KILL PLANTS

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Anonymous

I know this is subject that a lot of people just do not want to talk about. I understand that the rendering plants have been forced to close because of all the "tree huggers so to speak" but what do you do with all the horses that are out there that are unsound,unfit or to old for use. I know someone will say make pets, give them to someone etc., but that is being tryed with dogs and cats now and look at the strays and animal shelters-overflowing. Is it not better to make "dogfood, Soap or whater" than to let animals suffer and die from neglect. Don't say they do not exist go to the local Saturday horse sales, the cripples, unfit and rejects are there by the 100's that now no one will buy. So my question is should the plants be allowed to remain open and do they serve a useful purpose?
 
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A

Anonymous

Yes, this is a touchy subject! My personal feeling is that if a horse is just "old" and otherwise in acceptable health, the owner should let it live out its natural life at their farm/ranch. If the horse has been injured or has some other problem that cannot be fixed to make them useful again as a breeding stallion or mare, or as a pleasure or trail horse, etc., then the "humane" thing to do would be to take them to the Vet and have them put down via lethal injection. The flip side of the coin is that if you take a horse to be slaughtered, you stand a 50/50 chance of only getting enough money to pay for your gas to the place. Finally, a horse is more of a "friend" than a bovine is and I would never take a horse to be slaughtered...just a peaceful trip to the Vet for an honorable euthanasia.

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Anonymous

> Yes, this is a touchy subject! My
> personal feeling is that if a
> horse is just "old" and
> otherwise in acceptable health,
> the owner should let it live out
> its natural life at their
> farm/ranch. If the horse has been
> injured or has some other problem
> that cannot be fixed to make them
> useful again as a breeding
> stallion or mare, or as a pleasure
> or trail horse, etc., then the
> "humane" thing to do
> would be to take them to the Vet
> and have them put down via lethal
> injection. The flip side of the
> coin is that if you take a horse
> to be slaughtered, you stand a
> 50/50 chance of only getting
> enough money to pay for your gas
> to the place. Finally, a horse is
> more of a "friend" than
> a bovine is and I would never take
> a horse to be slaughtered...just a
> peaceful trip to the Vet for an
> honorable euthanasia.

While I second Bills responce,I happen to live in an area where we can bury our animals in the ground,not everone has that option.The rendering plants have a useful purpose IF the animal dies of natural causes,or is put down.The probblem is the Breeding of to many horses, "Oh I want to raise a colt out of my favorte mare" The probblem with that is what do you do when you have 3 kids to raise and no real time for raising the colt. It turns into a brat.The money isn't there to have it trained.So now what? Or over production on large breeding farms.That is another issue.It is not a good life out in the wild.They eat well in the spring,but starve in the winter.So the debate rages on and on..

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Anonymous

Yes, there are cattle and horse "breeders" that just toss all the critters together in the pasture and whomever breeds who is what the "breeder" ends up with...no plan, just making animals. Such is akin to the "backyard puppy mills" that indiscriminately breed dogs for the low end pet stores and flea market sales...also, the irresponsible dog/cat people that don't have their critters spayed or neutered. ANYWAY...I knew a guy last year who had a couple of horses (one was a several year old filly that had not received any training and was a little wild)...another one of his had serious hoof and leg problems, but he was too cheap to have Vet or farrier work done when it should have been. SHAME! He was considering taking both to the horse sale barn (leading to slaughter)...the price for such animals was reportedly somewhere around 10 to 20 cents per pound...not sure what he finally did with the horses.



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Anonymous

I personally think there is a time and place for almost everything. Kill plants are here so that injured, crippled, or unusable horses ro be slaughtered so they can be fed ot the English and dogs. I think if a horse has been good all it's life or has produced good horses it's self it should be kept til death. We had an old grey mare last year die while she was 27 maybe and still had a foal she died of west nile. All three of her geldings are great horses. The one you can do almost anything with so when he's finally done with being broke he'll be a great kid horse. This old girl has earned her keep just like many older horses have most usually die in harsh whether or to unstoppable disease. It's just natures way. I guess I'm split on the Kill Plant issue.

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Anonymous

> I personally think there is a time
> and place for almost everything.
> Kill plants are here so that
> injured, crippled, or unusable
> horses ro be slaughtered so they
> can be fed ot the English and
> dogs. I think if a horse has been
> good all it's life or has produced
> good horses it's self it should be
> kept til death. We had an old grey
> mare last year die while she was
> 27 maybe and still had a foal she
> died of west nile. All three of
> her geldings are great horses. The
> one you can do almost anything
> with so when he's finally done
> with being broke he'll be a great
> kid horse. This old girl has
> earned her keep just like many
> older horses have most usually die
> in harsh whether or to unstoppable
> disease. It's just natures way. I
> guess I'm split on the Kill Plant
> issue.

Bill most people are! Thats why it's such a hot topic.Most people love horses, they will tell you that. But if you tell them they need to study about horses BEFORE they purchase one they won't.Why because there heart gets lost, and buying a horse becomes emotional.Then they wish they had learned before they made that purchase. By that time the horse shows that it knew more than the person.HMM! that becomes a diaster!! So we can,t sell the critter because it shows it's naughty.So to get rid of the probblem we are told about AUCTIONS!! So there willing to take a loss on what they spent,for the animal.Most times I see this its the I always wanted to raise a baby colt!!!

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Anonymous

> Bill most people are! Thats why
> it's such a hot topic.Most people
> love horses, they will tell you
> that. But if you tell them they
> need to study about horses BEFORE
> they purchase one they won't.Why
> because there heart gets lost, and
> buying a horse becomes
> emotional.Then they wish they had
> learned before they made that
> purchase. By that time the horse
> shows that it knew more than the
> person.HMM! that becomes a
> diaster!! So we can,t sell the
> critter because it shows it's
> naughty.So to get rid of the
> probblem we are told about
> AUCTIONS!! So there willing to
> take a loss on what they spent,for
> the animal.Most times I see this
> its the I always wanted to raise a
> baby colt!!!

Sorry Bill I meant to say Jake

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A

Anonymous

What we see a lot of is people who think a horse is like a dog or a cat and just have no place to keep one to begin with. Or they want to do the baby thing and then find out they do not have the time or money. Agree an old horse that is sound and healthy that has had a useful life should be turned out to pasture, but what about the thousands that are out there that no one wants that die a slow and long death because of neglect and plain ingorence. My oldest son is a farrier and you would not believe some of the things he sees in the way horses are tended to or should I say not tended to. To many people breed because they want that cute little colt and forget that it turns into that 1000 pound horse that requires a certian amount of care, responsiblty, and expense. I guess being raised in the country on a farm gives me a different outlook than a person who was raised in a different setting. Just hate to see animals suffer be it a horse, dog, cow or whatever.
 
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Anonymous

>This message is to all those confused folks out there who really don't understand how the "horse business really works. What we have is a system that has been in place since people had to ride or drive horses to get around. Yes, there is a lot of ignorance out there about horses, as there is about anything, but no one can change the cold hard facts. My business is buying the horses that no one thinks is good for anything anymore, not the old or crippled but the young (colts up to about 12 years) reconditioning and/or retraining them to make them useful again. What I want to know is do y'all want to do something for these salvageable animals or just sit and jaw about it. Politicking is well and good for politicians but since we shouldn't completely do away with the killers, they provide a useful service which if we make it illegal to slaughter horses in this country, the animals will be shipped across the border to be killed making them suffer even more. If anyone wants to help, E-mail me and instead of trying to change an unchangeable situation, let's get to work putting thse unwanted horses back into service. What we see a lot of is people who
> think a horse is like a dog or a
> cat and just have no place to keep
> one to begin with. Or they wa> do the baby thing and then find
> out they do not have the time or
> money. Agree an old horse that is
> sound and healthy that has had a
> useful life should be turned out
> to pasture, but what about the
> thousands that are out there that
> no one wants that die a slow and
> long death because of neglect and
> plain ingorence. My oldest son is
> a farrier and you would not
> believe some of the things he sees
> in the way horses are tended to or
> should I say not tended to. To
> many people breed because they
> want that cute little colt and
> forget that it turns into that
> 1000 pound horse that requires a
> certian amount of care,
> responsiblty, and expense. I guess
> being raised in the country on a
> farm gives me a different outlook
> than a person who was raised in a
> different setting. Just hate to
> see animals suffer be it a horse,
> dog, cow or whatever.



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A

Anonymous

Yes. Beth, also there are the "animal sanctuary" places which take old, injured, and/or neglected & abused animals to give them a good home to live out their lives.

In my opinion, the worst offenders of animal breeding (any breed or species) are those "puppy or other mills" that mass-produce animals for retail sale without regard to genetics or close inbreeding thereby producing present or future "defective" animals. The next worst offenders are the people that breed an animal so their children can "see the miracle of birth" and then after the rugrats see the birth and afterbirth, then the animal(s) are neglected or otherwise lost interest in...and more unwanted animals are dumped in the environment. Perhaps "mama and daddy" should make a new human baby and then let the kiddos watch mama in labor and see the human kid pop out in 9 months...no...that (in their minds) would be contributing to "overpopulation" and unwanted children...duh...what am I missing here in this logical reasoning????



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Anonymous

Beth,Many of us have been involved at one time or another.I rescused 3 horsrs after the sheriff removed them because the owners,left them with no food or water. This was a common pratcice,for the owners.There attitude was they can eat snow and a bale that weighed 40 lb should last 2 weeks.Well we had a warm wind and there was no snow.The hay was in a barn I guess they figgured that the horses could get it them selves. Well we removed the horses and put them in a pasture.food and water.I went arround and collected donations,for the hotses.Grain,dewormer brushes,etc Well the guy was cited and went to court you know what?? the judge gave the horses back to the owners!!!! Figgure that.. See When people get involved,What good dose it do..There are Laws and there are Laws.. Is it who you know or not?? Get the Picture??

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Anonymous

Beth, My hubby and kids and I do the same thing. We try to do it with the younger (3 or less) ones that the owner needs to get "rid" of quickly,,,usually for health reasons. I have a now 2 yr old overo Paint gelding that I bought at eight months old,,,both sire and maternal grandsire have superiors in HUS and WP and both have ROMs in trail, barrel racing, reining and points in halter and a few others. The guy had 65 horses to winter and needed to let go,,,350.00 later. He's staying. This year, same sale, got a fancy colored 2 yr old appy filly Reg. with excellent foundation bloodlines (and a pretty tail)for 250. At the same time, I brought home a pony that someone had abandoned at the auction after the owners told them they wouldnt sell it. Old healed fractured knee, cushings,,,but a real sweetie,,,gave her 30 very pleasant days before I had her put down to complications from having more worms than you can imagine. I also have a 4 yr old quarab that my neighbor's boarder's abused, then abandoned. Its taken 9 months to break her of biting, kicking,,,backing up quickly everytime you tried to walk up and having to keep the kids far away from her because she would at least threaten them with bodily harm. She is doing nicely now and will probably hang here too.

It would be nice to have the funds to do this more often,,,but horse sales in my neck of the woods (PA)suck right now with the lack of hay. I've advertised all over and have gotten two inquiries into the appy filly (and my 10 yr old daughter is breaking her,,she is that sweet!!),,,no lookers yet and I've never not sold a horse to the first looker!!!Good luck on your end.



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A

Anonymous

>Bil, Cindy and the unidentified respondee. I appreciate your trying to rescue horses from irresponsible owners; That can be a lesson in futility at times,I know, been there, done that, but I am still willing to do it with the proper authorities in attendance. What I do is haunt the local auctions looking for candidates, If a private party is buying, I don't interfere but if the killer buyer looks to be winning, I step in and buy it, they won't bid past a certain point.Another way is to let people know that you are willing to take unwanted anmals to "fix them up" and find someone who will appreciate them. What I am looking for is anyone who is willing to help with donations which will be returned to the person after the sale of the animal. We have the land and the knowledge but capital can be pretty tight especially since we pick up dogs, too. Thanks, Beth Beth, My hubby and kids and I do
> the same thing. We try to do it
> with the younger (3 or less) ones
> that the owner needs to get
> "rid" of
> quickly,,,usually for health
> reasons. I have a now 2 yr old
> overo Paint gelding that I bought
> at eight months old,,,both sire
> and maternal grandsire have
> superiors in HUS and WP and both
> have ROMs in trail, barrel racing,
> reining and points in halter and a
> few others. The guy had 65 horses
> to winter and needed to let
> go,,,350.00 later. He's staying.
> This year, same sale, got a fancy
> colored 2 yr old appy filly Reg.
> with excellent foundation
> bloodlines (and a pretty tail)for
> 250. At the same time, I brought
> home a pony that someone had
> abandoned at the auction after the
> owners told them they wouldnt sell
> it. Old healed fractured knee,
> cushings,,,but a real
> sweetie,,,gave her 30 very
> pleasant days before I had her put
> down to complications from having
> more worms than you can imagine. I
> also have a 4 yr old quarab that
> my neighbor's boarder's abused,
> then abandoned. Its taken 9 months
> to break her of biting,
> kicking,,,backing up quickly
> everytime you tried to walk up and
> having to keep the kids far away
> from her because she would at
> least threaten them with bodily
> harm. She is doing nicely now and
> will probably hang here too.

> It would be nice to have the funds
> to do this more often,,,but horse
> sales in my neck of the woods
> (PA)suck right now with the lack
> of hay. I've advertised all over
> and have gotten two inquiries into
> the appy filly (and my 10 yr old
> daughter is breaking her,,she is
> that sweet!!),,,no lookers yet and
> I've never not sold a horse to the
> first looker!!!Good luck on your
> end.



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A

Anonymous

> I know this is subject that a lot
> of people just do not want to talk
> about. I understand that the
> rendering plants have been forced
> to close because of all the
> "tree huggers so to
> speak" but what do you do
> with all the horses that are out
> there that are unsound,unfit or to
> old for use. I know someone will
> say make pets, give them to
> someone etc., but that is being
> tryed with dogs and cats now and
> look at the strays and animal
> shelters-overflowing. Is it not
> better to make "dogfood, Soap
> or whater" than to let
> animals suffer and die from
> neglect. Don't say they do not
> exist go to the local Saturday
> horse sales, the cripples, unfit
> and rejects are there by the 100's
> that now no one will buy. So my
> question is should the plants be
> allowed to remain open and do they
> serve a useful purpose?

THANKS GUYS AND GIRLS A GOOD DISCUSSION ON A STICKY SUBJECY. Personall I think the kill plants are needed and have a place. Some can and are resuced and that is GREAT but not all can and will be. My youngest son learned to ride on a gelding named LUCKY I bought off the kill truck for $250 they sold him to another to learn to ride on for $400. There is just to many out there to save so hence the kill plants.
 
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Anonymous

i've been looking for a good horse for my kids,so i answered an ad in the paper for rescue horses. the lady had some young sound horses at what i consider a resonable price,but the mares were bred to her stallion. good i thought, bonus package two for the price of one.then she told me that she bred so there would be less problems with the stud. so did i miss something! we saved the horses from slaughter(we think,we don't really know until they are at the slaughter plant)to add more horses to the "overpopulation" problem.it should be the individuals decision to do what they want with their animal.whether they bury it, trade it or eat it!my great grandpa and great uncle always said if it wasn't for horses they would of starved during w.w.1 & w.w.2 and that was meat sent over from the U.S.A.and lastly when did we as americans became so holy to tell people in other countries what the can and can't eat!!next thing you know you people will be telling me i can't eat the chickens i raise in my backyard because they're pets. not a means of eggs and meat!!> Yes. Beth, also there are the
> "animal sanctuary"
> places which take old, injured,
> and/or neglected & abused
> animals to give them a good home
> to live out their lives.

> In my opinion, the worst offenders
> of animal breeding (any breed or
> species) are those "puppy or
> other mills" that
> mass-produce animals for retail
> sale without regard to genetics or
> close inbreeding thereby producing
> present or future
> "defective" animals. The
> next worst offenders are the
> people that breed an animal so
> their children can "see the
> miracle of birth" and then
> after the rugrats see the birth
> and afterbirth, then the animal(s)
> are neglected or otherwise lost
> interest in...and more unwanted
> animals are dumped in the
> environment. Perhaps "mama
> and daddy" should make a new
> human baby and then let the kiddos
> watch mama in labor and see the
> human kid pop out in 9
> months...no...that (in their
> minds) would be contributing to
> "overpopulation" and
> unwanted children...duh...what am
> I missing here in this logical
> reasoning????



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A

Anonymous

hold on here, i thouht we were talking slaughter not neglect.my ? is if these people neglect their animals how about their kids? i hope they feed and water them!!for you rescue people if your offer a quality animal (register or grade)for sale, i'll be interested in buying one or two from you. > Beth,Many of us have been involved
> at one time or another.I rescused
> 3 horsrs after the sheriff removed
> them because the owners,left them
> with no food or water. This was a
> common pratcice,for the
> owners.There attitude was they can
> eat snow and a bale that weighed
> 40 lb should last 2 weeks.Well we
> had a warm wind and there was no
> snow.The hay was in a barn I guess
> they figgured that the horses
> could get it them selves. Well we
> removed the horses and put them in
> a pasture.food and water.I went
> arround and collected
> donations,for the
> hotses.Grain,dewormer brushes,etc
> Well the guy was cited and went to
> court you know what?? the judge
> gave the horses back to the
> owners!!!! Figgure that.. See When
> people get involved,What good dose
> it do..There are Laws and there
> are Laws.. Is it who you know or
> not?? Get the Picture??



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A

Anonymous

> hold on here, i thouht we were
> talking slaughter not neglect.my ?
> is if these people neglect their
> animals how about their kids? i
> hope they feed and water them!!for
> you rescue people if your offer a
> quality animal (register or
> grade)for sale, i'll be interested
> in buying one or two from you.
> > Beth,Many of us have been
> involved

Have you a bone to pick or what??? I AM NOT INTO THE RESCUE BUSNIESS OR THE SLAUGHTER BUSNIESS!!!! OK???

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Anonymous

NO!!!!!!!!BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU DO!!!!!!!> Have you a bone to pick or what???
> I AM NOT INTO THE RESCUE BUSNIESS
> OR THE SLAUGHTER BUSNIESS!!!!
> OK???



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Anonymous

> NO!!!!!!!!BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU
> DO!!!!!!!> Have you a bone to
> pick or what???

MD, Let me back up on this poast ok?? 1st it sounded as if you were assuming I was a Jerk for rescueing some horses.Thats how I took it. I don't rescue horses at all. I train people with horses, I teach them how to care propperly for these noble animals.I spend alot of time where I live training them. You see films on training horses,but no one teaches people. While I am not thrilled with slaughter houses. I am also realistic enfough to know that after some people finish with their horses, that may be the best thing that ever happened to the horse.I have come accross my share of abused horses.Its amaseing to me it is agenst the law to beat your wife, but you can go out to the barn and take a tow chain to the horse.By then there so screwed up to retrain with love and kindness.It won,t work..I know I spent 30+ years as a pro trainer. The people I became involved with could't feed ther kids much less feed the animals.The state charged 5000.00$ to remove them and they don't have a compound for animals.I had a pasture open. With hay and water.So I sugested I would hold them until the judge would deside there fate. He gave them back to the owners.They were not bad people just not prepaired for our severe winters.in other words they got caught with there pants down.Where I live we are one of the only places left in the US where there is people living without power.water.and phones.Land is cheep and folks move in with high hopes and get wiped out in a winter.. Here you face reality or you won't survive.. I appoligize if I came down hard,but beassured I work hard and standby these animals,There God's creatures and its our job to love them and care for them.Often times be there voice for them..Cindy

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