Language

[Nesikep]

I got to thinking a while ago while NC Liz was going on about polio in cattle, and some of the quotes that were offered.
www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=89590 is the one I have in mind and the quote is

Charles Staff, executive director of the Distillers Grains Technology Council, ticks off the issues that have come up in recent years: sulfur content, E. coli, mycotoxins, antibiotics, composition variability and flowability. "Most of them are not completely put to bed, and they may raise their heads in the future," he says. The sulfur issue, for example, popped up in two states this past year, with distillers grains quickly being ruled out as a possible source in both cases. High sulfur levels can cause cattle deaths from a condition commonly called polio, explains Staff

It brought me back to when I was taking my firearms course, and one section of the course was how you portray yourself as a gun owner. The teacher said you should call them by what they are.. *firearms*.. One fellow in particular was always calling his rifle a 'weapon'... but that is more what a person may intend to use it for than what it is. A baseball bat can also be a weapon. Calling your rifle a weapon to the general public can quickly cause you to be looked upon as a danger, giving gun control freaks more ammunition for their cause (pun intended).

Now back to cows

For someone so concerned about the image of the beef industry, proper terminology of a disease is, IMHO, of critical importance. To anyone who doesn't know, and with the recent California headlines, saying the word Polio will get their alarm bells ringing loudly. Polio is a VIRAL DISEASE, and it is quite contagious. Polioencephalomalacia (PEM) is a nutritional imbalance causing polio-like symptoms, it is not contagious or transmissible. There is no cause for alarm for it becoming an epidemic.

Does anyone read BEEF magazine? One of the columnists (Burt Rutherford) there was approached by a young journalist for his thoughts and opinions on beef cattle management and it's influence on antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria. The article is here http://beefmagazine.com/blog/college-st ... ent-217311
He answered somewhere along the lines of "It's a complicated issue", and somewhat brushed them off. WOW, what a mistake! The result was a PR disaster! This journalist had obviously done some research and had either an axe to grind, or an agenda to begin with. But what presented itself as innocuous, could have been a golden opportunity to educate and enlighten, and it was seriously missed.

I'm a bit of a spelling nazi, I do get a couple words wrong here and there, but I'm quite certain I never use the wrong word... I don't have duel purpose cows (I cull the fighters), I know the difference between there, they're, and their. I don't shorten words like 'you' to U, or 'for' to 4, and I always try to spell a persons name correctly. It's a matter of principle that I avoided the principals office! I ensure my truck is insured. It's certainly an uphill battle in this day and age, but I think it's important for credibility and a sign of respect.

*sigh*

 

[Nesikep]

And I missed that Jogeephus had just posted a thread "Literacy, Why it's important"... good timing!

 

[regolith]

With the apparent misequation of polio v. polio I admit to wondering whether the name CCN mightn't be a more understandable way of describing the condition.
Polioencephalomalacia is so rare here that when it was diagnosed in some animals I worked with the vet used its full name, not a short form, as it could be presumed the layman had no prior knowledge of PEM but *was* familiar with the illness of the same short name that affects humans. It took a little longer for me to figure out that this was identical with cerebrocortical necrosis which I had seen in dairy calves at a university in Britain.

"insure" to my observation is always wrongly used by USians, and I presumed was correct in American English. In British/Aust. English ensure means one thing and insure another.

These guys with 'existing agendas' misuse the English language knowingly to create exactly the sort of misunderstanding that serves their purpose. It's not really carelessness. However it's a good reminder to us what the consequences of not being precise can be.

 

[Nesikep]

That was my point, vague language is so easy to twist.. Why is "legalese" the way it is? Firstly to prevent the commoner from understanding it, but as importantly so that it's meanings are exact (an attempt to be at least)

Insure and ensure have the same meanings in American english as any other, they're just always misused

If CCN is in fact exactly the same disease as PEM, I think we'd be better off using that name... it makes no reference to a very feared human disease. On the other hand, someone who doesn't know what it is will go look it up and do a half-@ssed job of reading, and we won't be around to correct them.. If we use PEM and explain it, we can be explicit about what it is... I guess it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Reminds me of another part of the same thread with NC Liz and someone else, asking "What plant produced the DDG" (that was supposedly high in sulfur)... Well, most anyone will understand exactly what that meant,.. as in "what plant made it", however NC Liz somehow interpreted it is as in "you produce your wallet", and that the plant that "produced" this DDG, had bought it from somewhere else. I'll go one step further on that one.. I think the plant that produced it was corn!

 

[inyati13]

You are spending some time thinking.

You made a thoughtful point. Poor communication can be a result of the inadequacy of words. I have thought about certain concepts and the reality that there are not the right words to express them. Emotions and feelings in particular are difficult to express in words. I see examples of the wrong word like the one you used as an example all around us. Here is one that has occupied my mind: The phase. "Trickle Down Economics". The concept behind it is essentially that a capitalistic country needs wealth creators in order for wealth to circulate in the economy. It is vital, but when you make it sound like there is a person at the bottom of the heap that gets only a "trickle"; it sounds like a bad thing. I don't know if the proponents of the concept coined that phase or the opponents. I suspect the opponents.

 

[TexasBred]

I was taught "This is my rifle, this is my gun. One's for fighting, one's for fun". :mrgreen:

 

[Nesikep]

TB hahaha!

Well, I don't know about you, but how's the trickle down economics working on the trillions injected into your economy for the little guys?
I think it was coined by the "big guys" to make it sound like everyone would get something. I think it's pretty optimistic to say half trickles down from each "Tier" in the system... The big guy gets $100, and gives his 2 underlings $50 to spread around, who in turn give $25 to the 4 "lower management", and by the time it gets to the 8 people doing the work, there's about $12.50 left, spread among the 8, that's about enough for a cup of coffee. That's how it's been looking to me. Reminds me of the joke about the monkeys... The bosses sitting up in the trees look down and see smiling faces, the little guys down below look up and see only arseholes

 

[TexasBred]

TB hahaha!

Well, I don't know about you, but how's the trickle down economics working on the trillions injected into your economy for the little guys?
I think it was coined by the "big guys" to make it sound like everyone would get something. I think it's pretty optimistic to say half trickles down from each "Tier" in the system... The big guy gets $100, and gives his 2 underlings $50 to spread around, who in turn give $25 to the 4 "lower management", and by the time it gets to the 8 people doing the work, there's about $12.50 left, spread among the 8, that's about enough for a cup of coffee. That's how it's been looking to me. Reminds me of the joke about the monkeys... The bosses sitting up in the trees look down and see smiling faces, the little guys down below look up and see only arseholes

More correct than you'll ever know. And that's when you need your "rifle". ;-)

 

[Nesikep]

no, I'll be nice and get my 'firearm'. At the moment I only have a Cooey single shot 22, but I mounted a 3-9x40mm scope on it and well, a little hole in the right place is enough in most cases

 

[Jogeephus]

TB hahaha!

Well, I don't know about you, but how's the trickle down economics working on the trillions injected into your economy for the little guys?
I think it was coined by the "big guys" to make it sound like everyone would get something. I think it's pretty optimistic to say half trickles down from each "Tier" in the system... The big guy gets $100, and gives his 2 underlings $50 to spread around, who in turn give $25 to the 4 "lower management", and by the time it gets to the 8 people doing the work, there's about $12.50 left, spread among the 8, that's about enough for a cup of coffee. That's how it's been looking to me. Reminds me of the joke about the monkeys... The bosses sitting up in the trees look down and see smiling faces, the little guys down below look up and see only arseholes

More correct than you'll ever know. And that's when you need your "rifle". ;-)

There must be some confusion here. According to one of our esteemed leaders it works like this.

"Well, people when I say that look at me and say, 'What are you talking about? You're telling me we (DotGov) have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?'" Biden said. "The answer is yes, I'm telling you."

 

[boondocks]

You are spending some time thinking.

You made a thoughtful point. Poor communication can be a result of the inadequacy of words. I have thought about certain concepts and the reality that there are not the right words to express them. Emotions and feelings in particular are difficult to express in words. I see examples of the wrong word like the one you used as an example all around us. Here is one that has occupied my mind: The phase. "Trickle Down Economics". The concept behind it is essentially that a capitalistic country needs wealth creators in order for wealth to circulate in the economy. It is vital, but when you make it sound like there is a person at the bottom of the heap that gets only a "trickle"; it sounds like a bad thing. I don't know if the proponents of the concept coined that phase or the opponents. I suspect the opponents.

I recalled it as being primarily associated with David Stockman (who tried to re-brand it during the Reagan admin as "supply-side economics"). Per Wikipedia it was originally a Will Rogers' expression! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
The interesting quote there, though, came from John Kenneth Galbraith's story of the "horse and sparrow"--so it's an old idea which gets re-branded by each generation

 

[Nesikep]

I got about halfway through a Galbraith book...It was "the age of uncertainty"... I got lost in a sea of names

I did spend a lot of time thinking about it when I was plowing a field... around and around with not much else to do..

 

[lavacarancher]

Right on, Nesi.

 

[D2Cat]

I think it was credited to General MacArthur who said: "Don't ever issue a communique that can be understood. Always issue a communique that can not be misunderstood."

 

[greybeard]

I think it was credited to General MacArthur who said: "Don't ever issue a communique that can be understood. Always issue a communique that can not be misunderstood."

Did any of his subordinates understand that communique?

 

[D2Cat]

Don't know! If one practices that concept it sure eliminates hard feeling and arguments when working with someone. Our mind thinks in pictures but we speak in words. We need to make sure the words paint the correct picture we have. We can often say something and feel it was adequately explanation, but when we come back the result is not the way we wanted.

 

[Nesikep]

Don't know! If one practices that concept it sure eliminates hard feeling and arguments when working with someone. Our mind thinks in pictures but we speak in words. We need to make sure the words paint the correct picture we have. We can often say something and feel it was adequately explanation, but when we come back the result is not the way we wanted.

this is especially true when communicating by text, in which you can't see hand gestures, facial expressions, etc, or hear the tone of voice

 

[moses388]

I got about halfway through a Galbraith book...It was "the age of uncertainty"... I got lost in a sea of names

A sea of names. That sounds like my life. I can probably think of a half dozen people for popular names like John, Dave, Steve. Then there are names like Lynn and Gail. You don't know if it refers to a man or woman. I can think of a few of each.

Some people are offended when you don't remember names. I have been called lots of names. Sometimes I correct the person and sometimes not.

 

[Nesikep]

A sea of names. That sounds like my life. I can probably think of a half dozen people for popular names like John, Dave, Steve. Then there are names like Lynn and Gail. You don't know if it refers to a man or woman. I can think of a few of each.

Some people are offended when you don't remember names. I have been called lots of names. Sometimes I correct the person and sometimes not.

if I meet several people at once and they introduce themselves, their names go in one ear and out the other just that fast and I'm standing there with a dumb look on my face