Landowner problems when leasing

[callmefence]

Okay... I admit it. I don't get the attitude that kids should get participation awards for showing up and the kid that excels should share glory because it might make some poorly performing kid feel bad.

Wth does that have to do with this??
Would you just admit lawyers and cops probably aren't needed to solve a few bales of hay. Travler come on in outta the weeds pull up your chair and let's move on to the next argument..lol

 

[Travlr]

I feel the same way about kids, we are talking about a lease place though. Bottom line is whenever you lease a place you are at someone elses mercy. You can do allot of things to mitigate your risk but you are still just a Tennant that can be evicted at a moments notice. I guess you can pitch a fit and stay for a little while but at the end of the day.....

 

[branxchar&charx]

A month or so ago I mowed ~ 25 acres of bluestem with a hydraulic shredder "to see what was there" didn't know I was being a idiot Thought I was being smart actually. Thanks for straighten that out.

Project much?

Unless its in writing, both the daughter and landowner are in the wrong. Simple as that. Surprised theres so many people on here willing to screw each other over, well maybe not that surprising.

 

[callmefence]

Wth does that have to do with this??
Would you just admit lawyers and cops probably aren't needed to solve a few bales of hay. Travler come on in outta the weeds pull up your chair and let's move on to the next argument..lol

Project much?

Unless its in writing, both the daughter and landowner are in the wrong. Simple as that. Surprised theres so many people on here willing to screw each other over, well maybe not that surprising.

I don't know how you come up with that. I don't think a single person said anything about screwing anyone..
I said i would handle it like a reasonable person. Calling in lawyers and cops imo would be as you put it acting like a idiot from the city.

 

[Brute 23]

I have been on both sides of leases from O&G to cattle to hunting. Most are very expensive leases, that yes, do go to court when people dont hold up their end of the deal.

When I listen to people complain about being "done wrong" 99% of the time it is a communication issue. One of the two parties either didn't know to ask, or didn't want to ask, the tough questions.

A lease in writing is to, most importantly, communicate what is expected by both parties. That one form of communication will resolve most issues.

Right or wrong, if you do handshake deals, don't be mad when the son or daughter-n-law or grandkids show up and screw things up. Be very leary of handshake deals. They benefit the landowner not the leasee.

 

[Travlr]

I am not a beginner, but My landowners around my area seen to not have any common courtesy toward the land I lease to cut hay on. I lease about 200 acres in 2 plots from 2 diffeent landowners. Due to the land here selling for over $7k per acre I cannot afford to buy more land. I am getting too old to pay off a 30 yr note. I lease this land to cut hay on to feed my cattle. It is native bluestem and some has some bermuda grass on it. Both places were in bad shape before I took over. The saller had bluestem but had been cut at ground level and never fertilized for 6 years. I now get over 5 bales to the acre in 2 cuttings. The landowner decided to dump a load of dirt in the middle of the field so his kids could shoot 22 rifles into it. Not to mention if they did this they were aiming at my home. He never said anything until I asked if I was supposed to spread that out or whatever. They never used it and it has been a source of weeds in a field that was weed free for the last 3 years.

Last week I got a call from a neighbor who said someone was mowing the other field I lease for hay. I was 30 minutes away, but when I got there I found the landowners daughter mowing some of the better ground where I get at least 5 bales /acre in 2 cuttings. She decided whe was going to put her horses on about 4 or 5 acres there as she was about to lose the place where she had them... She moved back up here from TX where she was a vet tech. When in TX she gave riding lessons to pay for her 3 horses.... She was going to make these horses pay by giving lessons here. I was never advised of any of this. She kept telling me this was only temporary, then advised that a surveyor was coming out next week to split the field between her Dad and her Uncle who I have been renting from... Of course thie raises a bunch of red flags. Then to really be stupid she mows the entire area where she was going to put those horses so she could see what was there!!!!! I have been cutting it with a sickle swather for the last 3 years...
I cannot afford to fertilize this year. Hay was $50/bale last season and with the fuel and fertilizer costs it will be $75/bale. I told her that every acre she took away cost me at least $250... I didn't seem to make any headway so I left. Her Dad came up and really did not say much... What is wrong with these people?. I don't do anything out of the ordinary on the land unless I talk to them....

I can see that it is time to move to my other farm 70 miles south. Problem is by the time I get things moved in order to sell out, the bottom will fall out of this stupid crazy market. I am 68yrs old. I have a 80 acre development going in next to my 80. It is just getting too crowded.

So damengineer... where are you on this discussion? You began this thread, and have you been reading it as it developed? Curious to know if you've resolved your issues and how.

 

[callmefence]

I have been on both sides of leases from O&G to cattle to hunting. Most are very expensive leases, that yes, do go to court when people dont hold up their end of the deal.

When I listen to people complain about being "done wrong" 99% of the time it is a communication issue. One of the two parties either didn't know to ask, or didn't want to ask, the tough questions.

A lease in writing is to, most importantly, communicate what is expected by both parties. That one form of communication will resolve most issues.

Right or wrong, if you do handshake deals, don't be mad when the son or daughter-n-law or grandkids show up and screw things up. Be very leary of handshake deals. They benefit the landowner not the leasee.

I agree with everything you just said.

Although I do have several leases and do a fair amount of work on the handshake.
Just how I am. I know the risk and accept it. Actually have very few problems. Ive found the saying " never trust a distrustful person" to be pretty spot on.

 

[Brute 23]

I agree with everything you just said.

Although I do have several leases and do a fair amount of work on the handshake.
Just how I am. I know the risk and accept it. Actually have very few problems. Ive found the saying " never trust a distrustful person" to be pretty spot on.

Same here.

 

[Travlr]

I agree with everything you just said.

Although I do have several leases and do a fair amount of work on the handshake.
Just how I am. I know the risk and accept it. Actually have very few problems. Ive found the saying " never trust a distrustful person" to be pretty spot on.

I do business on the handshake too... but if something is going to impact my bottom line, and with someone I've never done business with before, I want a simple contract in writing.

 

[J+ Cattle]

If you are going to be participating in any government programs such as LFP, the FSA office requires a written lease.

 

[damengineer]

Here we are about 4 pages into this and the and we have not heard a peep out of OP. There is more to this than the OP posted. But he really got you folks riled up.

Sorry I have not posted any replies, I have been busy with farm work and cleaning up a place my best friend lived at. He took the shot and died 2 weeks later with a heart attack on the road 1/2 mile away.
This idiot women's Dad, who I have the lease with came out, he is a nice guy, we talked, but he never said he should have let me know what they were doing. It just pisses me off to no end..
I have a farm 70 mils south that has been in the famly since 60. It was leased to a neighbor there by my Dad befre I was given a chance to work it. The lessee had let another guy move in and set up a trailer to live in and help him work the place. I tried to get my Dad to stop this but nmy Dad thought more of the lesee than he did of me, I really believe. Lesee was my best friend growing up..
The guy who moved the trailer in decided to go back to driving a truck and was gone most of the time, so he wasn't much help to the lesee. When my Dad died we were going to write up a lease agreement for the trucker as I did not want to deal with him dying in an accident and having to evict his wife. It turned out I was going to have to go to some expense to survey the property to write a lease. My lawyer said it would be easier to just evict him, but I would have to break the lease. I agreed, but before I culd talk to the lesee, my old friend, the legal letters were delivered, and It tookme 3 years to repair a 60 year friendship...
I don't want to get lawyers in this as it is not worth it. Common courtesy is just too uncommon. I try to be easy going, but these people think that you must be swimming in money if you have any land at all. 2 acres unimproved is selling for $72000 a mile from here..
The pile of dirt is just a pain in the ass to swing around with the equipment, and then it creates so many weeds in a field I have not had to spray in 3 years. I cut my hay at 6-8 inches and fertilize the weeds out of it.. This is why I get irritated at losing hay. I can put my hay and any other hay out and my cows eat mine first... I bale immediately after cutting and it is still green 2 years later..

 

[damengineer]

Put the daughter on the dirt pile. Then let them have target practice!

good idea, but not the same places..

 

[Brute 23]

You need a new lawyer.

 

[damengineer]

So damengineer... where are you on this discussion? You began this thread, and have you been reading it as it developed? Curious to know if you've resolved your issues and how.

No further work has been done, no fences etc. Her Dad is in ICU with some type of tick borne illness. So I guess everything is on hold. Like I said I wish he would have at least said we should have called you, instead of just mowing. I ws ther yesterday and where she mowed probably caused me to lose 4 bales that will cost $100/bale this year..

 

[farmerjan]

We no longer do any new leases without a written contract... to protect both parties... Also in Va we have some pretty good rights as lessee's.... and the lease goes with the property if it is sold... and any real estate agent knows this if dealing with a farmer oriented area.... We do have a few "handshake deals"... and one has just given us a year as their daughter in law doesn't like the cow manure in the driveway of this place that is a summer getaway place. We have offered to run electric fence to keep the cows away from the driveway and house area... but they "don't think it will work"... all because they had fences built by someone they wanted to give work to, that did a stupid design so the cows can walk between the house, on the gravel driveway, and the front area fenced off for picnic, play area for the kids... It really is so dumb the way they did it... and they don't want a cattle guard and hate to open and close gates...so... whatever.... when they lose the ag tax breaks... and have all the grass to deal with as it is not "hayable" due to rocks and such... they will find out. The daughter is great and on our side... and technically she and the brother own it not the parents that are calling the shots... but the brother and his "nose in the air wife" are just too 'out there' to deal with.
Luckily we have not done any work on the building I use for my calves and nurse cows this year...
One reason my son bought the overpriced farm last year... to stop dealing with landowners that don't know what they are talking about...But it is their land... so you get it in writing for protection...

 

[damengineer]

In Oklahoma, the lesee is protected fairly well. A lease cannot be broken without a years notice.. I found that out when we were dealing with the eviction I mentioned. I wish things had not gone the way they did on that, but my old friend is still my oldest and best friend as we mended the fences, so to speak.. I wish I could make the move to the other farm and leave this crazy area. I had a bad experience with one of the biggest farmers in this area the first year I was here. It nearly bankrupted me. I had to take a job with the state to pay off the combine I had bought because of that big farmer. It probably worked out to be the best thing that could have happened. It allowed me to retire at 54 and start my own consulting engineering company.. My Dad & I spent 2 weeks combining oats out of a windrow for this guy and then he refused to pay. The combines I owned decided to turn to crap the day after I started combining. I bought a newer Massey one from the JD dealer so I could finish the job I had agreed to do. All was on a handshake deals as I was taught to honor. The lawyer we ended up with was worthless and went on to be our state representative.

I worked with a old dirt contractor, Larry Denton, may God rest his soul, for the last 12 years who did not use a written contract. We did work all over NW OK. I did the engineering, and he did the excacvation, and we had decided if we needed a written contract, we did not need the work. We built one of the biggest private dams and lakes in western OK on a handshake. It was over $250,000. this fellow was a Vietnam Veteran Marine. He was missing part of his foot, and became one of the best friends I ever had. Sadly his wife passed away with Alzeheimer's and he died a week later. His 4 sons carry on the business as he did. We all miss him every day.. God must have needed a lake in Heaven..