, although I know very much what you are saying JT. Last year went better with the same vet at an earlier time, which is why I would like to try it again next year. Same next year, then a fellow has done all he can do but change vets. By far, of all things dealing with herd health, this is the thing that concerns me the most with our herd, trying to figure out what exactly is going on. Thanks for all the info and suggestions JT