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Large frame Polled Herefords

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Ch8

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"Ace Broker"....Yeah, I said it...Does anyone know where he was bred? Who might have any straws on him? Was there any collected? I'm looking for others with frame size 8 and up...Any other sites out there come to mind... Descendents of him? I'm looking for frame, and style...Yes, I know moderate is efficient and trends are where they are. I am just wanting some heifers that are not 4-5 frame...I miss those solid 6 -7 frame cows. The ones that cover ground well and still have rib and depth...Thanks Hereford Enthusiast's.
 

JHH

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Don't know anything about him. But if u want big u might see if you can get semen on some of the ochs breeding. They were 2800 lb plus.
 
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Ch8

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I understand, and my favorite bull of all time is still CRR About Time 743, BUT...I like BIG Cows! Too moderate too often these days.
 

Aaron

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Mohican Polled Herefords, Glenmont, Ohio bred Broker. Although he was huge, he did transmit some milk into his daughters. Not like many other's in the 80's. My first purebred cow was a Broker grandaughter.

Lots of bulls to pick from the 80's to increase size. If I was to do it, hunt down semen on either:

JR LB 621 CHIVAS Y168
JR LB 621 STEALTH A99
JR LB 621 COSSACK Y166

They were all full brothers (scurred) and their mother 'Crystal' and sister 'Cassandra' were just gorgeous cows for the time - best to ever come out of the John E Rice Herd. Based on where the breed went in the 80's, they were far ahead of their time in terms of function and udder quality. I was the last person to register offspring in this country off Chivas. AHA records say that SK Herefords http://www.skherefords.com/bulls.htm has US rights to him. I would buy a good son off one of those bulls in a heartbeat. They were mama makers.

If your not worried about udder quality and just want nice big deep barrel mama cows, many of the Butler bulls did just that. Nick the Butler P183, Domino 15G, BT Butler 452M.

If you want frame size and nothing else, Glenkirk bulls are your poison. GK Turning Point X53 was huge, 8-9 frame. I used his son, GK Tradewind Z8 and cows were just monsters that didn't milk. Turning Point's brother, GK Rushmore Y8 was used a lot to add frame. He was one of the biggest I remember, I think a frame 9.2 or 9.5.

But those big frame bulls also can have cow killer birthweights - 130-150 lbs. And the calves will starve because the daughters had no milk.
 

Aaron

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JR LB 621 CHIVAS Y168

One of the few Polled Hereford bulls I would be willing to use at the drop of a hat, without question.

 
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Ch8

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Good stuff! Your knowledge is appreciated.
Yes, milk matters as well as udders...I fear the infamous "Coke bottles". I am researching the Bulls you have suggested.
 

elkwc

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I can see where ch8 is coming from. The moderation in frame has went to far in many Herefords. I want one at least a frame 5.5 but prefer 6.0. And it is hard to find one that fits that criteria anymore and weigh over a ton unless they are carrying a lot of white muscle. Some have been compacted too far. They are short in heigth and length.
 
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Ch8

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Yes, elkwc...I concur. I just like bigger frame cows. A cow that makes you look twice. In my opinion, a 6 frame cow with good hip and rib and udder, will be of more demand than a 4 or 5 frame with as good hip,rib and udder. I would also like to be able to use an array of bulls and not worry so much about that BW. A larger frame Cow can give me a little more versatility and assurance come calving time. Sure, they cost a little more to feed or maintain, but I believe in quality not quantity. But, TN,KY,NC...different market and grass and climate and all. I know this is not for everyone, but...there is a demand for larger Brood Hereford Cows.
 

ez14.

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Silver":2066nj4l said:
This is heresy! You guys will surely be burned at the stake!!!!
I'll help you burn them then we can divide their cattle between us! :cowboy:
 

elkwc

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Ch8":2segsvil said:
Yes, elkwc...I concur. I just like bigger frame cows. A cow that makes you look twice. In my opinion, a 6 frame cow with good hip and rib and udder, will be of more demand than a 4 or 5 frame with as good hip,rib and udder. I would also like to be able to use an array of bulls and not worry so much about that BW. A larger frame Cow can give me a little more versatility and assurance come calving time. Sure, they cost a little more to feed or maintain, but I believe in quality not quantity. But, TN,KY,NC...different market and grass and climate and all. I know this is not for everyone, but...there is a demand for larger Brood Hereford Cows.

Well stated. We've been selling some older cows over the last 3 years. Most have been 13-16 y/o, still sound and raising a calf every year and most have weighed from 1,500 to 1,600. We had one bunch that was just a little above 1,400. But hard to find an Angus or Hereford bull to maintain that frame size. Everyone has moderated them to much for me. The Harland Brothers lived about 40 miles from me. They were very good friends of my BIL. I used to drive by part of their cows on a regular basis. They were big, functional cows. Wish someone still raised them.
 

SPH

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Aaron":elqymbci said:
If your not worried about udder quality and just want nice big deep barrel mama cows, many of the Butler bulls did just that. Nick the Butler P183, Domino 15G, BT Butler 452M.

I would not recommend Nick The Butler to anyone after he tested as a carrier of hypotrichosis. Granted you have to have a cow that is also HYC for it to show up but I'd sure want to avoid using any bulls that tested positive for a known defect as you could be passing them on through his progeny. It's one thing the AHA got right requiring DNA tests on any bulls that calves will be registered by. We DNA test all our sale bulls regardless where they sell to have transparency as well as peace of mind.

I agree with elkwc, give me a good 5+ or 6 frame cow with good depth of rib and length and a good udder and she'll get the job done. Nothing wrong with larger framed cattle but in some environments seems like they can sometimes be hard doers. Some in the Hereford breed got caught up in the frame race around the time Nick The Butler was popular and lost a lot of ground sacrificing some traits that made Herefords desirable.

Around here I think that Hereford breeders are in tune with what the commercial breeder wants in a bull as bulls sales have been very strong here over the past several years. The top selling breed at the Iowa Beef Expo this year was Hereford that averaged nearly $250 more than the Angus bulls did and that is even with the top Angus bull selling for nearly 2 times more than the top selling Hereford bull.
 

elkwc

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SPH":13bzzksx said:
Aaron":13bzzksx said:
If your not worried about udder quality and just want nice big deep barrel mama cows, many of the Butler bulls did just that. Nick the Butler P183, Domino 15G, BT Butler 452M.

I would not recommend Nick The Butler to anyone after he tested as a carrier of hypotrichosis. Granted you have to have a cow that is also HYC for it to show up but I'd sure want to avoid using any bulls that tested positive for a known defect as you could be passing them on through his progeny. It's one thing the AHA got right requiring DNA tests on any bulls that calves will be registered by. We DNA test all our sale bulls regardless where they sell to have transparency as well as peace of mind.

I agree with elkwc, give me a good 5+ or 6 frame cow with good depth of rib and length and a good udder and she'll get the job done. Nothing wrong with larger framed cattle but in some environments seems like they can sometimes be hard doers. Some in the Hereford breed got caught up in the frame race around the time Nick The Butler was popular and lost a lot of ground sacrificing some traits that made Herefords desirable.

Around here I think that Hereford breeders are in tune with what the commercial breeder wants in a bull as bulls sales have been very strong here over the past several years. The top selling breed at the Iowa Beef Expo this year was Hereford that averaged nearly $250 more than the Angus bulls did and that is even with the top Angus bull selling for nearly 2 times more than the top selling Hereford bull.

I agree I wouldn't want a carrier but have seen some very good cows that go back to Nick the Butler. If they are tested and not carriers I see no difference in using his influence than those with Titan in their background. Both were carriers of a defect. Again just my opinion.
 

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